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Author Topic: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?  (Read 1511 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
« on: November 15, 2020, 04:25:54 AM »
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  • In another thread, some said that the MHFM is the only trad group that attempts converting others to trad. Catholciism. Why are they the only ones?


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #1 on: November 15, 2020, 05:50:09 AM »
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  • So you want trads to go out and try to convert non-Catholics? 

    Do you know why traditionalists exist in the first place? Well, the SSPX, for example, wasn't started in order to convert protestants and other non-Catholics to the Faith. It was started so that in the wake of the Modernists taking over the Church, the traditional sacraments would be perpetually safe. And so that Catholics would have a place to go to receive the traditional sacraments. The other reason, which is also very important, is to not to leave the Modernists in Rome in peace, so that they would have free rein to destroy the Church. Historically, this is what the trad movement has consisted of. 

    Are you really not aware of this?




    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #2 on: November 15, 2020, 09:09:34 AM »
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  • There's a glaring oversight in your calculations.

    You're treating "conversions" like it's a strategic thing only, like a real-time strategy game.

    Put in X dollars, put up this or that building in this area, give it more "missionary coverage", and get 22 converts per month. Build a second building nearby, and you can increase that to 30 converts per month! Or if you unlock this or that upgrade, you can get it up to 43 converts per month! Spend some resources on advertising, and increase your converts/month even further.

    The first player to get 100,000 adherents to his religion wins!

    Sounds like an interesting real time strategy game, but that isn't how real-life conversion works.

    Catholicism is hard. Let me rephrase: REAL Catholicism is hard. Today we call it "Traditional Catholicism" but that is really the only kind. Non-trads are Catholic (or not) based on how much they are essentially Trad Catholic and don't know it. You either have The Faith or you don't. The beliefs and moral practices of Trads aren't just a quirky "trad" thing -- those are the fundamentals of the Faith itself. That's what Tradition is all about -- preserving the Faith itself. It's not about a Latin or medieval fetish.

    There are many obstacles to a person accepting the Faith -- which ultimately is a gift/grace from God! Joining false religions doesn't take grace from God. It's a purely human equation: is the pastor nice, is the congregation nice, is it a fun social club, is the pastor entertaining and/or interesting, is there good camaraderie and potlucks, good business contacts, great building, sound system, good outreach programs, good for my image, benefits to my family such as daycare and private school, etc.

    Joining the Catholic Faith requires grace from God. You have to accept all the dogmas (including the hard ones! in-person confession, the Real Presence) and the difficult moral standards (no birth control is a big one, followed closely by NO DIVORCE). The Sixth Commandment in general (including prohibition on self-abuse and porn) has probably sent more Catholics packing than any other Commandment -- Our Lady said so at Fatima.

    WHICH BRINGS US TO MY CONCLUSION AND MAIN POINT:

    Maybe the world is just too far gone to convert? Our Lord did suggest that towards the end of the world, Faith would be rare.  satan hasn't contented himself lately by just attacking religion or dogmas -- the buildings of the Faith. He has attacked the very foundations -- truth, reason, reality, THE NATURAL LAW. When the foundations are in ruins, you can't build (supernatural level) on top of that. How can you convince someone that the Catholic Faith is the one true religion, when they don't believe in objective truth anymore?

    So you can't just point at the sad results and conclude "Trads aren't doing their job". That is not fair.

    Was Noe to blame when the world around HIM was so wicked and lost? Come on, Noe, can't you work up a bit of zeal?! Being all pious with your "siege mentality", hiding in your bunker, while the whole world literally goes to hell? Not very charitable and apostolic of you!

    I'm being facetious, but I hope you get my point.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #3 on: November 15, 2020, 09:28:23 AM »
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  • You way overestimate the number of people OF GOOD WILL who would be interested in the Catholic Faith if it were presented to them.

    The fact is, the majority of men are SIMPLY NOT INTERESTED.

    They scoff at our Faith, especially the moral obligations. If you came right out with the obligations: perfect chastity/continence before marriage, no passionate kissing before marriage, no self-abuse or porn, and marriage can't be dissolved: if your spouse leaves you, even if you're the victim, you must be single for life or until that spouse dies. No remarriage.

    Yeah, go out and "sell" that. To be incredibly realistic and blunt, it takes a special grace from God to say, "SIGN ME UP!"
    It's not a purely human endeavor, like advertising a product or a brand.

    Conversions are earned by the Cross -- but not just Christ's suffering. By our suffering and prayers in union with those of Christ. Read "The Soul of the Apostolate". The price of a soul is blood. Saints would scourge themselves to blood, pray all night long, etc. to make conversions.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #4 on: November 15, 2020, 09:42:05 AM »
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  • St. John, chapter 6:

    [41] The Jєωs therefore murmured at him, because he had said: I am the living bread which came down from heaven. [42] And they said: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he, I came down from heaven? [43] Jesus therefore answered, and said to them: Murmur not among yourselves. [44] No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him (1); and I will raise him up in the last day.

    (1) "Draw him": Not by compulsion, nor by laying the free will under any necessity, but by the strong and sweet motions of his heavenly grace.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #5 on: November 15, 2020, 10:29:24 AM »
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  • Converting non-Catholics becomes borderline impossible when we can't even convert the pope.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #6 on: November 15, 2020, 01:10:42 PM »
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  • Quote
    You're treating "conversions" like it's a strategic thing only, like a real-time strategy game.

    Exactly.  A conversion does not happen because of marketing, or a catchy commercial tune, or a fancy slogan.  This kind of stuff works for protestantism, because what they are "selling" is superficial and the "easy way" to salvation. 
    .
    Every protestant who has a REAL conversion to catholicism (i.e. they were of good will and trying to find the true religion) admit that they changed churches (i.e. get tired of the product) every 4-5 years.  And the typical protestant goes to 10+ churches/pastors in an entire life.  And everytime a protestant changes churches, the rules change, the focus changes, the "spirituality" changes.  That's why they change; for something new.  Because the original "product" didn't satisfy.
    .
    Conclusion:  Protestants don't evangelize and convert, because no one stays at any of their churches long enough.  Their church members are simply "fans" of a pastor or "disciple-ship" group.  When they get tired of it, they leave.  They treat churches like most people treat the latest diet fade.  "I'll keep trying new things til something fits."  But those that stay in Protestantism never find a fit because it's not from God.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #7 on: November 15, 2020, 01:42:06 PM »
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  • Quote
    Why Don't Trads Evangelize and Convert?

    At my SSPX chapel the trads are few, like maybe 10% of the congregation, so we are too busy trying to convert the mass "attendees" to live the Catholic faith,  and not just attend mass on Sundays for 1 hour.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #8 on: November 15, 2020, 05:11:31 PM »
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  • The fact is, the majority of men are SIMPLY NOT INTERESTED.
    This!  And in the very few cases a person shows some interest, he generally realizes that traditional Catholicism must be a crok once he starts looking at the "pope".  And in traditional Catholic circles, it's the R&R folks who really get in the way to converting people to the Catholic faith.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #9 on: November 15, 2020, 05:42:05 PM »
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  • Converting non-Catholics becomes borderline impossible when we can't even convert the pope.
    :facepalm:
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #10 on: November 15, 2020, 05:46:51 PM »
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  • At my SSPX chapel the trads are few, like maybe 10% of the congregation, so we are too busy trying to convert the mass "attendees" to live the Catholic faith,  and not just attend mass on Sundays for 1 hour.

    What are you referring to? How are they not "living the faith"?


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #11 on: November 15, 2020, 05:57:10 PM »
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  • What are you referring to? How are they not "living the faith"?
    See what I wrote (the OP and Reply #2) in my thread - https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/how-catholics-must-live-in-this-world/msg721916/#msg721916  
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #12 on: November 15, 2020, 06:17:29 PM »
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  • This!  And in the very few cases a person shows some interest, he generally realizes that traditional Catholicism must be a crok once he starts looking at the "pope".  And in traditional Catholic circles, it's the R&R folks who really get in the way to converting people to the Catholic faith.
    Probably better to convert them to Sedeism, since it's a form of Catholicism without Pope. The pope thing is an issue for some prots, so Sedeism is an easy out for them. 

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #13 on: November 16, 2020, 06:29:09 AM »
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  • Probably better to convert them to Sedeism, since it's a form of Catholicism without Pope. The pope thing is an issue for some prots, so Sedeism is an easy out for them.
    The problem here is that "Sedeism" isn't a form of Catholicism without a pope as sedevacantists are very devoted to the Catholic popes throughout history.  So if someone has "an issue" with the "pope thing", sedevacantism doesn't solve the "problem".  It seems that I've known more Protestant "converts" to Conciliarism because they can claim to be "Catholics in good standing" without actually chaning their faith.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why don't trads evangelize and convert?
    « Reply #14 on: November 16, 2020, 07:42:56 AM »
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    And in traditional Catholic circles, it's the R&R folks who really get in the way to converting people to the Catholic faith.
    Great. Well in my experience, it's sedevacantism that gets in the way of converting people to the Catholic Faith. Especially the harsh, toxic trad "bitterness" that many (not all) sedes exude. You know, the Dimond Brothers fans.
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