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Author Topic: WHY I QUIT MHFM BY J. Austin  (Read 2289 times)

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Anonymous

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Re: WHY I QUIT MHFM BY J. Austin
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2019, 06:49:50 AM »
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  • I've watched parts of them, and I seriously have a hard time believing they represent the Orthodox fairly.

    Like I get (and I agree with) the criticisms regarding their arbitrarily picking ecunemical councils, and the problems with a visible church and no visible leader.  I get all that.

    But while I don't fully understand the Essence/Energies distinction, I have serious questions about whether the Dimonds are fairly representing it.  I seriously have a hard time believing they are.
    You are wise.  The Dimond Brothers are notorious for deceitful debate tactics and proof-text theology.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: WHY I QUIT MHFM BY J. Austin
    « Reply #46 on: May 08, 2019, 02:23:01 PM »
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  • You are wise.  The Dimond Brothers are notorious for deceitful debate tactics and proof-text theology.
    Ah yes classic, the one who's dodged every argument so far pops back in to accuse others of deceitful debate tactics. Sod off, troll. 


    Anonymous

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    Re: WHY I QUIT MHFM BY J. Austin
    « Reply #47 on: May 08, 2019, 02:27:01 PM »
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  • Ah yes classic, the one who's dodged every argument so far pops back in to accuse others of deceitful debate tactics. Sod off, troll.
    Couldn't both be true though?

    It could be true, simultaneously, that the Eastern Orthodox have irrepairable problems, and yet the Dimonds still do strawman them.

    Right?

    I try not to strawman anyone's position.  Sometimes I fail, but that is my goal.

    Online ByzCat3000

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    Re: WHY I QUIT MHFM BY J. Austin
    « Reply #48 on: May 08, 2019, 02:31:01 PM »
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  • Above was me.  Keep forgetting the whole "not annonymous" button.  

    Forlorn, playing devil's advocate, why doesn't widespread uncertainty both on Vatican II's status as an infallible council and the past 6 pontificates (more the former than the latter, but really both on this forum anyway) not create similar epistemic problems for Rome that we accuse the Orthodox of?  I have some thoughts myself, but I wanted to hear someone else's thoughts, and you seem at least reasonably familiar with Orthodoxy.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: WHY I QUIT MHFM BY J. Austin
    « Reply #49 on: May 08, 2019, 03:04:12 PM »
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  • Above was me.  Keep forgetting the whole "not annonymous" button.  

    Forlorn, playing devil's advocate, why doesn't widespread uncertainty both on Vatican II's status as an infallible council and the past 6 pontificates (more the former than the latter, but really both on this forum anyway) not create similar epistemic problems for Rome that we accuse the Orthodox of?  I have some thoughts myself, but I wanted to hear someone else's thoughts, and you seem at least reasonably familiar with Orthodoxy.
    It does, but as it happens I'm not on an Orthodox forum trying to proselytise and telling them they can't possibly make any valid arguments against Catholicism, while absolutely ignoring every argument they do make. The Orthodox in this thread have shown themselves to be of malicious disposition by their absolute refusal to engage in any sort of debate when they were the ones who opened the debate in the first place. They're hypocrites who've just in this thread been guilty of everything they've accused the Dimonds of, and much worse. And while I know you're saying the Dimonds probably misrepresented some things in good faith, they simply are not, as they've shown by their complete ignorance of everything I've said as well as Jan Dyer blatantly lying about what the Dimonds' said. If they'd actually like to have an honest debate I'd be happy to, but as you can see through this thread they've been completely unwilling to have one. But instead they just dodge the subject and call me "hellish" and insist I must accept the error-filled, substance-less and hypocritical video in the OP without them giving any defence of it whatsoever because they assure me the author's honest and that means he must be correct.

    Regardless, the Crisis while nigh on impossible to fully explain, is still a problem to a much lesser degree than Orthodoxy's complete inability to defend any of it's dogma. Due to their complete inability to decide what makes councils ecumenical or not, they cannot without arbitrariness say that they know any of their dogma or beliefs for certain. They cannot defend or explain how the Orthodox Church teaches on moral issues, and they just sidestep the issue with "you and your priest can decide"(read: do whatever your modernist, liberal morals tell you). The reason they've survived this long is because they simply sidestep all the issues their lack of leadership(and a sensible, replacement for it) has given them - like not having a single ecumenical council in the last thousand years, letting all their bishops decide on moral issues for themselves as if multiple moral truths can exist, etc. We can see how precarious this whole system is in the recent Moscow-Constantinople schism, where the largest Orthodox sub-church broke away over a disagreement regarding autocephaly, the second such schism they've had in the last 20 or so years, because they have no coherent teachings or laws on the authority of their ecumenical patriarch and the other patriarchs.

    Also whatever you think about the Dimonds their new video on the Filioque utterly demolishes the Orthodox position extensively using quotes from eastern Church Fathers. 


    Anonymous

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    Re: WHY I QUIT MHFM BY J. Austin
    « Reply #50 on: May 08, 2019, 03:10:39 PM »
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  • I have had my own anti-Catholic brother try and jam Jay Dyer BS down my throat for nigh on a year now. So I think I have a pretty decent understanding I think of the energy/essence argument and Palamas teaching. 


    The Dimond's have done an admirable job of refuting the EO with history itself. The quote from Bessario in the latest video was quite good. I think aside from the theological debate, history is enough to show the contradictions. The previous MHFM video showed an EO priest admit on video that the EO did not embrace the Palamas doctrine until the 15th century. Hilarious when you consider that the EO constantly attack the RC's for "doctrinal development" when this clearly shows that they themselves didn't just develop doctrine, they invented it, despite Eastern fathers themselves denying said E/E teachings. 


     

    Anonymous

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    Re: WHY I QUIT MHFM BY J. Austin
    « Reply #51 on: May 10, 2019, 07:27:05 PM »
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  • I have had my own anti-Catholic brother try and jam Jay Dyer BS down my throat for nigh on a year now. So I think I have a pretty decent understanding I think of the energy/essence argument and Palamas teaching.


    The Dimond's have done an admirable job of refuting the EO with history itself. The quote from Bessario in the latest video was quite good. I think aside from the theological debate, history is enough to show the contradictions. The previous MHFM video showed an EO priest admit on video that the EO did not embrace the Palamas doctrine until the 15th century. Hilarious when you consider that the EO constantly attack the RC's for "doctrinal development" when this clearly shows that they themselves didn't just develop doctrine, they invented it, despite Eastern fathers themselves denying said E/E teachings.


     
    This man responded to the Dimond vid... 

     

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