Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on December 18, 2023, 09:58:52 PM
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I’m not even sure if “without hosiery” is the correct term to refer to wearing heels with nothing on your feet, or if you would say “barefooted”. I don’t know, I’m a man and I’m not familiar with the terminology here.
What I do wonder is if someone knows whether this was allowed before Vatican 2.
It’s one thing to have nothing on your feet and wear those ugly sandals that are all broad, with thick soles and usually made of leather, you know like the ones you see religious people wear. I’m not talking about those. I’m talking about heels and other flat footed shoes/sandals that are very “attractive” and showcase the feet (assuming they have nice feet). It seems to me this is just not appropriate for Mass because it seems sensual, showing off flesh.
I’ve noticed younger girls wear the same kind of heels/open shoes but with hosiery with lace and stuff and that actually looks nice, not in a sensual way.
Anyway, hope this wasn’t too awkward.
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You're looking down in order to practice custody of the eyes and lo and behold naked feet!
I feel for ya buddy. Sometimes it seems like a guy just can't win. :cowboy:
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As far as I know, the Church has never condemned barefeet.
It is very difficult sometimes to draw a line and separate what is feminine and what is immodest. There is a question of culture and custom too.
I have a liking female feet, but, for me at least, ugly sandals won't make me uninterested. Nice feet are nice feet, no matter the woman is wearing.
Feet are not considered indecent, as you can see on every Moral Theology manual.
If you have a particular attraction to them, you need to find a way and work around it.
Women are usually not wearing indecent clothes at mass, so, you might be safer looking up than down. It is not like they are wearing bikinis and the only safe place to look is the ground.
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I’m not even sure if “without hosiery” is the correct term to refer to wearing heels with nothing on your feet, or if you would say “barefooted”. I don’t know, I’m a man and I’m not familiar with the terminology here.
What I do wonder is if someone knows whether this was allowed before Vatican 2.
It’s one thing to have nothing on your feet and wear those ugly sandals that are all broad, with thick soles and usually made of leather, you know like the ones you see religious people wear. I’m not talking about those. I’m talking about heels and other flat footed shoes/sandals that are very “attractive” and showcase the feet (assuming they have nice feet). It seems to me this is just not appropriate for Mass because it seems sensual, showing off flesh.
I’ve noticed younger girls wear the same kind of heels/open shoes but with hosiery with lace and stuff and that actually looks nice, not in a sensual way.
Anyway, hope this wasn’t too awkward.
Before Vat II women wouldn't have been caught dead in any kind of shoe without hosiery.
When I see it now I think it looks very crude.
That being said, remember Our Blessed Mother appeared at Lourdes bare foot albeit she had a golden rose on each foot.
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Of all the things to think about when going to Mass, whether a woman has stockings on or not is ridiculous. Let's worry if a man is wearing a tie or not. PAY ATTENTION TO THE ALTAR & NOT THE WOMEN.
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Before Vatican Ii, we wore scarves or hats, gloves, modest dresses, stockings and what used to called court shoes (I think).
I prefer to wear less formal but modest clothing. I see no issue with wearing sandals. I agree with this post.
Of all the things to think about when going to Mass, whether a woman has stockings on or not is ridiculous. Let's worry if a man is wearing a tie or not. PAY ATTENTION TO THE ALTAR & NOT THE WOMEN.
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This matter is culturally relative, unless your notion of the Church is solely 1950s USA.
:facepalm:
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Sandals are considered casual attire so I don't think they should be worn to church. Would you wear sandals to meet a king?
This idea tho of 'forbidding' certain types of clothing in church is a bit strange. If you're a Catholic you should know how to dress. I've never heard of a church forbidding certain clothing - unless it's N.O. - they do some strange things.
Regarding the original question -- were there guards at the door to check what women were wearing & what was 'allowed'? Who determined what was 'allowed'? Did they turn women away if they weren't wearing hose?
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:facepalm: Have you some sort of foot fetish? 👣 Or is there a particular female who shows too much leg? Perhaps it’s time to fix your gaze elsewhere! 🦵🏾🦵🏾 👀 ????
I think I read somewhere that Padre Pio made women wear solid colored thick stockings to the top of the thigh, bloomers, and hemlines at least 8” below the bottom of the knee. (How such a thing could be monitored beyond the hem length, however, I don’t know unless God told him.)
No, I do not recall there being Padre Pio rules in place pre-V2.
I CAN say that women and girls generally wore some kind of hosiery for Mass or dress-up unless one’s skirt was fairly long. Little girls wore tights, knee socks, or bobby socks. Older girls and women wore stockings, pantyhose, or knee-highs. Casual sandals like flip-flops, play shoes, or sneakers, just weren’t worn to Mass. The same applied to men. Unless you were a member of a discalced religious order, men didn’t wear sandals to Mass. As for seeing men’s legs, that was never an issue because all but very young boys wore long pants. If a young boy wore shorts, they were part of a suit and always included knee socks and shoes, such as one still sees in some Caribbean countries.
If the people come to Mass with too much leg showing, flip-flops or recreational footwear, short skirts or shorts on men and boys, do speak with your priest. In the meantime, keep your eyes on the altar, your missal, and your Rosary!
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In my experience, this is something that has only crept in in the last 30 years or so.
Before that, it just didn't happen, or rarely so. Similarly with men wearing jeans.
Neither were considered appropriate dress standards before the King of Kings.
I recall my shock when it first started happening among the younger generations.
I think there can also be a modesty issue, especially when not only the feet but a good part of the legs are revealed. A higher standard of modesty is required in the church. That's my opinion.
Certainly some of the female religious orders are discalced, but they do not reveal their legs.
It would be instructive to search guidelines for modesty in dress from earlier times when society was less given over to the enemies of our souls.
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It is not sinful for a woman to not wear stockings to Mass.
It is sinful for anyone to stare at her bare feet and feel lust.
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It is not sinful for a woman to not wear stockings to Mass.
It is sinful for anyone to stare at her bare feet and feel lust.
Now I would say that how a person dresses themselves can scandalize others, it does seem a bit extreme that someone would feel lust from someone's feet... Also some men might find a women more attractive when they are wearing stockings/nice shoes.
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Now I would say that how a person dresses themselves can scandalize others, it does seem a bit extreme that someone would feel lust from someone's feet... Also some men might find a women more attractive when they are wearing stockings/nice shoes.
I'm speaking in general. I'm not going to list ever scenario that a man might feel lust. Men have lusted after aged cloistered nuns after all.
It's a given that all women should practice modesty at all times. A modestly dressed woman wearing open shoes with no stockings commit no sin if no other sinful behavior is committed. The lusting man commits the sin.
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Back in days of Jesus, they probably wore sandals with their good clothes if they went to a wedding.
I usually wear sandals in the summertime to Mass. During winter/fall I’ll wear boots or ballet flats to Mass. I no longer wear stockings with my dresses. I have considered wool stockings in winter.
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"Before Vatican 2" includes lots of centuries when women's hemlines were long enough to cover their ankles. If they wore hosiery, for most it was a basic necessity, not a fashion statement.
Rather than idly checking out feminine footwear, try to keep your eyes on the altar or read some short devotions. And since there's no limit to the form that distractions can take, this can apply to anyone whether male or female.
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I'm not familiar with hosiery, you mean tights? I think the skin-coloured and pure black ones are okay. The other types can be sensual. But again, if your skirt is long enough, it wouldn't matter.
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I'm not familiar with hosiery, you mean tights? I think the skin-coloured and pure black ones are okay. The other types can be sensual. But again, if your skirt is long enough, it wouldn't matter.
Hosiery is what we call pantyhose today. Back in the 50's and 60's it was considered very unseemly to go bare legged to Mass or any where formal. Then over time things became less dressy and more comfort oriented.
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Wearing sandals or no socks to Mass is always good unless the women shaves her feet. If she leaves her feet thickly haired it should be ok. Otherwise she should wear shoes with full coverage or thick winter boots with dark socks, the boots can have pom poms on top as long as they match the color of the boots so as not to distract.
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Wearing sandals or no socks to Mass is always good unless the women shaves her feet. If she leaves her feet thickly haired it should be ok. Otherwise she should wear shoes with full coverage or thick winter boots with dark socks, the boots can have pom poms on top as long as they match the color of the boots so as not to distract.
Are talking about Hobbit women?
I don't know about you people, but I have yet to see a woman with "thickly haired feet". Lucky me.
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:laugh1::laugh2::jester:
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I don't know about you people, but I have yet to see a woman with "thickly haired feet". Lucky me.
I hear it's all the rage in Europe.
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Wearing sandals or no socks to Mass is always good unless the women shaves her feet. If she leaves her feet thickly haired it should be ok. Otherwise she should wear shoes with full coverage or thick winter boots with dark socks, the boots can have pom poms on top as long as they match the color of the boots so as not to distract.
This hairy enough?
(https://i.imgur.com/aSG1mw8.jpg)
:laugh1: What a funny thread.
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:laugh1::laugh2::jester:
This!
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This hairy enough?
(https://i.imgur.com/aSG1mw8.jpg)
:laugh1: What a funny thread.
OK, so which female CI member's feet are those?
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OK, so which female CI member's feet are those?
Which ever one it is could go to church without socks lol
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Hosiery/pantyhose is part of a type of style.
The see through hosiery was created to:
· Smooth the look of the legs
· Filter /coverup any imperfections
· Bring attention to the legs
Stockings/tights are opaque and were utilized to keep women warm and assist with functionality for shoes.
While hosiery retains the functionality for shoe wearing, the primary reason was for aesthetics. Additionally, one could not observe any of this without the shortening of the length of the skirt.
The lack of hosiery seems to be an example of the relaxation of dress, manners, and etiquette in society overall.
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Does anyone understand what "culturally-conditioned" means?
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I'm not familiar with hosiery, you mean tights? I think the skin-coloured and pure black ones are okay. The other types can be sensual. But again, if your skirt is long enough, it wouldn't matter.
The word hosiery derives from the word hose.
hose
noun (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noun)
Definition of hose (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hose)
as in sock
a close-fitting covering for the foot and leg
example: a reenactor dressed like Benjamin Franklin in waistcoat, breeches, and hose
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Does anyone understand what "culturally-conditioned" means?
Cultural conditioning is a process through which we absorb and interpret the influences, norms, and messaging from our environment and translate them into what we believe to be acceptable behaviors.
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I see nothing wrong with the attraction to feet, per se.
The problem is how this man is going to deal with it.
If he is so attracted to feet that he sins mortally when he sees a woman wearing sandals, then he is going to have a hard time getting to Heaven.
If it is just an eccentric aspect of his sɛҳuąƖity, then he is probably going to find a way around it.
We all like to look at the beautiful faces of young women, don't we? Yet we don't require them to wear burkas. I believe that feet can be the same. I have never heard about a man who sins mortally looking at a pretty face.
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Hosiery/pantyhose is part of a type of style.
The see through hosiery was created to:
· Smooth the look of the legs
· Filter /coverup any imperfections
· Bring attention to the legs
Stockings/tights are opaque and were utilized to keep women warm and assist with functionality for shoes.
While hosiery retains the functionality for shoe wearing, the primary reason was for aesthetics. Additionally, one could not observe any of this without the shortening of the length of the skirt.
The lack of hosiery seems to be an example of the relaxation of dress, manners, and etiquette in society overall.
A down vote for explaining hosiery? Lol!
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No. A down-vote for Aleah herself.
14 (https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=6&l=14-#x)For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. 15 (https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=6&l=15-#x)But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.
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I see nothing wrong with the attraction to feet, per se.
The problem is how this man is going to deal with it.
If he is so attracted to feet that he sins mortally when he sees a woman wearing sandals, then he is going to have a hard time getting to Heaven.
If it is just an eccentric aspect of his sɛҳuąƖity, then he is probably going to find a way around it.
We all like to look at the beautiful faces of young women, don't we? Yet we don't require them to wear burkas. I believe that feet can be the same. I have never heard about a man who sins mortally looking at a pretty face.
I'm a guy who's attracted to some to most women's feet and as soon as women found out that many men are attracted to their feet they started showing them off more and wearing sandals quite often to get the validation of men finding delight in looking at their feet.
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I'm a guy who's attracted to some to most women's feet and as soon as women found out that many men are attracted to their feet they started showing them off more and wearing sandals quite often to get the validation of men finding delight in looking at their feet.
I find feet 'disgusting' not sure why but it's something that isn't 'clean' as you walk on them constantly. If anything shoes on a women can be more appealing than barefeet.
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Lot of nonsense going on in this thread. Probably a lot of immodest women who use Sunday to show off their bodies.
I'll put it this way ladies; if there is nothing remotely appealing about feet and it is only by an exceedingly-rare perversion that a man could be aroused in some way by their aspect, then why do streetwalkers UNIVERSALLY have painted toenails, bare feet, and 4-inch heels?
Alas, many a dame have I seen like this at Mass. Their husbands/fathers are to blame.
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Lot of nonsense going on in this thread. Probably a lot of immodest women who use Sunday to show off their bodies.
I'll put it this way ladies; if there is nothing remotely appealing about feet and it is only by an exceedingly-rare perversion that a man could be aroused in some way by their aspect, then why do streetwalkers UNIVERSALLY have painted toenails, bare feet, and 4-inch heels?
Alas, many a dame have I seen like this at Mass. Their husbands/fathers are to blame.
Women also paint their fingernails and wear rings. Are men aroused by the sight of female hands?
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Women also paint their fingernails and wear rings. Are men aroused by the sight of female hands?
Only if their hands have been shaved.
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Only if their hands have been shaved.
:laugh1:
Are these modest enough:
(https://i.imgur.com/bwt6GdJ.jpg)
I hope this image isn't a temptation for Yeti. ;)
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:laugh1:
Are these modest enough:
(https://i.imgur.com/bwt6GdJ.jpg)
I hope this image isn't a temptation for Yeti. ;)
While I understand the reference to Yeti here (compare his screen name profile picture with the picture above), just want to point it out in case someone might think you're casting aspersions on his character.
Yeti:
(https://www.cathinfo.com/avs/avatar_6659_1574125417.png)
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While I understand the reference to Yeti here (compare his screen name profile picture with the picture above), just want to point it out in case someone might think you're casting aspersions on his character.
Yeti:
(https://www.cathinfo.com/avs/avatar_6659_1574125417.png)
Thanks Lad! It is easy for misunderstandings to happen in this format.
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Thanks Lad! It is easy for misunderstandings to happen in this format.
This post was made anonymously by Yeti. :laugh1:
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Women also paint their fingernails and wear rings. Are men aroused by the sight of female hands?
As of yet, I've never heard of such thing as a hand fetish. So no, probably not.
But at the same time women don't really adorn their hands now do they?
If a woman came to mass with her hands like this I might have something to say. Anyway, all of this absurdity is just another argument for men to be strong and decide what their wives wear. Otherwise women turn Sunday Mass into shameful pageantry.
(https://i.imgur.com/bNw3K7F.png)
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As of yet, I've never heard of such thing as a hand fetish. So no, probably not.
Don't google it. More stuff I didn't need to know. :( :facepalm: :laugh1: what a world...
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No. A down-vote for Aleah herself.
That's so petty it is hilarious!:laugh2:
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That's so petty it is hilarious!:laugh2:
Edgar must still be holding a grudge...
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Stop oggling women's feet and keep your eyes in your own missal. :facepalm:
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I find feet 'disgusting' not sure why but it's something that isn't 'clean' as you walk on them constantly. If anything shoes on a women can be more appealing than barefeet.
Feet ugly? Why? I’ve always taken good care of my feet, wash, use pumice stone if they get calloused, wear well-fitting shoes and hose for comfort and health, not fashion. In summer I go barefoot or don flip flops for casual wear. In winter, I wear toe socks around the house. At age 64, my feet have no callouses, no bunions, no hammertoes, blisters, or misshapen toes. No ingrown, too thick, or fungus or the nails. I got athlete’s foot long ago and from a college dormitory shower and promptly treated and got rid of it. I certainly do not have Darwinian feet like the hairy ones shown in the picture earlier in this thread. I have never been to a podiatrist because there is no need for his services. My feet are lovely compared with those of most women my age.
Nonetheless, I will not post a photo or identify myself lest I run into the OP and cause him to lose his soul!
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:laugh1:
Are these modest enough:
(https://i.imgur.com/bwt6GdJ.jpg)
I hope this image isn't a temptation for Yeti. ;)
:laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:
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I don’t care about hosiery or no hosiery. But I’m just going to say it: high heels are not tasteful footwear especially for Mass.
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I can't believe there's really 4 pages dedicated to whether or not women should wear hosiery or if bare legs are ok when attending Mass.
I can't believe I read all of it!
Perhaps we should debate the merits of men wearing white socks vs black with their Sunday pants? Why pick on women all the time?
Sheesh.
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Women should dress modestly for Mass.
"heels" were invented by men, to cause a woman to walk differently, in such a way that it accentuates a woman's butt -- it exaggerates her natural hip movement.
First of all, keep in mind that women are different from men in FAR MORE WAYS than mere "how they use the bathroom". For starters, women have different hip structure, this design by God obviously had childbearing in mind.
A woman walks differently than a man, due to how her hips are much broader. There is a hip movement there, a slight rocking or swaying of the butt, that doesn't happen with men at all.
Guess what? That natural butt movement is amplified when she wears high heeled shoes a.k.a. "high heels".
Just stating facts here -- YOU WOMEN go ahead and decide if you want to wear high heels, KNOWING what's going on in your caboose area every time you take a step.
By the way, "walking like a woman" is one of the ways gαys try to play make-believe. They really have to work at it, and it comes off exaggerated and unnatural, just like the way they talk.
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A woman walks differently than a man, due to how her hips are much broader. There is a hip movement there, a slight rocking or swaying of the butt, that doesn't happen with men at all.
Matthew, clearly you have not seen recently the walk of many Novus Ordo bishops in these USA. They most definitely have swaying posteriors as they strut to and from their eucharistic tables.
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They most definitely have swaying posteriors as they strut to and from their eucharistic tables.
For some (of the light-in-the-loafers sort), under conscious musculoskeletal control. For others, adiposity has its own spontaneous wave function.
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"heels" were invented by men, to cause a woman to walk differently, in such a way that it accentuates a woman's butt -- it exaggerates her natural hip movement.
WRONG..."heels" were invented by men FOR MEN !
"Heeled shoes were originally worn by men, and have been found in the histories of 10th century Persian and 3500 BC Egyptian life. While this style of footwear was originally geared towards the needs of men, the 18th century saw women begin to adopt high heels into their fashion."
"High heels were used in 10th century Persia for men. These shoes were used for cavalry men and enabled them to maintain stability while standing in the stirrups."
https://themoderndirectory.com/education/the-history-of-high-heels/
A woman walks differently than a man, due to how her hips are much broader. There is a hip movement there, a slight rocking or swaying of the butt, that doesn't happen with men at all.
Guess what? That natural butt movement is amplified when she wears high heeled shoes a.k.a. "high heels".
Wrong again. When a woman wears heels her posture becomes more upright (you can't slouch in heels) she walks with her legs closer together and her steps are of a shorter length. Perhaps it is because of the short steps that YOU think her hips are swaying in an exaggerated way.
Some nun's in full habit before Vat II wore 2 inch heels and they walked VERY demurely.
Below is a picture of Sister Camille of the School Sisters of Notre Dame in heels.
(https://i.imgur.com/gH2ATsc.png)
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I'm not "wrong".
High heels are immodest, in the same way tight-fitting pants, low-cut tops, short skirts, or see-thru material is immodest.
They accentuate things that should be hidden by modest clothing.
- Women’s breasts look larger. High heels cause the back to over-arch, which thrusts the breasts forward, making them appear larger and more prominent. Many studies have shown that prominent breasts attract more male attention.
- Women’s buttocks appear larger because they are lifted in heels. Some research indicates that as perceived buttock size increases, men feel more attracted to women.
- While walking in heels, women’s hips and buttocks sway more because heels shorten women’s gait.
- Women’s feet look smaller. While there are men who feel attracted to all manner of women—thin, heavy, short, tall—men evolved to be generally bigger and taller than women, and to feel attracted to women who are more petite than they are. High heels make women’s feet look more petite and, therefore, more attractive.
But this increased desirability comes at significant cost: High heels are uncomfortable and substantially increase risk of foot soreness, blisters, bunions, falls, ankle sprains, plantar fasciitis, ingrown toenails, nerve damage in the feet and legs, and knee and back pain.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201612/the-uncanny-psychology-high-heels
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WRONG..."heels" were invented by men FOR MEN !
Meh, those examples (except for a couple examples of royalty ... who appeared rather effeminate themselves) entailed heels used for utilitarian purposes, primarily to keep their feet in stirrups while riding horses. We're clearly talking about their use among average people for esthetic purposes.
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When a woman wears heels her posture becomes more upright (you can't slouch in heels) she walks with her legs closer together and her steps are of a shorter length.
Nonsense. I've heard from multiple chiropractors about how heels are wrecking women's backs, since it creates an unnatural posture. They're largely used to 1) change the way the hips moved, but even more, 2) to lift the calf in order to produce "shaplier" legs.
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201612/the-uncanny-psychology-high-heels
But does heel height increase women’s attractiveness (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/beauty) to men? In a series of four experiments, French researchers found that, strikingly, it does, and as heel height increases, men pay more attention (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/attention) to women—much more attention.
And we think that women don't know this and it isn't why they submit to the (often) torture of wearing heels that they can't even walk properly on?
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Women should dress modestly for Mass.
"heels" were invented by men, to cause a woman to walk differently, in such a way that it accentuates a woman's butt -- it exaggerates her natural hip movement.
First of all, keep in mind that women are different from men in FAR MORE WAYS than mere "how they use the bathroom". For starters, women have different hip structure, this design by God obviously had childbearing in mind.
A woman walks differently than a man, due to how her hips are much broader. There is a hip movement there, a slight rocking or swaying of the butt, that doesn't happen with men at all.
Guess what? That natural butt movement is amplified when she wears high heeled shoes a.k.a. "high heels".
Just stating facts here -- YOU WOMEN go ahead and decide if you want to wear high heels, KNOWING what's going on in your caboose area every time you take a step.
By the way, "walking like a woman" is one of the ways gαys try to play make-believe. They really have to work at it, and it comes off exaggerated and unnatural, just like the way they talk.
I thought heels were invented for mens for better grip on horse riding? Unless you mean afterwards for women.
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- Women’s feet look smaller. While there are men who feel attracted to all manner of women—thin, heavy, short, tall—men evolved to be generally bigger and taller than women, and to feel attracted to women who are more petite than they are. High heels make women’s feet look more petite and, therefore, more attractive.
But this increased desirability comes at significant cost: High heels are uncomfortable and substantially increase risk of foot soreness, blisters, bunions, falls, ankle sprains, plantar fasciitis, ingrown toenails, nerve damage in the feet and legs, and knee and back pain.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201612/the-uncanny-psychology-high-heels
While I agree with 99% of this article, just not this part.
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I can't believe there's really 4 pages dedicated to whether or not women should wear hosiery or if bare legs are ok when attending Mass.
I can't believe I read all of it!
Perhaps we should debate the merits of men wearing white socks vs black with their Sunday pants? Why pick on women all the time?
Sheesh.
Why did you think it was worth it to bring it back from the dead? :facepalm: