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Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on March 28, 2021, 12:23:45 PM
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Suppose you tell someone you are going to do something for them. Then they do something which, had you known about it at the time, you never would have made the pledge/offer.
Is an honorable man bound to keep the pledge.
Or can he renege based on the new knowledge?
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Suppose you tell someone you are going to do something for them. Then they do something which, had you known about it at the time, you never would have made the pledge/offer.
Is an honorable man bound to keep the pledge.
Or can he renege based on the new knowledge?
There's very little information on the specific issue. But I can say that honesty is part of being an honorable man.
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I suppose it depends upon how much of a pledge it was. For example, if an honorable man makes a pledge (vow) to a woman in marriage, it really doesn't matter what she does in the future. An honorable man is still bound to keep that pledge.
On the other hand, if you happen to tell someone you'll give them $1,000.00 to pay off a debt, and the person immediately spends $1,000.00 on something else and doubles his debt, I don't think you are necessarily bound to give that first $1,000.00 to him. It really depends on the way the "pledge" was made. For example, if he came to you asking for help to pay off a debt and you tell him you will help, then I would not hold myself to be bound since it now appears he really just wanted the $1,000.00 to pay for the new item he couldn't afford and it was really just a con-job.
If there was a "friendship" of sorts, that friendship is likely to be over, but such a person probably isn't really a friend anyway.
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I'm clearly not a man, but I agree with what TKGS said.
I do think that the specific details of your situation matter. Perhaps you can shed more light on them?
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I'm clearly not a man, but I agree with what TKGS said.
I do think that the specific details of your situation matter. Perhaps you can shed more light on them?
Our chapel has a set of rose vestments that the priest didn't like, so on Gaudete Sunday, he ended up wearing purple instead. So after Mass, I offered to donate $1,500 towards a new set of rose vestments. He accepted. The next day, an announcement was made regarding an ecuмenical activity the church would be engaged in. Had I known about that activity, I would not have made the offer. But as it stands, the offer has been made and accepted.
What would John Wayne do? I know this is not a matter of sin/non-sin, but honor is the next most important thing to me. If a man doesn't have that, he doesn't have much. Would reneging now impact my honor?
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Trouble is today we have so few that would qualify being a Honorable Man.
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Our chapel has a set of rose vestments that the priest didn't like, so on Gaudete Sunday, he ended up wearing purple instead. So after Mass, I offered to donate $1,500 towards a new set of rose vestments. He accepted. The next day, an announcement was made regarding an ecuмenical activity the church would be engaged in. Had I known about that activity, I would not have made the offer. But as it stands, the offer has been made and accepted.
What would John Wayne do? I know this is not a matter of sin/non-sin, but honor is the next most important thing to me. If a man doesn't have that, he doesn't have much. Would reneging now impact my honor?
No. An honorable Catholic would, upon realizing that this is not a Catholic Church, depart and never show his face there again. Donating money to a non-Catholic sect is not something a Catholic should do.
Oh, and you should explain to the person (I presume the priest) that you will never participate in his evil.
But, seriously, when you're part of the Novus Ordo sect, what on earth did you expect?
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The priest didn't wear the rose vestments on Guadete Sunday because he didn't like them? :facepalm:
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The priest didn't wear the rose vestments on Guadete Sunday because he didn't like them? :facepalm:
He said they were salmon colored, so he didn't wear them.
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The priest didn't wear the rose vestments on Guadete Sunday because he didn't like them? :facepalm:
Back before I escaped the Novus Ordo, a new priest came to our parish. He also refused to wear the rose vestments because he didn't like them. Funny thing was that they were the only vestments in the parish that were pre-Vatican 2 vestments--which is why, I think, he didn't like them. They were heavy. They might have been made of wool and not the very light weight rayon that all the other vestments were made of.
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He said they were salmon colored, so he didn't wear them.
That's funny. My old priest in the SSPX also refused to wear the Rose vestments. The reason he gave was because they were the wrong color. He said they were pink and not rose. To him they were supposed to be "salmon colored."
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The priest didn't wear the rose vestments on Guadete Sunday because he didn't like them? :facepalm:
Exactly my reaction. He sounds a bit over-precious and pampered.
When so many people are struggling to survive, with loss of jobs and businesses I believe it would be dishonourable for him to accept such an offer.
Having money to spare, you are very blessed. Why don’t you have a quiet word with him about how people suffer for lack of real needs. It might wake him up to reality. I heard from my friend who raises money for the Indian orphans that they are presently in grave need.
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Considering that the liturgical color is actually a choice on that day, the priest is within his rights to wear violet
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The priest didn't wear the rose vestments on Guadete Sunday because he didn't like them? :facepalm:
If I'm not mistaken, I think it is permitted to wear purple on Gaudete and Laetare Sundays.
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Considering that the liturgical color is actually a choice on that day, the priest is within his rights to wear violet
Ah, you beat me to it. That is my recollection as well.
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I'm clearly not a man, but I agree with what TKGS said.
I do think that the specific details of your situation matter. Perhaps you can shed more light on them?
I agree also. So, for instance, if I offer to lend you $1,000 and then find out you plan to use it to pay for an abortion ... all bets are off. Giving your "word" is not absolutely binding.
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Our chapel has a set of rose vestments that the priest didn't like, so on Gaudete Sunday, he ended up wearing purple instead. So after Mass, I offered to donate $1,500 towards a new set of rose vestments. He accepted. The next day, an announcement was made regarding an ecuмenical activity the church would be engaged in. Had I known about that activity, I would not have made the offer. But as it stands, the offer has been made and accepted.
What would John Wayne do? I know this is not a matter of sin/non-sin, but honor is the next most important thing to me. If a man doesn't have that, he doesn't have much. Would reneging now impact my honor?
What is this ecuмenical activity? If it's, say, joint services with Protestants, then I would back out and tell the priest exactly why. This would actually be a stronger statement than mere words against said activity.
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Are you in Minnesota? In another thread, it was posted at the SSPX is engaging in an ecuмenical activity with the FSSP.
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/sspx-kicking-off-holy-week-with-tradcuмenism/
I bet I know who is asking for advice... ;)
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Are you in Minnesota? In another thread, it was posted at the SSPX is engaging in an ecuмenical activity with the FSSP.
I bet I know who is asking for advice... ;)
That's why I asked about said Ecuмenical activity. I wouldn't consider ecuмenical activity with FSSP as some kind of GRAVE scandal. While I don't agree with their possession, they do profess to be Catholics. It's not like joint prayer services with Prots or Greek Orthodox or something.
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You're off the hook, buddy. When I read your OP, I thought you wanted to back out because of some personal grievance. In that case I would lean towards having to keep your word, other things being equal.
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But your objection is based on serious moral issues and possible condonement or assistance in evil. You're certainly exempt from fulfilling this.
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That being said, would an honorable man attend a church at which he cannot in good conscience donate a set of vestments? That might be something you want to consider. I'm leaning towards "No".
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That being said, would an honorable man attend a church at which he cannot in good conscience donate a set of vestments? That might be something you want to consider. I'm leaning towards "No".
I hate to criticize the OP of this thread, especially if it's who I think it is -- but you make a good point here, I must say. I certainly can't shoot it down.
It's hard to disagree with your reasoning.
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He said they were salmon colored, so he didn't wear them.
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That's funny. My old priest in the SSPX also refused to wear the Rose vestments. The reason he gave was because they were the wrong color. He said they were pink and not rose. To him they were supposed to be "salmon colored."
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I hate to say something bad about the clergy, but to the OP, you might as well save your money, because this man will not wear anything you buy.
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I have heard numerous priests agonize and quibble about rose vestments, agonizing over the precise shade they are supposed to be, and how they are not supposed to be pink, but salmon-colored or whatever else. (By the way, the rubrics use the word "rose-colored", and say nothing about salmons.) Many priests refused to wear rose vestments because they were supposed just not quite the right hue or shade.
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Finally it dawned on me what was really going on. They just have the normal male repugnance against wearing anything that looks pink, and are trying to hide it by quibbling about roses and salmon and similar things. He's basically saying, "Eeeww, pink! I'm not wearing that!" While it's perfectly normal and healthy for a man to refuse to wear pink in general, to allow such an attitude to trump a liturgical directive is wrong and childish. But priests are human beings like anyone else, and unfortunately some of them just can't bring themselves to wear rose-colored vestments.
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So if you buy another set that is supposedly the right hue, he will probably not wear them anyway, or if he wears it once or twice, he will eventually be replaced by another priest who will say they are either "too pink" or "too salmon", whichever seems to fit better.
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That's why I asked about said Ecuмenical activity. I wouldn't consider ecuмenical activity with FSSP as some kind of GRAVE scandal. While I don't agree with their possession, they do profess to be Catholics. It's not like joint prayer services with Prots or Greek Orthodox or something.
Calling anything w/ the FSSP ecuмenical is harsh. They're Catholics too.
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Calling anything w/ the FSSP ecuмenical is harsh. They're Catholics too.
Well this forum is dominated by members who do not believe the FSSP has valid holy orders.