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Author Topic: What would you do if your child came out as gαy?  (Read 10373 times)

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Änσnymσus

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What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2014, 11:16:55 PM »
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    As by the way, I think it is pretty well established that masturbation is a graver sin than fornication.


    Show us where the Church teaches that.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #31 on: March 01, 2014, 01:23:47 AM »
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    Quote from: Guest

    As by the way, I think it is pretty well established that masturbation is a graver sin than fornication.


    Show us where the Church teaches that.


    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3154.htm

    Article 12. Whether the unnatural vice is the greatest sin among the species of lust?

    Objection 1. It would seem that the unnatural vice is not the greatest sin among the species of lust. For the more a sin is contrary to charity the graver it is. Now adultery, seduction and rape which are injurious to our neighbor are seemingly more contrary to the love of our neighbor, than unnatural sins, by which no other person is injured. Therefore the unnatural sin is not the greatest among the species of lust.

    Objection 2. Further, sins committed against God would seem to be the most grievous. Now sacrilege is committed directly against God, since it is injurious to the Divine worship. Therefore sacrilege is a graver sin than the unnatural vice.

    Objection 3. Further, seemingly, a sin is all the more grievous according as we owe a greater love to the person against whom that sin is committed. Now the order of charity requires that a man love more those persons who are united to him--and such are those whom he defiles by incest--than persons who are not connected with him, and whom in certain cases he defiles by the unnatural vice. Therefore incest is a graver sin than the unnatural vice.

    Objection 4. Further, if the unnatural vice is most grievous, the more it is against nature the graver it would seem to be. Now the sin of uncleanness or effeminacy would seem to be most contrary to nature, since it would seem especially in accord with nature that agent and patient should be distinct from one another. Hence it would follow that uncleanness is the gravest of unnatural vices. But this is not true. Therefore unnatural vices are not the most grievous among sins of lust.

    On the contrary, Augustine says (De adult. conjug. [The quotation is from Cap. Adulterii xxxii, qu. 7. Cf. Augustine, De Bono Conjugali, viii.]) that "of all these," namely the sins belonging to lust, "that which is against nature is the worst."

    I answer that, In every genus, worst of all is the corruption of the principle on which the rest depend. Now the principles of reason are those things that are according to nature, because reason presupposes things as determined by nature, before disposing of other things according as it is fitting. This may be observed both in speculative and in practical matters. Wherefore just as in speculative matters the most grievous and shameful error is that which is about things the knowledge of which is naturally bestowed on man, so in matters of action it is most grave and shameful to act against things as determined by nature. Therefore, since by the unnatural vices man transgresses that which has been determined by nature with regard to the use of venereal actions, it follows that in this matter this sin is gravest of all. After it comes incest, which, as stated above (Article 9), is contrary to the natural respect which we owe persons related to us.

    With regard to the other species of lust they imply a transgression merely of that which is determined by right reason, on the presupposition, however, of natural principles. Now it is more against reason to make use of the venereal act not only with prejudice to the future offspring, but also so as to injure another person besides. Wherefore simple fornication, which is committed without injustice to another person, is the least grave among the species of lust. Then, it is a greater injustice to have intercourse with a woman who is subject to another's authority as regards the act of generation, than as regards merely her guardianship. Wherefore adultery is more grievous than seduction. And both of these are aggravated by the use of violence. Hence rape of a virgin is graver than seduction, and rape of a wife than adultery. And all these are aggravated by coming under the head of sacrilege, as stated above (10, ad 2).

    Reply to Objection 1. Just as the ordering of right reason proceeds from man, so the order of nature is from God Himself: wherefore in sins contrary to nature, whereby the very order of nature is violated, an injury is done to God, the Author of nature. Hence Augustine says (Confess. iii, 8): "Those foul offenses that are against nature should be everywhere and at all times detested and punished, such as were those of the people of Sodom, which should all nations commit, they should all stand guilty of the same crime, by the law of God which hath not so made men that they should so abuse one another. For even that very intercourse which should be between God and us is violated, when that same nature, of which He is the Author, is polluted by the perversity of lust."

    Reply to Objection 2. Vices against nature are also against God, as stated above (ad 1), and are so much more grievous than the depravity of sacrilege, as the order impressed on human nature is prior to and more firm than any subsequently established order.

    Reply to Objection 3. The nature of the species is more intimately united to each individual, than any other individual is. Wherefore sins against the specific nature are more grievous.

    Reply to Objection 4. Gravity of a sin depends more on the abuse of a thing than on the omission of the right use. Wherefore among sins against nature, the lowest place belongs to the sin of uncleanness, which consists in the mere omission of copulation with another. While the most grievous is the sin of bestiality, because use of the due species is not observed. Hence a gloss on Genesis 37:2, "He accused his brethren of a most wicked crime," says that "they copulated with cattle." After this comes the sin of sodomy, because use of the right sex is not observed. Lastly comes the sin of not observing the right manner of copulation, which is more grievous if the abuse regards the "vas" than if it affects the manner of copulation in respect of other circuмstances.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #32 on: March 01, 2014, 05:03:07 AM »
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  • Thank you.
    This clears up another point too...

    Reply to Objection 4. Gravity of a sin depends more on the abuse of a thing than on the omission of the right use. Wherefore among sins against nature, the lowest place belongs to the sin of uncleanness, which consists in the mere omission of copulation with another. While the most grievous is the sin of bestiality, because use of the due species is not observed. Hence a gloss on Genesis 37:2, "He accused his brethren of a most wicked crime," says that "they copulated with cattle." After this comes the sin of sodomy, because use of the right sex is not observed. Lastly comes the sin of not observing the right manner of copulation, which is more grievous if the abuse regards the "vas" than if it affects the manner of copulation in respect of other circuмstances.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #33 on: March 01, 2014, 05:09:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: crossbro


    But let's not forget that statistically 30% of all child molesters are women.


    Sources please.

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #34 on: March 01, 2014, 02:17:12 PM »
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  • The defense of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity in this thread has led me to believe there are closet sodomites on this forum. :barf:


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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #35 on: March 01, 2014, 02:24:02 PM »
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  • Well, I guess some queers are attracted by the beauty of the True Mass. Oscar Wilde was and when he was older I read that he gave up his queerness and converted to the Catholic Church. And that other writer who many trads including David Allen White like (I forget his name and the name of his famous book that many trads like) he was a queer and gave it up when he converted to the Catholic Church.

    Änσnymσus

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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #36 on: March 01, 2014, 02:49:30 PM »
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  • I made the above post. I remembered the writer's name. It is Evelyn Waugh. And his book was Brideshead Revisited.

    Offline Nadir

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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #37 on: March 01, 2014, 03:08:24 PM »
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  • In answer to the OP's question, I would immediately ask "Who has got at my child?"

    Quote
    Well, I guess some queers are attracted by the beauty of the True Mass. Oscar Wilde was and when he was older I read that he gave up his queerness and converted to the Catholic Church. And that other writer who many trads including David Allen White like (I forget his name and the name of his famous book that many trads like) he was a queer and gave it up when he converted to the Catholic Church.


    I understand what you are saying. All of us who are serious about fighting against our temptations "are attracted by the beauty of the True Mass". But it is a shame you choose to use such inadequate language for the topic at hand. The use of the word queer is what I have in mind. I think we should use appropriate language if we wish to have our ideas taken seriously.

    Those with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ attractions have the choice to control their sexal urges, and the way those who are Catholic would be enabled to do that would be through the practice of the Faith, regular life of prayer and the sacraments.

    In this way some are eventually able to overcome these disordered attractions. But at least the person is enabled to live a chaste life, which is what God asks of all of us.

    People like this need our support, encouragement and prayer. Not all of us are suited to perform the first two acts of charity, but we all are capable of the third.

    May I suggest checking out http://couragerc.net/
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline claudel

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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #38 on: March 01, 2014, 07:01:21 PM »
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    Well, I guess some queers are attracted by the beauty of the True Mass. Oscar Wilde was and when he was older I read that he gave up his queerness and converted to the Catholic Church. And that other writer who many trads including David Allen White like (I forget his name and the name of his famous book that many trads like) he was a queer and gave it up when he converted to the Catholic Church.


    Quote from: Guest
    I made the above post. I remembered the writer's name. It is Evelyn Waugh. And his book was Brideshead Revisited.


    I see that after eight pages of occasionally moronic comments, a member of the resident hard-core knuckle-dragging contingent feels confident enough to shoot off his mouth. Welcome!

    I won't urge you to allow your utter ignorance of Wilde and Waugh and their works, let alone your glib slander of Waugh's character, to slow you down. That would be Catholic behavior, after all, and you clearly wish to dissociate yourself from everything the saints and scholars of our Catholic past would recognize as morally helpful or neutral and intellectually desirable.

    Änσnymσus

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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #39 on: March 01, 2014, 07:12:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: claudel

    I see that after eight pages of occasionally moronic comments, a member of the resident hard-core knuckle-dragging contingent feels confident enough to shoot off his mouth. Welcome!

    I won't urge you to allow your utter ignorance of Wilde and Waugh and their works, let alone your glib slander of Waugh's character, to slow you down. That would be Catholic behavior, after all, and you clearly wish to dissociate yourself from everything the saints and scholars of our Catholic past would recognize as morally helpful or neutral and intellectually desirable.

    I have no idea what you think was wrong with my posts. I thought it was common knowledge that in his youth Waugh was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ as was Oscar Wilde and that later on in their lives they converted. I admit I am ignorant of Waugh's work because I never read anything he wrote. I have read the "Dorian Gray" and "The Importance of Being Earnest" by Wilde but I have not read any of Wilde's other works except for a small book of quotations by him.

    Änσnymσus

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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #40 on: March 01, 2014, 07:30:04 PM »
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  • My uncle was gαy. He died from AIDS when I was little kid. He knew what he did was wrong and thank God he repented.

    If my child was gαy, I do not know what I would do. It's a tough situation to deal with. I would speak to a Priest right away, and pray continually about it.


    Offline Nadir

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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #41 on: March 01, 2014, 08:39:37 PM »
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  • As others have pointed out, the flaw is in the title of the topic
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    "What would you do if your child came out as gαy?"


    No definition of child!
    Does it mean minor who has not yet reached puberty?
    Has this "child" reached puberty?
    Does it mean progeny?

    What does "come out" mean?
    Does it mean confess to a problem?
    Does it mean proudly declare him/herself?

    Is s/he asking help from the parent?
    Or attempting to antagonise him/her?

    What are we to understand by "gαy".
    "gαy" has definite political connotations.

    Another problem is that this is in the anonymous section, so all sorts of phonies can come up with lots of wacky ideas.

    The long and the short of it is that children simply don't "come out as gαy" without a push from some perverted adult helping them to do so.

    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #42 on: March 02, 2014, 12:31:06 AM »
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    I made the above post. I remembered the writer's name. It is Evelyn Waugh. And his book was Brideshead Revisited.


    Show us where Waugh stated he had been a sodomite earlier in his life.

    Offline claudel

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    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #43 on: March 02, 2014, 12:54:23 AM »
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    I thought it was common knowledge that in his youth Waugh was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ


    Yet again, "common knowledge" is dead wrong. The statements about Wilde are also misleading, in that Wilde simply ceased to engage in ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ conduct after his release from Reading Gaol.

    Wilde was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ who may have repented at the end of his life. The stories of a deathbed conversion are not well docuмented and hence less than fully convincing (one may hope they are true, needless to say). Waugh was a heterosɛҳuąƖ with, at most, a well-controlled inclination toward ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. No more than a single instance of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ conduct has ever been substantiated against him—and he admitted to that act.

    The establishment, in its desire to link Waugh to the Christophobic mob, has done what it does best: lie where it can get away with it and exaggerate boldly where it can't.

    Waugh had ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ friends and acquaintances, of course. Life in the social and literary circles in the England of his day would have been well nigh unimaginable without them. Actually I myself still have the latter and used to have the former (not that I ever see more than two other human beings on earth nowadays). With any luck, that circuмstance will make me equatable to Waugh in some folks' eyes—even if only to be accounted just as horrid!

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What would you do if your child came out as gαy?
    « Reply #44 on: March 02, 2014, 01:06:19 AM »
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    Simply a question.


    To OP.
    Maybe get him to read Brideshead Revisited and learn some lesson from it like how he should leave his homo friends behind and value the Church and her teachings and practices.