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Author Topic: Who was the first bad pope recently?  (Read 2303 times)

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Who was the first bad pope recently?
« on: August 30, 2013, 02:09:23 PM »
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  • Who was the first in the line of conciliar bad popes (or if you are a sedevacantist, antipopes)?

    Was it Pope Pius XII?
    John XXIII?
    or Paul VI?


    Offline Frances

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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #1 on: August 30, 2013, 03:14:50 PM »
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  • The present "Pope" Francis.  As Rome deteriorates, the popes get worse.  The final bad pope wI'll be the anti-Christ.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #2 on: August 30, 2013, 03:22:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    The final bad pope wI'll be the anti-Christ.

    So you think the Anti-Christ will be a pope or anti-pope? That is interesting.

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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #3 on: August 30, 2013, 03:32:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Frances
    The final bad pope wI'll be the anti-Christ.

    So you think the Anti-Christ will be a pope or anti-pope? That is interesting.


    Here's my take, for what it's worth:

    "Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God [the Vatican], shewing himself as if he were God ["Sweet Christ on earth," i.e., the "Pope"].
    --2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

    This is Charlemagne. I forgot to check the box.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #4 on: August 30, 2013, 05:26:32 PM »
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  • Pius XII wasn't a bad pope, though the reforms that occurred toward the end of his reign were unfortunate, and only in hindsight can we see how they were the preliminary reforms leading to the culmination of the modernist revolution at VII and the New Mass.

    I would say John XXIII.  Whether your point of view is that he had malicious intent and was pro-actively working to destroy the Church, or he was simply too naive and jolly for the job, his patronizing and defense of modernists and his convocation of VII were instrumental in the destruction of Our Holy Mother Church.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #5 on: August 30, 2013, 10:23:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Who was the first in the line of conciliar bad popes (or if you are a sedevacantist, antipopes)?

    Was it Pope Pius XII?


    Seriously!? He defined the dogma of the Assumption!

    Only Priests of the time appreciated the Pope's liturgical reforms.

    You try living the life of a Parish Priest (offering Masses and administering the Sacraments; visiting the aged and infirm, as well as hospitals, penitentiaries, etc.) and saying the outdated rubrics.

    There was a similar reaction to when St. Pius X made a very radical change in the old Roman Psalter. Why not complain about those reforms?

    If your beef is because of his political strategies regarding Europe, then that's different... then you would be criticizing him as a Head of State, as a diplomat, etc., but not as Pope, the Vicar of Christ.

    Offline Geremia

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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 09:55:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Frances
    The final bad pope wI'll be the anti-Christ.

    So you think the Anti-Christ will be a pope or anti-pope? That is interesting.
    TradiBooks's The Pope and The Antichrist by Card. Manning is Temporal Power of the Vicar of Christ's 2nd part (4 lectures), "The Perpetual Conflict of the Vicar of Christ", pp. 81-173.

    His argument in Lect. 1 for why the Antichrist come from within the Catholic Church is simple:
    Quote
    We have here a prophecy … of a [spiritual*] revolt, which shall precede the second coming of our Lord … The authority, then, from which the revolt is to take place is that of the kingdom of God on earth, prophesied by Daniel as the kingdom which the God of heaven should set up … in other words, the one and universal Church, founded by our Divine Lord, and spread by His Apostles throughout the world. In this one only kingdom was deposited the true and supernatural pure theism, or knowledge of God, and the true and only faith of God incarnate, with the doctrines and laws of grace. This, then, is the authority from which the revolt is to be made, be that revolt what it may.
    [*"St. Jerome, with some others, interprets this revolt to be the rebellion of the nations or provinces against the Roman Empire. … They have revolted, and no manifestation has appeared." Thus, the revolt is spiritual, not temporal.]
    "Schism", "the rejection of the office and presence of the Holy Ghost", and "the denial of the Incarnation" are the revolt's 3 signs.

    So, it is likely the Antichrist will be a "pope."
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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 10:43:22 PM »
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  • John XXIII.


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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #8 on: October 20, 2013, 11:01:49 AM »
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  • Pope Pius XII was the last pope. Period.

    John XXIII, Paul VI, etc. weren't simply bad "popes." There weren't popes at all and neither is the apostate Bergolio.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #9 on: October 20, 2013, 08:37:32 PM »
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    The final bad pope will be the anti-Christ.


    No, the anti-Christ will be a Zionist Jєω who shall consolidate his temporal power in the Middle East and seduce the world in the political sphere, whilst his false prophet as either an anti-Pope or pseudo-Pope will attempt to destroy the Roman Church and pervert all Christendom: when the false prophet makes the false Christians adore the anti-Christ, then the anti-Christ will take on both temporal and spiritual power over both the East and West.

    The common opinion of the Fathers has been that the anti-Christ will be a Jєω, an anti-Pope will be his false prophet. Consult Fr. Berry's The Apocalypse of St. John and Ven. Holzhauser's commentary on the Apocalypse.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #10 on: October 21, 2013, 05:06:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Frances
    The final bad pope wI'll be the anti-Christ.

    So you think the Anti-Christ will be a pope or anti-pope? That is interesting.

    The Catholic Encyclopaedia article on the anti-Christ mentions that St. Bernard and others believed that the only way Anti-Christ could deceive "if it were possible, even the elect"(Math. 24:24) is by becoming an Anti-Pope.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #11 on: October 21, 2013, 08:50:53 AM »
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  • I would need to see what St. Bernard actually wrote.

    Rev. Fr. Cornelius à Lapide, in his commentary on the Apocalypse of St. John, rejects the possibility that the anti-Christ is to be identified with a Roman Pontiff because at that time the Protestant heretics were derogating from the dignity of the Roman Pontiff and vituperating him by saying he was the anti-Christ and the Roman Church was the harlot who St. John recorded in chapter xvii. of the Apocalypse. The editors of his works have pointed this out and one edition has samplings from other commentators in the prefatory, such as texts, or summaries thereof, by Ven. Holzhauser.

    Ven. Rev. Fr. Bartholomew Holzhauser in his famous commentary upon the Apocalypse of St. John [Venerabilis servi Dei Bartholomaei Holzhauser, Instituti Clericorum juxta SS. Canones in Germania restauratoris, Interpretatio in Apocalypsin (Vindobonae [Vienna]: Typis Congregationis Mechitharisticae, 1850)] held that Apoc. cap. xiii. 11-18 is to be interpreted as pertaining to the turpidissimo et sceletissimo idolo Antipapa: the second beast shall be an anti-Pope who shall persecute the Latin Occident and nearly destroy it, whilst the anti-Christ persecutes the Orient and seeks to control Jerusalem.

    Here is a very loose transliteration of a small portion of the pertinent text:

    Quote
    Regarding the most disgraceful and iniquitous idolater, the anti-Pope, who shall waste the Western Church, and shall make it adore the first beast.

    Cap. XIII. v. 11-18

    And I saw another beast coming up from the earth: and he had two horns, like to a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. The beast coming up from the earth is the false Prophet, and the herald of the son of perdition […] he shall be an apostate Christian and rise forth secretly and fraudulently, and shall congregate the Jєωs, who in those days shall be exceedingly multiplied everywhere, and shall adhere unto him in one spirit, and shall enter unto the sacerdotal land [the Roman Church] with a great army, and shall occupy the See of Peter, and shall slay the latest Pontiff, the successor of Peter, and shall pour forth the blood of Christians, especially those who rule [as Prelates], like unto the water round about Jerusalem, and shall scatter the Church throughout the desert, and in the wildernesses, and forests, and mountains, and in the rocky caves, for the Shepherd shall be stricken and the sheep scattered; it shall be like unto the day of the Passion of Christ, wherein the Church was seen to be beheld unto the utmost desolation, when it said: for it is written, I shall strike the Shepherd and the sheep shall be scattered; then the Latin Church shall be wasted, and there shall be a total departure from the faith, and the son of the perdition shall be revealed by this false Prophet, as if he would be Christ. […]


    The aforementioned Rev. Fr. Berry adds in his own commentary that the anti-Christ would avail himself of Zionism to achieve this end. So, the anti-Christ through the Zionists shall take temporal primacy in the Orient and shall thence prepare to subjugate the Occident, the Roman Church having been already devastated by the anti-Pope.

    The Holy Roman Empire has been obliterated and Christian Europe is but a memory: the Zionists and internationalists have advanced to take on the Orient as seen in the latest campaigns against the anti-Zionist nations in the Middle East. Already the American Republic is a now more than ever a disgraceful whore to Israel, thanks now to neo-socialist sociopathic Obama-drama.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

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    Who was the first bad pope recently?
    « Reply #12 on: October 25, 2013, 11:51:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: Hobbledehoy
    I would need to see what St. Bernard actually wrote.


     :confused1:

    Hobbles prefers to work with actual sources?  That takes all the fun out of making things up out of thin air!

     :roll-laugh2: