Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?  (Read 5798 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2013, 09:11:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    So, I am going to hell because I expect too much from people, like providing their own evidence?


    Did I say that?  Or are you dishonest?

    Keep asking dishonest questions: and yes, you're on the road to hell.

    If you think I'm wrong about Benedict XVI's remark, or that Bishop Tissier is wrong, prove it.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #16 on: January 28, 2013, 09:15:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Can you provide concrete examples from Benedict XVI's writings, and explain how they are heretical (i.e., determine how they are contrary to a dogma of divinely revealed and Catholic faith, and proposed by the Church as such) and can you cite the dogma or doctrine that such examples contradicts and how it does so?

    Thanks.


    Let's stop arguing about this guy's intentions. It is a distraction from the topic at hand. I will do as he has asked and prove Benedict's heresies simply because I think it will benefit others as well. Let's start with this quote:

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, Co-Workers of the Truth, 1990, p. 217: “The question that really concerns us, the question that really oppresses us, is why it is necessary for us in particular to practice the Christian Faith in its totality; why, when there are so many other ways that lead to heaven and salvation, it should be required of us to bear day after day the whole burden of ecclesial dogmas and of the ecclesial ethos.  And so we come again to the question: What exactly is Christian reality?  What is the specific element in Christianity that not merely justifies it, but makes it compulsorily necessary for us?  When we raise the question about the foundation and meaning of our Christian existence, there slips in a certain false hankering for the apparently more comfortable life of other people who are also going to heaven. We are too much like the laborers of the first hour in the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Mt. 20:1-16).  Once they discovered that they could have earned their day’s pay of one denarius in a much easier way, they could not understand why they had had to labor the whole day.  But what a strange attitude it is to find the duties of our Christian life unrewarding just because the denarius of salvation can be gained without them!  It would seem that we – like the workers of the first hour – want to be paid not only with our own salvation, but more particularly with others’ lack of salvation. That is at once very human and profoundly un-Christian.”


    Benedict rejects EENS, that is, the Church's teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. In the above quote he says that there as "so many other ways that lead to salvation".

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, Principles of Catholic Theology, 1982, p. 381: "If it is desirable to offer a diagnosis of the text [of the Vatican II docuмent, Gaudium et Spes] as a whole, we might say that (in conjunction with the texts on religious liberty and world religions) it is a revision of the Syllabus of Pius IX, a kind of counter syllabus… As a result, the one-sidedness of the position adopted by the Church under Pius IX and Pius X in response to the situation created by the new phase of history inaugurated by the French Revolution, was, to a large extent, corrected..."


    So, according to Benedict, Vatican II was a "counter-syllabus" that "corrected" the "one-sidedness" of the position of Pope Pius IX and Pope St. Pius X. I don't think I need to explain why the above is absolute nonsense.

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, God and the World, 2000, p. 373: “There were in fact Christian hotheads and fanatics who destroyed temples, who were unable to see paganism as anything more than idolatry that had to be radically eliminated.”


    Benedict apparently isn't aware of the Bible verse that says gods of the pagans are devils. People who oppose paganism are "fanatics" and "hotheads"?

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, God and the World, 2000, p. 76: “Q. In the beginning the earth was bare and empty; God had not yet made it rain, is what it says in Genesis. Then God fashioned man, and for this purpose he took ‘dust from the field and blew into his nostrils the breath of life; thus man became a living creature.’ The breath of life – is that the answer to the question of where we come from? A. I think we have here a most important image, which presents a significant understanding of what man is. It suggests that man is one who springs from the earth and its possibilities. We can even read into this representation something like evolution.”

    Benedict XVI, God and the World, 2000, p. 139: “The Christian picture of the world is this, that the world in its details is the product of a long process of evolution but that at the most profound level it comes from the Logos.”


    Evolution is contrary to Church teaching, yet Benedict is promoting it in what I quoted above. God created all things, this is an obvious Dogma.

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, The Meaning of Christian Brotherhood, pp. 87-88: “The difficulty in the way of giving an answer is a profound one. Ultimately it is due to the fact that there is no appropriate category in Catholic thought for the phenomenon of Protestantism today (one could say the same of the relationship to the separated churches of the East). It is obvious that the old category of ‘heresy’ is no longer of any value. Heresy, for Scripture and the early Church, includes the idea of a personal decision against the unity of the Church, and heresy’s characteristic is pertinacia, the obstinacy of him who persists in his own private way. This, however, cannot be regarded as an appropriate description of the spiritual situation of the Protestant Christian. In the course of a now centuries-old history, Protestantism has made an important contribution to the realization of Christian faith, fulfilling a positive function in the development of the Christian message and, above all, often giving rise to a sincere and profound faith in the individual non-Catholic Christian, whose separation from the Catholic affirmation has nothing to do with the pertinacia characteristic of heresy. Perhaps we may here invert a saying of St. Augustine’s: that an old schism becomes a heresy. The very passage of time alters the character of a division, so that an old division is something essentially different from a new one. Something that was once rightly condemned as heresy cannot later simply become true, but it can gradually develop its own positive ecclesial nature, with which the individual is presented as his church and in which he lives as a believer, not as a heretic. This organization of one group, however, ultimately has an effect on the whole. The conclusion is inescapable, then: Protestantism today is something different from heresy in the traditional sense, a phenomenon whose true theological place has not yet been determined.”


    Benedict above says that Protestants aren't heretics. This simply is not true. They ARE heretics. This is obvious.

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, Zenit News story, Sept. 5, 2000: “We are in agreement that a Jew, and this is true for believers of other religions, does not need to know or acknowledge Christ as the Son of God in order to be saved…”


    False.

    Quote
    Saint Fulgentius: “Hold most firmly and never doubt at all that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”


    One who rejects Jesus Christ cannot be saved.

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, July 24, 2009 Homily at Vespers: “The role of the priesthood is to consecrate the world so that it may become a living host, a liturgy: so that the world may not be something alongside the reality of the world, but that the world itself shall becomes a living host, a liturgy. This is also the great vision of Teilhard de Chardin: in the end we shall achieve a true cosmic liturgy, where the cosmos becomes a living host. And let us pray the Lord to help us become priests in this sense...”


    Teilhard was a New Ager, and considering his reference to Teilhard and use of terms such as "Cosmos", so is Benedict.

    So yes, it's obvious that Benedict is a heretic.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 09:21:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • No, because intentions can be gauged, and it's important to point out when bad-faithed +Fellay cult debating tactics are used.

    When a point is made, if the cultist doesn't acknowledge it in any way but simply demands more and more evidence while refusing to acknowledge anything said, then it's necessary to point out the bad will being shown.

    Liars can "win" debates by stonewalling and refusing to admit or acknowledge what is presented, while at the same time expecting to be treated as though they are honest.  It is vitally important that their dishonesty be exposed.  When an honest person debates with the dishonest, the dishonest can appear to win and successfully deceive when his dishonest tactics aren't exposed.

    That's how Jews "win" debates.  They are unashamed to lie, yet make it taboo to question their sincerity and motivations.

    Anyone here can read Bishop Tissier or Si Si Non Non or part of Introduction to Christianity.

    If they then pretend they've never heard of the issues, demand "proof" that you present to them - then they are not honest people, and must be exposed as such.

    It isn't just that dishonest people be permitted to debate with honest people.

    The dishonest should be banned.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 09:26:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, regardless of his intentions, those quotes nevertheless will prove a very improtant point.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 09:28:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Well, regardless of his intentions, those quotes nevertheless will prove a very improtant point.


    He almost surely knows about all those quotes and doesn't care.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 09:31:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Let's stop arguing about this guy's intentions. It is a ditraction from the topic at hand. I will do as he has asked and prove Benedict's heresies simply because I think it will benefit others as well.


    Thank you, kind and honest Guest!

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, Co-Workers of the Truth, 1990, p. 217: “The question that really concerns us, the question that really oppresses us, is why it is necessary for us in particular to practice the Christian Faith in its totality; why, when there are so many other ways that lead to heaven and salvation, it should be required of us to bear day after day the whole burden of ecclesial dogmas and of the ecclesial ethos.  And so we come again to the question: What exactly is Christian reality?  What is the specific element in Christianity that not merely justifies it, but makes it compulsorily necessary for us?  When we raise the question about the foundation and meaning of our Christian existence, there slips in a certain false hankering for the apparently more comfortable life of other people who are also going to heaven. We are too much like the laborers of the first hour in the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Mt. 20:1-16).  Once they discovered that they could have earned their day’s pay of one denarius in a much easier way, they could not understand why they had had to labor the whole day.  But what a strange attitude it is to find the duties of our Christian life unrewarding just because the denarius of salvation can be gained without them!  It would seem that we – like the workers of the first hour – want to be paid not only with our own salvation, but more particularly with others’ lack of salvation. That is at once very human and profoundly un-Christian.”


    Wow, that is heretical alright. I would say Benedict's abuse of the parable of the laborers in the vineyard (wasn't that in last Sunday's Gospel) is blasphemous.

    You can see the Hegelian influence very markedly, with an existential slant.


    Quote
    Benedict XVI, Principles of Catholic Theology, 1982, p. 381: "If it is desirable to offer a diagnosis of the text [of the Vatican II docuмent, Gaudium et Spes] as a whole, we might say that (in conjunction with the texts on religious liberty and world religions) it is a revision of the Syllabus of Pius IX, a kind of counter syllabus… As a result, the one-sidedness of the position adopted by the Church under Pius IX and Pius X in response to the situation created by the new phase of history inaugurated by the French Revolution, was, to a large extent, corrected..."


    Wow, that just [censored]!


    Quote
    Benedict XVI, God and the World, 2000, p. 373: “There were in fact Christian hotheads and fanatics who destroyed temples, who were unable to see paganism as anything more than idolatry that had to be radically eliminated.”


    But paganism is nothing "more than idolatry that had to be radically eliminated."


    Quote
    Benedict XVI, God and the World, 2000, p. 76: “Q. In the beginning the earth was bare and empty; God had not yet made it rain, is what it says in Genesis. Then God fashioned man, and for this purpose he took ‘dust from the field and blew into his nostrils the breath of life; thus man became a living creature.’ The breath of life – is that the answer to the question of where we come from? A. I think we have here a most important image, which presents a significant understanding of what man is. It suggests that man is one who springs from the earth and its possibilities. We can even read into this representation something like evolution.”

    Benedict XVI, God and the World, 2000, p. 139: “The Christian picture of the world is this, that the world in its details is the product of a long process of evolution but that at the most profound level it comes from the Logos.”



    Okay, this is just creepy right here.


    Quote
    Benedict XVI, The Meaning of Christian Brotherhood, pp. 87-88: “The difficulty in the way of giving an answer is a profound one. Ultimately it is due to the fact that there is no appropriate category in Catholic thought for the phenomenon of Protestantism today (one could say the same of the relationship to the separated churches of the East). It is obvious that the old category of ‘heresy’ is no longer of any value. Heresy, for Scripture and the early Church, includes the idea of a personal decision against the unity of the Church, and heresy’s characteristic is pertinacia, the obstinacy of him who persists in his own private way. This, however, cannot be regarded as an appropriate description of the spiritual situation of the Protestant Christian. In the course of a now centuries-old history, Protestantism has made an important contribution to the realization of Christian faith, fulfilling a positive function in the development of the Christian message and, above all, often giving rise to a sincere and profound faith in the individual non-Catholic Christian, whose separation from the Catholic affirmation has nothing to do with the pertinacia characteristic of heresy. Perhaps we may here invert a saying of St. Augustine’s: that an old schism becomes a heresy. The very passage of time alters the character of a division, so that an old division is something essentially different from a new one. Something that was once rightly condemned as heresy cannot later simply become true, but it can gradually develop its own positive ecclesial nature, with which the individual is presented as his church and in which he lives as a believer, not as a heretic. This organization of one group, however, ultimately has an effect on the whole. The conclusion is inescapable, then: Protestantism today is something different from heresy in the traditional sense, a phenomenon whose true theological place has not yet been determined.”


    Okay...? So the "evolution" that he spoke about applies to the Church too?


    Quote
    Benedict XVI, Zenit News story, Sept. 5, 2000: “We are in agreement that a Jew, and this is true for believers of other religions, does not need to know or acknowledge Christ as the Son of God in order to be saved…”


    This is of anti-Christ. This is the evil that prompted St. John to write his Gospel and defend the divinity of Our Lord so strongly.

    Quote
    Benedict XVI, July 24, 2009 Homily at Vespers: “The role of the priesthood is to consecrate the world so that it may become a living host, a liturgy: so that the world may not be something alongside the reality of the world, but that the world itself shall becomes a living host, a liturgy. This is also the great vision of Teilhard de Chardin: in the end we shall achieve a true cosmic liturgy, where the cosmos becomes a living host. And let us pray the Lord to help us become priests in this sense...”


    What absurd optimism: a cosmic liturgy that breaks down the barrier between those in Holy Orders and those who are not.

    Quote
    So yes, it's obvious that Benedict is a heretic.


    See, I hadn't read Benedict's words before.

    Now it makes sense when you guys say, "So Rosemary's Baby got to Rome after all these years." Or, "It's Damien all grown up and in Rome." Or something like that.

    Thank you very much!

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #21 on: January 28, 2013, 09:32:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Guest
    Well, regardless of his intentions, those quotes nevertheless will prove a very improtant point.


    He almost surely knows about all those quotes and doesn't care.


    Shows what you know.. Read the above post.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 09:37:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Shows what you know.. Read the above post.


    Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

    You post in anonymous, and then play games, when asked to look something up, you look it up if you're good-willed.



    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 10:02:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As for Benedict's denial of the resurrection of bodies, here is his exact quote:

    Quote
    “Paul [St. Paul] teaches not the resurrection of physical bodies but of persons…” (Joseph Ratzinger, Introduction to Christianity, (republished in 1990 with Ratzinger’s approval), p. 277

    Offline Alex117

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 254
    • Reputation: +1/-0
    • Gender: Male
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #24 on: January 28, 2013, 10:05:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Thank you, kind and honest Guest!

    I would also like to say thank you. It's nice that after four pages of stupidity, someone with goodwill posted something relevant to the thread.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #25 on: January 28, 2013, 10:10:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Alex117
    Quote from: Guest
    Thank you, kind and honest Guest!

    I would also like to say thank you. It's nice that after four pages of stupidity, someone with goodwill posted something relevant to the thread.


    Do you think the person didn't know of those quotes?

    Couldn't use google?

    Or couldn't read Faith Imperiled by reason?

    Or was he just trying to be obnoxious?



    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #26 on: January 28, 2013, 11:25:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Reading such internet sources as New Advent that are run by neo
    conservative Catholics that Benedict XVl is perfectly orthodox and
    it is all in our imagination that the current Pope deviates from
    Catholic Teaching.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #27 on: January 28, 2013, 11:47:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Alex117
    Quote from: Guest
    Thank you, kind and honest Guest!

    I would also like to say thank you. It's nice that after four pages of stupidity, someone with goodwill posted something relevant to the thread.


    Do you think the person didn't know of those quotes?

    Couldn't use google?

    Or couldn't read Faith Imperiled by reason?

    Or was he just trying to be obnoxious?



    Boy, you really need to grow up. Don't let your personality disorders and insatiable need to feed your ego blind you.

    The guy even conceded that Ratzinger is a heretic, and yet you still persist in judging this person.

    You are just proof that it is people like you who are making sure people remain in the N. O.




    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #28 on: January 28, 2013, 11:51:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Guest
    Shows what you know.. Read the above post.


    Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

    You post in anonymous, and then play games, when asked to look something up, you look it up if you're good-willed.



    Don't throw stones in a glass house. You are posting anonymously too. If you were good willed, you would have provided those quotes himself.

    If you have the time to respond to these posts, surely you could copy and paste something, or type it up yourself.

    The fact that you keep judging and even giving thumbs down to the person's concession that Ratzinger is a heretic shows that you are in these internet discussion merely for the sake of satisfying some sort of egomaniacal pathology of yours.

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11934
    • Reputation: +7294/-500
    • Gender: Female
    What is the most hereticl think Benedict XVI has written or said?
    « Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 01:04:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thanks for not posting anonymously, Alex.

    I can understand the need to allow non-members to post anonymously but should not members have the decency to come out of hiding when they post? After all they have their screen names to hide behind already. The threads would be so much easier to follow as well. You squabblers should read this:
    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/PLEASE-GROW-UP
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024