Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on October 17, 2022, 11:38:36 PM
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For FSSP, ICKSP, SSPX, CMRI, RCI, IMBC, SGG
What are the populations of parishioners (including those who live far away and watch online masses from them) for each of these groups?
And what are the numbers of priests/brothers/monks/nuns for each of these groups?
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I doubt that anyone has this information handy. Don't be lazy, but apply your sleuthing skills and use internet search engines in an attempt to find answers.
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For FSSP, ICKSP, SSPX, CMRI, RCI, IMBC, SGG
What are the populations of parishioners (including those who live far away and watch online masses from them) for each of these groups?
And what are the numbers of priests/brothers/monks/nuns for each of these groups?
I would find this information interesting as well. Too bad such info has NOT been collated, ever.
There is no Nielson or Pew Research for Traddieland. There's no central organization like Rome or the Pope who has power over the world of Tradition. Google "Crisis in the Church", subheading "Vatican II". Ideally all the Trad groups would be mere Religious Orders under the same Catholic Church authority/structure, and there would be no Crisis in the Church. The Church would take its own census, and release its own official numbers. But we have a Crisis in the Church, so here we are.
Just for starters, you're talking about independent organizations which probably don't give all their "business" customer data out to the world at large. Even if they reported # of parishioners on their respective websites, it would be a BEST GUESS on their part, and not any kind of hard, scientific, or accurate figure like the US Census. In the worst-case, it would be an exaggeration or FOND WISH about their numbers, to make themselves look more like winners. Everyone wants to be part of the winning team. Human Psychology 101.
We're talking about lifeboats. Many Trads go to independent chapels affiliated with no larger group which might have a big website. That necessarily leaves out a crucial piece of information out of any "TOTAL NUMBER OF TRADS" figure. Also, Trads mistrust the government, are above-average concerned about privacy -- both of which are good things to-be-expected -- so I doubt a very high percent of Trads would consent to fill out any substantial survey.
Heaven only knows how many Trads attend a Mass associated with no "group" larger than 5 priests. How many Trads live almost completely offline, not only shunning Social Media but even all websites and forums? There are plenty.
Some Trads don't even want to be included in "parish directories" for large established groups like the SSPX. And thinking back to my SSPX days, I remember that parish directory being hopelessly out of date -- about 2 years after it was printed. People who had moved, passed on to the next life, gave up the Faith, went to the Indult, people I had never seen (myself being a regular and active parishioner), etc.
And even if a chapel released its "mailing list" or parishioner list -- how many of those are current, active members? As in, how many of them are likely to attend the very next Sunday Mass? I have personal experience that demonstrates that the size of one's mailing list is NOT the same as who shows up for every Mass!
So it's especially hard to get a snapshot, with so much in flux.
But when you consider all the variables, especially the nature of Trads and the distributed, guerilla, off-grid, resistance-movement nature of the Trad movement, it's not just near impossible but ACTUALLY impossible to ever get a 100% solid picture. You'd have to comb the entire country, looking for "priest holes" like during the English persecutions.
Recall that chapels can hide just about anywhere: rented facilities, homes, trailers, garages, basements, warehouses, you name it. Many groups are word-of-mouth or e-mail list only. So you can't find the chapel, you can't find the group.
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144,000 total.
That's my guess :trollface:
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And if you’re counting those without regular Mass or no Mass at all, ie. the plight of many in Canada, the number is even higher.
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For FSSP, ICKSP, SSPX, CMRI, RCI, IMBC, SGG
What are the populations of parishioners (including those who live far away and watch online masses from them) for each of these groups?
And what are the numbers of priests/brothers/monks/nuns for each of these groups?
A good question but one I don't think anyone besides God could answer.
The closest to answering your question that we might get would be to categorize which groups are larger or smaller perhaps?
In the U.S. I would guess:
#1. FSSP being largest
#2. Then the F-SSPX
#3. CMRI
#4. IMBC, SGG and Sanborn's groups are smaller but interconnected I think? The Resistance with Bishop Zendejas wasn't mentioned. It probably falls into about the same size of group as one of these? I am sure Matthew or someone else more connected with them knows better than I?
#5. ICKSP and RCI I am not as familiar with... So, I am guessing that they are smaller?
Anyone else have input, suggestions, or corrections for this?
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144,000 total.
That's my guess :trollface:
:laugh1:
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I don't have time to do anything with this info, but:
https://fssp.com/priestly-fraternity-of-st-peter-by-the-numbers/
https://sspx.org/en/general-statistics-about-sspx
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For FSSP, ICKSP, SSPX, CMRI, RCI, IMBC, SGG
What are the populations of parishioners (including those who live far away and watch online masses from them) for each of these groups?
And what are the numbers of priests/brothers/monks/nuns for each of these groups?
I could be wrong on this, but this is what I came up with:
FSSP, 45,987
ICKSP, 21,344
SSPX, 67,890
CMRI, 6,892
RCI, 456
IMBC, 345
SGG - 5,678
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I could be wrong on this, but this is what I came up with:
FSSP, 45,987
ICKSP, 21,344
SSPX, 67,890
CMRI, 6,892
RCI, 456
IMBC, 345
SGG - 5,678
Where did you get your numbers?
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Where did you get your numbers?
Where the sun don't shine.
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Where the sun don't shine.
That is correct, you figured it out. I just made it up based on my feelings. And unfortunately, I was feeling rather silly, plus this was on the Anonymous section, which made the combination even worse!
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I could be wrong on this, but this is what I came up with:
FSSP, 45,987
ICKSP, 21,344
SSPX, 67,890
CMRI, 6,892
RCI, 456
IMBC, 345
SGG - 5,678
I would have guessed (United States) --
SSPX > FSSP > CMRI > SSPV > ICKSP > RCI (last three being a tossup in my mind)
IMO, ICKSP is not really big in US, and IMBC practically non-existent
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US chapel count (rough numbers based on websites)
SSPX -- 125 chapels
CMRI -- 63 chapels
FSSP -- 50 chapels
SSPV -- 28 chapels (includes regular SSPV + CSPV, whatever the difference)
ICKSP -- 15 US chapels
https://www.institute-christ-king.org/institute-apostolate-map
RCI -- 13 priests, but no indication of how many chapels
I would guess that, despite the fact that CMRI have more chapels, FSSP would have more faithful (as they tend to get bigger churches)
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# of chapels is SO deceiving however.
Some chapels have 30 parishioners, others have 3,000 or more (St. Marys KS).
As you pointed out, FSSP gets full churches that can hold many hundreds -- so the question is, How full do they manage to pack these churches on Sunday?
SSPX sometimes, due to cheapness/re-allocating resources to build "monuments" and other reasons, often chooses to have 2 or even 3 Masses at an overcrowded chapel, rather than upgrade. Along the same lines, the SSPX will often MERGE two or more chapels together, so they can sell the "excess" real estate because they are greedy for money. They are greedy for real estate too, but only because it can be sold for money. Not so it can be used to save souls. Not unless the saving of souls ALSO gives them money and power.
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How many chapels get Sunday and Holy Day Mass? How many have a resident priest? How many have a school? How many would best be described as a "mission Chapel" where the entire property is pretty much a ghost town except for 3 hours on Sunday morning? How many Masses per month at these "chapels"? A chapel with 30 Masses a month (or more) is certainly a bigger deal than a (mission) chapel that gets Mass once or twice a month, or even 4 times a month.
How many of these "chapels" have a website or contact information of any kind? How many have a number where you can reach a priest for Extreme Unction? How many have a regular schedule for Confession?
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How many chapels get Sunday and Holy Day Mass? How many have a resident priest? How many have a school? How many would best be described as a "mission Chapel" where the entire property is pretty much a ghost town except for 3 hours on Sunday morning? How many Masses per month at these "chapels"? A chapel with 30 Masses a month (or more) is certainly a bigger deal than a (mission) chapel that gets Mass once or twice a month, or even 4 times a month.
How many of these "chapels" have a website or contact information of any kind? How many have a number where you can reach a priest for Extreme Unction? How many have a regular schedule for Confession?
We'll never really get those numbers. It's possible that if you called the various groups, they could provide these stats. It's not important enough for me to take the time to research it though.
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# of chapels is SO deceiving however.
Some chapels have 30 parishioners, others have 3,000 or more (St. Marys KS).
As you pointed out, FSSP gets full churches that can hold many hundreds -- so the question is, How full do they manage to pack these churches on Sunday?
SSPX sometimes, due to cheapness/re-allocating resources to build "monuments" and other reasons, often chooses to have 2 or even 3 Masses at an overcrowded chapel, rather than upgrade. Along the same lines, the SSPX will often MERGE two or more chapels together, so they can sell the "excess" real estate because they are greedy for money. They are greedy for real estate too, but only because it can be sold for money. Not so it can be used to save souls. Not unless the saving of souls ALSO gives them money and power.
Definitely a lot of focus on fundraising when I dealt with them... Very judgmental. Weren't exactly enthusiastic about catechizing me or anything. Were certainly enthusiastic about my money, though.