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Author Topic: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?  (Read 2617 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
« on: August 11, 2023, 02:50:26 PM »
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    • Someone posted in the "Resistance Bishops in Asia" thread on the anonymous forum on here that there is a video of Bishop Slupski not saying the form correctly during his episcopal consecrations, thereby potentially invaliding the rite.  https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/resistance-bishops-in-asia/

    The poster wrote

    "Even if Pfeiffer was conditionally consecrated “correctly” by Webster, there are still doubts. 

    There exists a video of +Slupski (who consecrated Webster) consecrating a man where the essential form is messed up more than Webster’s error while consecrating Pfeiffer. 

    There are serious doubts to the validity of ordinations and consecrations performed by +Slupski.  May he rest in peace. "


    To the person or any other person that has that video, you could please post it, or at least let us know where it can be found.  

    Many Catholics receive sacraments from Slupski line Bishops and priests so this is very important.

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #1 on: August 11, 2023, 02:53:28 PM »
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    • Video probably doesn't exist.  I've seen a number of anti-SV and anti-Thuc people here trolling and creating FUD by claiming the existence of, if not this video, then others of a similar nature, but none have been produced in the time they've played that game.  Take this thread out of "Anonymous".  Why is it here?  All this does is to open it up to the same trolls.  Could be some Kelly-ite SSPV troll or an R&R or someone else with an agenda who's out trolling.  Plus, the credibility of the poster matters.  I saw one clown who impugned a Thuc-line bishop for making "upside-down" crosses during the episcopal blessing, when it was just a tad bit of sloppiness, and I could show Leo XIII and Pius XII on video doing it in similar fashion.  That's the type of nonsense you can find out there from mentally imbalanced individuals.  And posting this in Anonymous is just feeding the trolls.
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #2 on: August 11, 2023, 03:24:43 PM »
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    • Bishop Slupski, one who ordains married men to the priesthood.  One being Dr. Thomas Drowlesky.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #3 on: August 11, 2023, 04:26:46 PM »
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    • Thank you for making this thread. I saw that post as well. The poster who made the claim needs to provide the proof. 
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #4 on: August 11, 2023, 06:14:15 PM »
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    • The video indeed exists.  It has been edited to remove those who were present, but it clearly shows +Slupski.  The consecrating Preface is with the video.. The last sentence is considered essential for validity.

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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #5 on: August 11, 2023, 07:54:38 PM »
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    • One error doesn't mean it wasn't corrected.  One error also doesn't mean that this error was made in every consecration.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #6 on: August 11, 2023, 09:26:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on August 11, 2023, 06:14:15 PM
    The video indeed exists.  It has been edited to remove those who were present, but it clearly shows +Slupski.  The consecrating Preface is with the video.. The last sentence is considered essential for validity.


    Thank you very much!
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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #7 on: August 12, 2023, 12:00:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on August 11, 2023, 06:14:15 PM
    The video indeed exists.  It has been edited to remove those who were present, but it clearly shows +Slupski.  The consecrating Preface is with the video.. The last sentence is considered essential for validity.


    Could anyone here who knew +Slupski confirm that he looked like the bishop claimed to be him in said video?
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    I recant many opinions on the crisis in the Church and moral theology that I have espoused on here from at least 2019-2021 don't take my postings from that time as well as 2022 possibly too seriously.

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #8 on: August 12, 2023, 02:15:34 AM »
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    • I honestly can't believe how careless these bishops are. How hard can it be to learn one sentence correctly???
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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #9 on: August 12, 2023, 07:27:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on August 12, 2023, 02:15:34 AM
    I honestly can't believe how careless these bishops are. How hard can it be to learn one sentence correctly???
    In their defense, they might not have been aware of the designation of the essential form by Pius XII as clerics aren't online as much but one could argue in these times it would be gravely negligent of them to not know. I could understand how a bishop could mess the form up if the text were small or if the font was similar to that of the manuscripts of the middle ages. Nonetheless, I believe that the Roman Pontifical should have those words bolded or something to set them apart to make sure the form doesn't get messed up. 
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    I recant many opinions on the crisis in the Church and moral theology that I have espoused on here from at least 2019-2021 don't take my postings from that time as well as 2022 possibly too seriously.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #10 on: August 12, 2023, 08:29:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on August 11, 2023, 06:14:15 PM
    The video indeed exists.  It has been edited to remove those who were present, but it clearly shows +Slupski.  The consecrating Preface is with the video.. The last sentence is considered essential for validity.

    Form in the video was wrong.  It appears that he was having vision problems, since he did seem competent in Latin basic on the fluency with which he pronounced the word he could read, and you could see him bending closer to the book.  Problem with this video is where it cuts off.  At the very end you can see him taking something over to the altar, bending down and examining something.  Is it possible that he realized that he messed it up and was taking it aside to read it again and then proceeded to make another attempt at it?  We can't know based on where this video was cut off.  Why was this video edited at all?  There's no reason to "hide" the identity of "those present", since episcopal consecrations are public affairs of the Church.  Is it possible that it was edited for other reasons, such as to hide a re-attempt at the form?  Could either Bishop Slupski himself or one of the MCs pointed out the defect to him, resulting in the part at the end where he looks like he's studying something at the very end, when the video is cut off?

    Whom was he consecrating a bishop at this time?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #11 on: August 12, 2023, 08:36:30 AM »
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    • If you look at the video from 4:00 - 4:24, he goes silent right after the essential form, looking puzzled, and he takes the book over to the altar and bends over, possibly for a better view under better lighting, examining the book for a long time, appearing a bit confused.  Looks like a booklet was on top of the main Ritual, or he was using an alternative edition, possibly a larger-print version, due to the obvious struggle with vision / eyesight.  I suspect that he was re-examining it because he knew he messed it up and then could very well have attempted it again.  But the video was "edited" to "protect identities".  And, if that wasn't the case, do we know that someone else didn't catch the error in the video and that he didn't "fix" the problem later?  Unlike Bishop Pfeiffer, Bishop Slupski appears to be a humble man and wouldn't refuse due to his ego.

    Produce a link to the entire video.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #12 on: August 12, 2023, 09:57:03 AM »
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    • The video is troubling, but it isn't quite analogous to the Webster video for the reasons Ladislaus pointed out. Especially with older clerics, honest mistakes can be made due to age--these are not problems of incompetence nor of insufficient training/knowledge. The objection to Webster is that he literally didn't know what he was doing (incompetence). The video of Slupski appears to show a serious mistake which he may actually have caught. That doesn't speak to carelessness, but the opposite. 

    I once assisted at the Mass of a very old priest who forgot to do the consecration. A layman approached and made father aware of this. Apparently, the Church actually provides liturgical rules for instances like this (the priest is supposed to return to the offertory if he finds himself ahead of the consecration without having actually performed the consecration). The existence of such instructions suggests that the Church understands that even amongst her clerics, whose training she insists be rigorous and whose competence she insists be pristine, may nevertheless through reasons other than incompetence make invalidating errors. These errors are not tolerated nor condoned, but they are acknowledged as possible. Two cents anyways. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #13 on: August 12, 2023, 10:21:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on August 12, 2023, 09:57:03 AM
    The video is troubling, but it isn't quite analogous to the Webster video for the reasons Ladislaus pointed out. Especially with older clerics, honest mistakes can be made due to age--these are not problems of incompetence nor of insufficient training/knowledge. The objection to Webster is that he literally didn't know what he was doing (incompetence). The video of Slupski appears to show a serious mistake which he may actually have caught. That doesn't speak to carelessness, but the opposite.

    I once assisted at the Mass of a very old priest who forgot to do the consecration. A layman approached and made father aware of this. Apparently, the Church actually provides liturgical rules for instances like this (the priest is supposed to return to the offertory if he finds himself ahead of the consecration without having actually performed the consecration). The existence of such instructions suggests that the Church understands that even amongst her clerics, whose training she insists be rigorous and whose competence she insists be pristine, may nevertheless through reasons other than incompetence make invalidating errors. These errors are not tolerated nor condoned, but they are acknowledged as possible. Two cents anyways.

    Agreed.  If this wasn't corrected, then I would agree that it was not valid.  But we don't know whether it was corrected or not.  That last 25 seconds of the video suggest that Bishop Slupski realized something was wrong.  He took the book, placed it on the altar, presumably under better lighting, to have a look ... and may have been a prelude to his turning back around and trying it again.  We just can't tell due to where the video abruptly ended.  I could tell by the way he was pronouncing the Latin that it was fluent ... except where it appeared he may have been struggling to see the text.  You see him leaning close to the book.  All that suggests an issue with his eyesight rather than a lack of fluency in Latin.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Video of Bishop Slupski messing up episcopal consecration?
    « Reply #14 on: August 12, 2023, 11:09:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 12, 2023, 10:21:41 AM
    Agreed.  If this wasn't corrected, then I would agree that it was not valid.  But we don't know whether it was corrected or not.  That last 25 seconds of the video suggest that Bishop Slupski realized something was wrong.  He took the book, placed it on the altar, presumably under better lighting, to have a look ... and may have been a prelude to his turning back around and trying it again.  We just can't tell due to where the video abruptly ended.  I could tell by the way he was pronouncing the Latin that it was fluent ... except where it appeared he may have been struggling to see the text.  You see him leaning close to the book.  All that suggests an issue with his eyesight rather than a lack of fluency in Latin.
    I can't agree on the fluency... There are several mistakes, whether due to eyesight or whatever, that make the Latin unintelligible.  If he were fluent, he would have caught these errors as he was making them by realizing, "What I am saying makes no sense."
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