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Author Topic: Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?  (Read 6059 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:28:06 PM »
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  • What’s the problem with FSSP Masses?  I can't figure it out.
    I only attend traditional Masses. Over the years I’ve attended independent, CMRI, SSPX and FSSP chapels.  All the Masses were done properly and just about identically.  I've observed FSSP priests in 4 different geographical locations.  They are as faithful to the Mass and tradition as any of the others. Same hardline sermons, good solid confessors, etc.  I don’t understand why they are dismissed, like they don't even exist.
    Is it the so called questionable ordinations?  I thought there was a thread here that debunked that.  
    If so, how are their Masses not traditional enough?
    They can't be red lighted, since their structure and Mass is identical to SSPX, right?
    Are they unfairly smeared due to their association with Rome?
    I wish they didn't use 62 rubrics, but the SSPX do also and both still incorporate earlier rubrics like 2 confiteors.

    Thanks for your input.  

    **I prefer to post anonymously due to flamers. I'm steeled for sedevacantist sarcasm in response to my question even though I've assisted at CMRI Masses in the past but now concerned about jurisdiction.




    Änσnymσus

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #1 on: February 06, 2015, 01:30:28 PM »
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  • There is nothing with wrong with the FSSP Masses. They are still valid and there are many orthodox, conservative priests there.


    Offline Matthew

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #2 on: February 06, 2015, 01:43:31 PM »
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  • The FSSP is a compromised institution; that is the problem.

    Over time, you and your family will come to get more comfortable with Vatican II. It will slowly cease to be the horrible monster THAT IT ACTUALLY IS.

    You will certainly come to forget that the Church is in a horrible Crisis. After all, if you can have your Latin Mass every Sunday with the permission of Rome, what's all the fuss about? Those "Traditionalists" -- what's their problem?

    The fact is that Vatican II and its aftermath has caused the greatest loss of souls since the Protestant Revolt in the 1500's -- possibly worse. I don't think we can criticize or hate Vatican II enough.

    Yes, the FSSP has a valid Mass, assuming the ordinations of the priests are valid (that's not exactly a non-issue, but it's a topic for another post). I would only go there if I had *no* other options.

    Jurisdiction is not an issue. The Church supplies jurisdiction for the needs of the Faithful, including the sacraments of confession and matrimony.

    But many people -- mostly those who aren't deep thinkers -- forget or don't realize that ideas are powerful, and have practical results. Ideas (including doctrine) ARE important. Doctrine is of paramount importance.

    Just look around at the congregation at an Indult chapel and tell me if the people aren't more liberal.

    Americans especially tend to be anti-intellectual, focusing on the practical and pragmatic to the point they completely despise doctrine and the world of ideas, as if they were of no consequence.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #3 on: February 06, 2015, 01:46:26 PM »
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  • OP, you are not alone.

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #4 on: February 06, 2015, 01:47:57 PM »
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  • Quote

     Church supplies jurisdiction for the needs of the Faithful, including the sacraments of confession and matrimony


    Well my friend who went from SSPX to FSSP told me they would not recognize her marriage as valid. Those were very bad news for her. I'm not sure what she had to do but still, it is a process.


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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 01:49:57 PM »
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  • I cannot say for sure whether or not the Novus Ordo priests are true priests and Novus Ordo bishops are true bishops. I have seen the arguments on both sides and I do not know who is right. Many people in my chapel feel this way also and wouldn't go to the Mass of a Novus Ordo priest. That is one problem with the FSSP, which is why I would go to an Eastern rite Mass before an FSSP Mass. The other problem I have is that I consider them to be compromised because of their relationship with Rome.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #6 on: February 06, 2015, 01:56:43 PM »
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  • It should also be noted that the FSSP only exists to pull people away from the SSPX (and other groups). If those other groups ceased to exist or became insignificant, how long before the FSSP's permission to exist was revoked? It's happened again and again that Rome (and local bishops) have pulled the plug on Traditional groups or priests under their control. Why presume the same wouldn't be the case for the FSSP?
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Matthew

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #7 on: February 06, 2015, 02:00:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote

     Church supplies jurisdiction for the needs of the Faithful, including the sacraments of confession and matrimony


    Well my friend who went from SSPX to FSSP told me they would not recognize her marriage as valid. Those were very bad news for her. I'm not sure what she had to do but still, it is a process.


    First of all, she did not do something praiseworthy. The FSSP might be good as one first discovers Tradition, but you can't live on breast milk forever. At some point, you need to grow up and go 100% Traditional. Someone stepping DOWN to the FSSP is compromising and giving up in some way. It's just like taking the difficulty setting down in a game -- what would you think of such a player? Only  the Faith isn't a game.

    Well, the FSSP is one with the Novus Ordo -- you shouldn't be surprised. The Novus Ordo rejects a lot of good things, including the Mass of All Ages, the traditional Rosary, devotion to the Sacred Heart, Fasting and Abstinence, celebrating Feast Days on the weekday they fall on, First Fridays, and the list goes on.

    The fact they don't recognize my marriage -- I should consider myself in good company.

    If I went to join some heretical cult, I would also expect that its followers would look askance at my marriage, since it wasn't blessed by whatever Great Leader rules that particular cult.

    God recognizes it, and that's all that matters to me.
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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #8 on: February 06, 2015, 02:09:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew


    Yes, the FSSP has a valid Mass, assuming the ordinations of the priests are valid (that's not exactly a non-issue, but it's a topic for another post). I would only go there if I had *no* other options.


    I don't know if I actually could get myself to go to one of their Masses. Somehow I cannot even see myself walking in let alone actually assisting at one of their Masses no matter what.

    Validity of priests aside, the FSSP freely agree to the validity and sanctity of the NO and it's mass, if they didn't, they would not be allowed to exist.



     




    Offline Matto

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #9 on: February 06, 2015, 02:13:15 PM »
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  • I wonder how an FSSP priest would react if you went to him in confession and confessed going to a Novus Ordo Mass as a sin.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline TKGS

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #10 on: February 06, 2015, 02:36:40 PM »
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  • The problem isn't with the "Mass" of the FSSP, per se, but with the doubtful ordination of the priest, the Modernist orientation of the priest, and the support of the Conciliar church that your donations would feed.

    Though a sedevacantist, I cannot bring myself to absolutely condemn the 1962 Missal though I believe that a traditional priest should use one of the prior Missals (and I absolutely reject any dogmatism on which one!).


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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #11 on: February 06, 2015, 02:48:03 PM »
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  • All good responses.  
    Where I'm at the SSPX chapel is closer than the FSSP parish, but the SSPX priest is a little less hardline.  Isn't that odd?  He sticks to the Gospel for sermons and he will discuss the crisis of SSPX and Rome if you bring it up privately, but it's never in the sermon.
    The FSSP pastor hammers on the Pope just about every Sunday. He's very black and white about doctrine. He told me he despises ambiguity and he has to keep the flock from succuмbing to modernist creep.  So now we go there most of the time.
    I did notice more modernism at the FSSP parish in San Diego, but not in the clergy, and not at their other locations that I've visited.  It dawned on me a short time ago that if I was blindfolded and brought to an FSSP Mass or devotion and told it was SSPX, I wouldn't know the difference.
    I expected a lot of defense of Rome stuff from them, but they are not into papalotry, just the opposite.  So I admit that I had several preconceived notions about them and was disabused of it pretty quickly.      

    Someone brought up going from SSPX to FSSP.  They say one must make a general confession due to doubtful authority of independent traditional priests and if married by SSPX it's "healed at the root" (I forget the latin) and blessed, something like that.  Which goes to jurisdiction which seems to be a matter of interpretation after a year of really intense research.  Cathinfo helped a lot and pointed me to other sources in my investigations, so thanks for that.
    Is it correct that epikeia does not seem to apply any longer for the SSPX since they seek regularization from Rome?  And now all the others just seem schismatic in one way or another.  Epikeia used to be my justification.

    One thing for sure, it should not be this complicated for a baptized Catholic to know the right thing to do and save his soul.  One false move and down the elevator shaft! :heretic:


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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #12 on: February 06, 2015, 02:53:38 PM »
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  • FSSP IS of the New Order.  That is all that needs to be said.  Ordination were changed decades ago.  No consecration can take place.

    Offline Matthew

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #13 on: February 06, 2015, 03:06:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest

    One thing for sure, it should not be this complicated for a baptized Catholic to know the right thing to do and save his soul.  One false move and down the elevator shaft! :heretic:


    That's evidence for why you're wrong.

    One false move and you're NOT down the elevator shaft (into Hell). God is good. He wouldn't do that to anyone.

    Epikeia is the legal principle where the true intent of the lawgiver can be assumed, if he were alive today.

    You suggest that just because the SSPX has compromised, we no longer have any options? Give me a break. That's what the Resistance is for. If the SSPX had epikeia before, wouldn't the Resistance have it now?

    And yes, there is one place to beware of because of schismatic/cult tendencies -- the Pfeiffer branch of the Resistance. But he is NOT the whole Resistance, not even if you restrict the discussion to the United States.
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    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Whats wrong with FSSP Masses?
    « Reply #14 on: February 06, 2015, 04:12:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Over time, you and your family will come to get more comfortable with Vatican II. It will slowly cease to be the horrible monster THAT IT ACTUALLY IS.

    You will certainly come to forget that the Church is in a horrible Crisis. After all, if you can have your Latin Mass every Sunday with the permission of Rome, what's all the fuss about? Those "Traditionalists" -- what's their problem?


    I must disagree.  Me and mine have attended FSSP for five years or more.  The problems stemming from Vatican II are more apparent than ever for us.  Pope Francis, in fact, has only served as an accelerant for just how aware the wife and I are to Modernist creep.  

    .........................

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