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Author Topic: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?  (Read 3454 times)

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Anonymous

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Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2017, 03:18:44 PM »
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  • St. Catherine of Siena was part of a HUGE family. Were her parents wicked?
    Not wicked, but her mother was vain, obsessed with making St. Catherine dye her hair and attract a mate, and she even encouraged St. Catherine's married sister, who died shortly thereafter, to inspire vanity in St. Catherine.

    this is Puritanism with a Catholic veneer. You can always recognize it by the primary idea: that sex is something bad, something dirty, something to be avoided for its own sake.
    However, coitus "for its own sake" is lust and a sign of the contraceptive mentality; within marriage, such coitus is at least a venial sin.
    Procreation certainly is good, but coitus is this post-lapsarian world is always accompanied by concupiscence, which is evil and which must be excused by the marriage goods; see St. Thomas's article "Whether certain blessings are necessary in order to excuse marriage?"

    Next, the OP sounds like a Manichean!  The Manicheans argued exactly as the OP did, claiming the flesh evil, and therefore the marital union to be a great evil, enslaving souls to the destitution of the flesh.  But this is an error that was overcome nearly two thousand years ago by St. Augustine.
    St. Augustine wrote about concupiscence in coitus (quotes from here):
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    So let good spouses use the evil of concupiscence well, just as a wise man uses an imprudent servant for good tasks.

    I hold that to use lust is not always a sin, because to use evil well is not a sin.

    As for the warfare experienced by chaste persons, whether celibate or married, we assert that there could have been no such thing [as lust] in paradise before sin. Marriage is still the same, but in begetting children nothing evil would then have been used; now the evil of concupiscence is used well.

    This evil is used well by faithful spouses.

    As to children being a hindrance to the spiritual life, the world is a hindrance to the spiritual life.
    And marriage is a tie to the world; therefore, it is a hindrance to the spiritual life. St. Thomas writes (Whether, in this life, perfection consists in the observance of the commandments or of the counsels?):
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    the counsels are directed to the removal of things that hinder the act of charity, and yet are not contrary to charity, such as marriage, the occupation of worldly business, and so forth.
    How do you understand 1 Cor. 7:33: "he that is with a wife is solicitous for the things of the world: how he may please his wife. And he is divided."?

    God also taught, "Be fruitful and multiply."
    But that is no longer binding under the New Law; cf. St. Thomas: "Whether matrimony still comes under a precept?" Nowhere do you see in the New Testament God saying that people should have children; He concedes that they may marry lest they fall into greater evils (1 Cor. 7:9: "For it is better to marry than to be burnt.").

    Who's being a Puritan here?  :confused:
    The Puritans are called that because they thought they were pure from papolatry.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #31 on: November 16, 2017, 03:03:21 PM »
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  • False teachers such as Paul Ehrlich beginning in the 1960's encouraged Americans to reduce their births because of the danger of over population.
    St. Thomas argued that the earth today is sufficiently populated (Summa Theologica suppl. q. 41 a. 2 ad 1):
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    [The precept to be fruitful and multiply] is not binding on each individual…except at that [Old Testament] time when the paucity of men required each one to betake himself to the begetting of children.
    (cf. Gen. 6:13: "…the earth is filled…")


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #32 on: November 16, 2017, 03:12:55 PM »
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  • St. Thomas argued that the earth today is sufficiently populated

    >> Prophecy? Regardless, how does it stay that way?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #33 on: November 16, 2017, 08:16:41 PM »
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  • St. Thomas argued that the earth today is sufficiently populated (Summa Theologica suppl. q. 41 a. 2 ad 1):(cf. Gen. 6:13: "…the earth is filled…")
    13 He said to Noe: The end of all flesh is come before me, the earth is filled with iniquity through them, and I will destroy them with the earth.

    Nothing here about "sufficiently populated".

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #34 on: November 17, 2017, 12:54:15 AM »
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  • 13 He said to Noe: The end of all flesh is come before me, the earth is filled with iniquity through them, and I will destroy them with the earth.

    Nothing here about "sufficiently populated".
    Suffice it to say, this OP and thread is pushing up daisies, either from simple reasoning or, as that quoted is pointing out, from brute fact. 
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #35 on: November 17, 2017, 08:39:22 AM »
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  • St. Thomas argued that the earth today is sufficiently populated (Summa Theologica suppl. q. 41 a. 2 ad 1):(cf. Gen. 6:13: "…the earth is filled…")

    Yes and no.  It's up to GOD to determine whether it's sufficiently populated.  In other words, if God determines that He wills another soul to come into existence, then the earth is not sufficiently populated ... it's missing a certain individual.  While I haven't looked up this passage, most likely St. Thomas was answering an objection against celibacy.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #36 on: June 14, 2019, 04:44:39 PM »
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  • Although St. Thomas says, discussing the marriage debt (objection 2 of q. 64 a. 2), that "even for married people it is better to be continent than to make use of marriage," that doesn't mean the lesser good of biological generation is in itself shameful; it can be entirely without sin in marriage.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #37 on: June 15, 2019, 12:50:52 AM »
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  • Quote
    One of my favorite things taught in a private revelation comes from Anne Catherine Emmerich. I was told about this and did not read it from the source myself. But she claimed that the Blessed Mother's parents did not have normal relations when Our Lady was conceived but that they only hugged and embraced and that was all but somehow Our Lady was conceived and her mother became pregnant in this way. Then it was said that before the fall this was how all children were supposed to be conceived and that what we now see as normal intercourse was only a corruption that was a curse of Adam's sin and was not the original intention of God in his creation.

    Of course the reaction to this was that Anne Catherine Emmerich's idea was crazy and perhaps it was not from her but from her ghostwriter who they say changed her revelations when he wrote them down, but nevertheless I was intrigued.

    Is this a standard Catholic belief?  I've never heard that one before.


    Anonymous

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #38 on: June 15, 2019, 01:00:26 AM »
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  • Is this a standard Catholic belief?  I've never heard that one before.
    No. Unless you use an odd definition for "standard", it's not a standard Catholic belief.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #39 on: June 15, 2019, 02:12:56 AM »
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  • It is not a Catholic belief at all.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #40 on: June 15, 2019, 09:15:43 PM »
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  • The size of your family is for God to decide.  

    Only those who sin by not submitting themselves to his will should feel ashamed.  


    Offline 800 Cruiser

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #41 on: June 16, 2019, 03:22:21 PM »
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  • Interesting thread here. 
    The answer seems pretty simple and straightforward to me:  Because God told us to. 

    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #42 on: June 16, 2019, 06:07:54 PM »
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  • Interesting thread here.
    The answer seems pretty simple and straightforward to me:  Because God told us to.
    Exactly God made marriage and he calls us to welcome every child he blesses us with. 
    We sin and should feel shame when we do not accept his planning of our family. 

    Anonymous

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #43 on: July 10, 2019, 12:16:47 AM »
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  • Be fruitful and multiply!

    Anonymous

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    Re: Why aren't Catholics ashamed of having large families?
    « Reply #44 on: July 10, 2019, 09:14:13 AM »
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  • Exactly God made marriage and he calls us to welcome every child he blesses us with.
    We sin and should feel shame when we do not accept his planning of our family.
    Exactly what I was going to say!  :applause:

     

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