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Author Topic: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?  (Read 1724 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2024, 05:10:33 PM »
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  • It's pretty puritan to make a big deal over earrings.


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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #31 on: May 05, 2024, 06:49:51 PM »
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    But tattoos are not temporary (unless one wanted to be really jesuitical, and say "well, they're temporary, because you will eventually die and decompose, and so will the tattoo").  Again, if the Church doesn't condemn them as per se sinful, then neither can I, but I still don't get it.
    I believe the Church has been pretty consistent in banning tattoos.  (even the Old Testament Judaism) forbade tattoos.


    Aside from our present day, piercings have not been as prevalent, so not as problematic.  The last hundred years or so, earrings have become common, but any immoderate number of piercings would violate the spirit of the body being a "temple of the Holy Ghost" so too many piercings would be sinful, in the spirit of the law.  Even if not expressly forbidden in some Moral Theology book.  

    The world is not big enough to hold all of the books required to explain/allow/condemn every, single, specific sinful activity.


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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #32 on: May 05, 2024, 06:58:37 PM »
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  • Mutilation to this degree indicates self-loathing.

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #33 on: May 05, 2024, 09:15:54 PM »
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  • Wrong.  Her mother had her ears pierced. Being a dutiful daughter she probably did not object.
    This reminds me of how I ended up having my ears pierced.

    I never planned to have get my ears pierced and was very against it...  

    BUT my husband insisted that I get my ears pierced.   

    I couldn't find anywhere saying that it was a sin for sure to have them and so I gave in to his wishes.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #34 on: May 06, 2024, 12:00:05 AM »
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  • So, having read this thread, my takeaway is that it's OK to tatoo your face as long as it's pretty. :popcorn:

    Seriously, most of the responses here amounted to "If I think it's pretty, it's good. If I don't personally find it attractive, it's bad, possibly even sinful."

    I appreciated those that pointed out that you can wear earrings without piercing your ears.

    I don't know if piercings are good or bad, but if you're alright with ear piercings, you should be alright with tasteful nose piercings as well. It's a different look, but not inherently ugly.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #35 on: May 06, 2024, 06:01:02 AM »
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  • I appreciated those that pointed out that you can wear earrings without piercing your ears.

    Are you next going to say that it's wrong to eat pork?  This smells of OT-law-literalism to me, big time, pretending that some ritual law of the OT (Book of Leviticus) remains in force, where it's OK to wear earrings as long as the skin isn't pierced.  :facepalm:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #36 on: May 06, 2024, 06:06:48 AM »
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  • I believe the Church has been pretty consistent in banning tattoos.  (even the Old Testament Judaism) forbade tattoos.

    OT also banned pork.  :facepalm:

    Principle in the NT is that the body is a temple of the Holy Ghost.  In addition, Our Lord that sin comes from the interior and not the exterior.  So, the extent to which it would be sinful to pierce or tattoo has to do with those two principles, 1) whether something is unbecoming of a temple of the Holy Ghost and 2) motivated by vanity, immodesty, etc.  Clearly the picture of the woman with the tattooed face qualifies as a defilement of the temple (although we don't know that she's baptized and therefore qualifies for that designation in the strict sense, but she would at least be a potential temple of the Holy Spirit).

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #37 on: May 06, 2024, 06:12:19 AM »
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  • I don't know what God thinks of a woman with a piercing in each ear lobe although I would hope He does not judge the custom harshly as it's (presumed) purpose is to decorate what is already beauty or beautiful.

    OTOH, when I was a kid, I remember that men with pierced ears did it as a means of identifying who the queers were, aka "left is right and right is wrong" was the saying back then, meaning the homos had only their right ears pierced. Only piercing the left ear sent the message they were "real men" and definitely not queer.

    These past decades however there seems to be a contest to see who can render their appearance the most hideous by tattoos, piercings, makeup and hairdos with freakish colors, and which is ugly by any measure. Ugly is ugly and God hates ugly.



    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #38 on: May 06, 2024, 06:12:53 AM »
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  • I don't know what God thinks of a woman with a piercing in each ear lobe although I would hope He does not judge the custom harshly as it's (presumed) purpose is to decorate what is already beauty or beautiful.

    OTOH, when I was a kid, I remember that men with pierced ears did it as a means of identifying who the queers were, aka "left is right and right is wrong" was the saying back then, meaning the homos had only their right ears pierced. Only piercing the left ear sent the message they were "real men" and definitely not queer.

    These past decades however there seems to be a contest to see who can render their appearance the most hideous by tattoos, piercings, makeup and hairdos with freakish colors, and which is ugly by any measure. Ugly is ugly and God hates ugly.
    Me
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #39 on: May 06, 2024, 06:29:13 AM »
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  • Maybe St Therese didn’t have her pierced at all.  During those times many earrings were clip ons for non pierced ears.
    From what I can see in that picture, that is not a clip-on earring. It looks like a thin wire hanging with no stud at the lobe.  I used to wear clip on earrings (now I just don't bother with earrings at all), and you couldn't find a clip on like that.  For clip-ons, you have to have at least a stud of some sort at the lobe where the clip-on mechanism can connect under the lobe and in the back.  Not sure if that makes sense.

    As for the nose piercings, I know a couple of traditional Catholic women who have them.  One wears a stud and the other I have seen has one and wears a small ring on one side.  It is surprising to me that they have it, and it definitely takes away from the beauty of the woman (especially the ring).  It also makes it very difficult not to look at it when speaking with them.  

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #40 on: May 06, 2024, 07:29:35 AM »
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  • Ah, I don't know.  I don't see anything wrong with a single piercing and relatively modest earring, or a necklace.  You could also claim she would have been "more perfect" if she had fasted on bread and water for many years.  Perfection does not consist primarily of the outward and the bodily.  It depends on the motivation and whether it's disordered, i.e driven by "vanity".  That distinction is actually one of the foundational princples of her Little Way, that perfection does not consist primarily of heroic deeds, but of interior dispositions, love, selflessness, etc.  If you recall she wore the earrings and wore her hair up for one reason only, to try to appear older and more mature, since she was petitioning Pope Leo XIII to get into the convent before the normal canonical age.  Nor does a woman who wants to put a pair of earrings on to look feminine or pretty engage in any kind of disorder, since it's natural for women to want to appear feminine and pretty.  Perhaps they should wear potato sacks all day so as not to appear feminine and pretty also.  It's all about the interior disposition.  If a woman puts on earrings for the reasons St. Therese did or just to appear more femine (let's say she has some masculine physical features and may be trying to offset it, or perhaps is somewhat homely and want to appear more pretty), then there's absolutely nothing "less perfect" about it, any more than a man might put on a nice suite for Mass to give a certain appearance.  In other words, whether or not earrings has anything to do with perfection is a matter of the internal forum dispositions of the individual.  Obvious, some actions in the external forum are inherently incompatible with interior perfection, but this isn't one of them.

    I'd be thrilled to be as "less perfect" as either St. Therese or Zelle Martin.

    Good post. 


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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #41 on: May 06, 2024, 08:04:49 AM »
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  • I checked about 7 websites on the meaning of nose piercing for western women.  I'm not going to post links here because I don't have time but the unanimous reason was "bodily autonomy, rebelliousness, creativity, openness to trying new things, and self-rule".

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #42 on: May 06, 2024, 08:08:13 AM »
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  • From what I can see in that picture, that is not a clip-on earring. It looks like a thin wire hanging with no stud at the lobe.  I used to wear clip on earrings (now I just don't bother with earrings at all), and you couldn't find a clip on like that.  For clip-ons, you have to have at least a stud of some sort at the lobe where the clip-on mechanism can connect under the lobe and in the back.  Not sure if that makes sense.

    As for the nose piercings, I know a couple of traditional Catholic women who have them.  One wears a stud and the other I have seen has one and wears a small ring on one side.  It is surprising to me that they have it, and it definitely takes away from the beauty of the woman (especially the ring).  It also makes it very difficult not to look at it when speaking with them. 

    The first few times I ever saw nose piercings, I thought it was a booger hanging down.

    When did this stuff get started?  Never heard of such a thing growing up.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #43 on: May 06, 2024, 08:16:33 AM »
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  • Tattoos have been forbidden by the Church for many, many centuries, no?  Piercings were never as popular as tattoos, so not sure if there's a clear answer on this one.

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    Re: What kind of body modifications do you think is ok?
    « Reply #44 on: May 06, 2024, 01:04:55 PM »
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  • As for the Little Flower wearing earrings, is it not perhaps the case that she wanted others to think she was vain?  This is not uncommon with the saints, and she had a very mature spiritual life at a very young age.