Quote from: Guest

If you are truly doing charity, you have to give in a disinterested way.  The moment you are feeling repulsed, its time to quit!  

Honestly, that doesn't make sense.  If you only ever felt good about charity, is it charity?  Wouldn't being subject to hard feelings and overcoming them make it more charitable?

I agree with this to be honest. The world will stop when they feel "repulsed", like the person doesn't deserve it, but virtue does not. Virtue usually flourishes most when one is repulsed, especially when it comes to the poor and needy, who are most pathetic and most subject to ill will from those they depend on.

It's easy to talk in theory about helping the poor, the sick, the needy, but that's because many of us have never come face to face with how unpretty it is in reality. When actually in the position, it is not as glorious as it would seem and often takes heroic self-sacrifice on the part of the helper.

That doesn't mean you have to help him, I'm not trying to push you one way or the other, I'm just saying don't hang your decision on how you feel.

He really isn't making much money at all and having half of it go to child support? Every single one of us would be in dire straights. If he is a hard worker, trying his best and not just slacking off, perhaps he is God's gift to you for almsgiving. Heck, even if he is a slacker, he might be that to you too. There again charity isn't reserved only for the virtuous, but on the other hand enabling it might not be helpful to him either. It's a tough call. I hope you are able to make a decision that you are at peace with.

Tell him to go to Alcoholics Anonymous for 1 year, every day.  The men will give him rides to the meetings.  

Whomever is laying a guilt trip on you, OP, should be ashamed.  You don't owe this deadbeat any money.  $15,000 is a lot of money.

Not according to some people around here.  It depends on who you are.

No one should feel guilty.  But no one should feel self-satisfied about letting a friend go homeless because you gave them $15,000.  Just consider if the positions were reversed.

Where does it end, though?

Some sort of plan needs to be made, limits need to be set.  Outside help needs to be requested.  Help from other sources.

What if ten years down the road he's still desparate for money, even more-so? Do you really think God is going to punish someone because after they gave a friend $15,000, they finally had to stop because they couldn't keep doing it? I wouldn't want a friend who did that to me. I wouldn't mind giving a friend money once or twice if he needed it, sure. But money year after year that adds up to $15,000?

If you can't afford it you can't afford it.  As for what the future holds you have to take that into account when you get to that point.  Plan for the contingencies, set limits.  It's natural to feel taken advantage of, you have to use your best judgment to determine what is the boundary between genuine charity and enabling.

How would you like it if you had a friend who kept pestering you for money time and time again?

It would be very unpleasant, but to be honest, it depends on how much money I had, how close of a friend he was, and what the friend's true circuмstances were.

Quote from: Guest

Quote from: Guest

If you are truly doing charity, you have to give in a disinterested way.  The moment you are feeling repulsed, its time to quit!  

Honestly, that doesn't make sense.  If you only ever felt good about charity, is it charity?  Wouldn't being subject to hard feelings and overcoming them make it more charitable?

When you give charity you have to give it with a good heart. If you grudgingly give it or are repulsed by giving it, you are not gaining any merit for it. Im talking about spiritual merit.
You can still practice charity without any good  sentiments because you feel the need of the person asking for it.  If you are begrudging the person, with repulsive feelings of being taken advantage of, then its your choice whether to continue. You then should NEVER complain about it as you are doing here.
 I have heard  sermons about this.

If you give in to those feelings then no you would not merit. But it's a different story if they are there but you strive to rise above them. Their mere existence doesn't change anything, it's our reaction to them that tips the scales.

OP here.

I am repulsed by it because:

1) it is rather sickening for a woman to be paying for a man. Out of pity, I did it with most of the men I dealt with in my life, but it went against my nature as a woman. I've done it too many times with men (whether they be friends or boyfriend) and it has now come to nauseate me - because the man is supposed to be paying for the woman, not the other way around.

2) the money I give my friend is usually me cleaning up the messes he gets himself into. For instance, if he had not procrastinated about paying the registration on his RV, he wouldn't be in this mess. If he had listened to my advice by distancing himself from the bounty hunter friend, he wouldn't be owing him (instead of distancing like I told him, he goes and borrows money from him).

3) the money I give my friend sometimes goes to waste either because another problem arises right after (because of his incompetence) and or because he does not keep the promise I made him take on the condition that I give him the money.
For instance, a few months ago, I gave him $700 to get dentures (since the dentist pulled out all his teeth). Well, he never asked the doctor the right questions, so he thought it was $700 for the whole set. But it was only $700 for the upper dentures. So now my friend can't even wear the top dentures I bought him because he doesn't have bottom ones. And if he had gone to the dentist all those years I was harrassing him to take care of his teeth, then he wouldn't have even needed to get his teeth pulled out in the first place and I wouldn't have needed to pay for the dentures (but he was afraid to go to the dentist). On another occassion, I gave him $6000 for downpayment of a car on the condition that he promise me something. Come to find out that he succuмbed to weakness and did not keep his promise (which I wouldn't have given him money if I knew he wouldn't have fulfilled his promise). On top of that, he was eventually unable to make payments on the car and they repossessed it. So there went my money down the drain.

But mostly, it is #1 that is a reason I am repulsed. Considering the fact that I have paid for most men I've had interaction with, I've come to be repulsed by men who let a woman pay most of the time.


 

The fact that we have a man asking another woman for money is truly insane. I wouldn't give him anymore. Simply pray for him.

OP here.

Yes. Like I said, that is most of the reason I feel sick. I forgot to add that it not only goes against my nature as a woman, but also against my culture for a woman to pay for a man.

I don't think gender has much to do with it. Again, not pressuring you into it, but playing devil's advocate.

When you say the "man is supposed to be paying for the woman" it gives the impression there is or was or may be a romantic relationship. That's the only time I know of when men are expected to be providers. If you are frustrated by having allowed yourself to be a sugar momma too many times, that's a whole different ball game. (Not asking for an explanation, I'm just saying)

But if it's simply a case of being a benefactor, who is the man or the woman doesn't make a difference. Think of St Elizabeth of Hungary for example. Would she have refused aid or been repulsed because she was a woman and among the needy were men? I doubt it. There were female saints who earned or were left fortunes and disposed of them charitably with no regard for gender. At that point they aren't looking for mates, they are doing God's work, it's different.

As for the rest of it, it does sound frustrating. I don't think anyone questions why you are at the end of your rope. But it really is up to you to factor those things into your decision whether to keep going with this or put a stop to it. A big question for me would be if his incompetence is due to bad will or just a lesser intellect. If it's bad will then I guess at some point he should feel the effects. If it's just a lesser intellect and lesser means, he may truly need your help. Even if that help means, as others have stated, finding other resources and organizations that are created for that purpose.

Giving him that much money for the car was clearly a mistake.  He didn't need nearly that much money to buy a working car.  Perhaps you've been too generous in the past.  But you should try to forget about mistakes you've made in the past and consider what he's facing.  Suppose he was supporting that child in his home?  Would your attitude be different?  You said half his earnings.  What is he going to do when his RV is taken away?

CORRECTION: It was $3,000, not $6,000 I gave him. I just remembered.

If his RV is taken away, he will probably sleep on the floor in the storage garage he is renting (where he stores his stuff). He will take showers at the house of his mother's children. He did that once for a few months during the time that I did not talk to him for a whole year.

So in other words, I should hold his hand all his life and take care of him when he falls down, like I'm his mother  - because he will always be poor and will thus always be in situations where he will need my help.