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Author Topic: Debate about Sedevacantism  (Read 1150 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Debate about Sedevacantism
« on: November 14, 2020, 03:39:51 PM »
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    • I live in the Columbus, Ohio area, and am trying to establish a Resistance presence here. I started working with Bishop Pfeiffer, but I would like to know if his apostalate is one I can trust. If not, is there any priest who can stop by Columbus on his travels? There is a very small group of us, but in order to receive the sacraments we are reduced to attending CMRI chapels, Byzantine Liturgy, or some of them go to Indult Mass. The Byzantine Church here is as saturated in modernism as the rest of the Novus Ordo parishes around. I absolutely refuse to go to indult Mass!

    Please, let us know if there is anything anyone can do to help us.

    God bless!!!

    W.P.
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    Offline donkath

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #1 on: November 14, 2020, 07:06:47 PM »
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    • It is a pity your thread has been side-tracked by a sedevacantist.   The good part is that it has given you the opportunity to prove that you are truly resisting all the heresies of the counterfeit newchurch and its anti-christian 'doctrines'.   If you get in touch with Fr. Chazal or Fr. MacDonald they will advise you.  Matthew would have their email addresses.
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    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #2 on: November 14, 2020, 07:12:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on November 14, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
    Oh please. The reason no sedes outside of Ibranyi and MHFM believe in EENS is because they know they are outside the Church and don't want to condemn themselves in their arrogance.
    lol no the reason why is because for better or for worse most of Tradition is in some way indebted to Archbishop Lefebvre, and he taught a looser view of EENS (never denied it.)

    Ibryani is absolutely a joke.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #3 on: November 14, 2020, 07:20:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on November 14, 2020, 07:12:15 PM
    lol no the reason why is because for better or for worse most of Tradition is in some way indebted to Archbishop Lefebvre, and he taught a looser view of EENS (never denied it.)

    Ibryani is absolutely a joke.
    No, the most liberal sedes on EENS are the CMRI who were founded by the drug addicted sodomite Shuckhardt before the SSPX even existed, independent of Lefebvre, so it is not solely because of his influence.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #4 on: November 14, 2020, 07:32:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on November 14, 2020, 07:23:18 PM
    Ibranyi and Matatics, and those like them, and to a lesser degree MHFM are the only sedes worthy of respect. MHFM are the only traditional Catholics at all who evangelize effectively. The other trads just let the world go to hell hoping that BOD will save the 8 billion souls who they failed to evangelize.
    Sede laymen evangelizing, like protestant "missionaries." Who needs a clergy, when you have the laity who can do everything better, right? 
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #5 on: November 14, 2020, 07:41:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on November 14, 2020, 07:38:24 PM
    None of the trad clergy evangelize. Better laymen than nobody. Are you going to condemn the laymen for trying to do what the clergy refuse to do?
    How very Vatican ll. The rise of the laity. 
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #6 on: November 14, 2020, 08:42:56 PM »
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    • St. Margaret Mary Chapel
    1000 Scioto Street
    Urbana, OH 43078
    Sunday Mass 10:00 am
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #7 on: November 15, 2020, 04:27:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on November 14, 2020, 08:08:05 PM
    What is "the Mass of John XVIII"?  And why would R&R use it instead of the Tridentine missal?
    Sorry, I meant the Mass of John XXIII. 
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #8 on: November 15, 2020, 07:47:14 AM »
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    • Well, let me rephrase myself:

    Does Ibranyi still believe that there's been no pope in 700 years? Then he's still not a Catholic.

    If he has recanted to regular sedevacantism, then he is.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #9 on: November 15, 2020, 08:18:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on November 15, 2020, 07:47:14 AM
    Well, let me rephrase myself:

    Does Ibranyi still believe that there's been no pope in 700 years? Then he's still not a Catholic.

    If he has recanted to regular sedevacantism, then he is.
    I thought it was more like 1000 years.  Just thumbing through his "RJMI Refutations" here, he says "the Great Apostasy" began in ARSH 1033.  (A nod there to Ann Barnhardt, she's one sharp lady.)  RJMI comes very close to being a highly mutated Western Rite Orthodox with a prejudice towards the papacy (if that makes any sense).

    I don't even begin to agree where his conclusions have led him, but I have to give the man credit, he writes very, very well, and he is one diligent scholar.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #10 on: November 15, 2020, 09:55:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on November 15, 2020, 07:47:14 AM
    Well, let me rephrase myself:

    Does Ibranyi still believe that there's been no pope in 700 years? Then he's still not a Catholic.

    If he has recanted to regular sedevacantism, then he is.
    I see no essential difference between regular sedes and Ibranyi. He is just a more extreme example of regular sedeism. Why does it have to stop with John XXIII? I remember a sede who used to post here going crazy and declaring schism over another sede who was just like him but also rejected the papacy of Pius XII. Schism! If I were to become a sede I would consider rejecting Pius XII also. If Ibranyi is of good will he is just as Catholic, or not, as regular sedes.
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    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #11 on: November 15, 2020, 11:06:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on November 14, 2020, 07:12:15 PM
    lol no the reason why is because for better or for worse most of Tradition is in some way indebted to Archbishop Lefebvre, and he taught a looser view of EENS (never denied it.)

    Ibryani is absolutely a joke.
    I agree with what you said, but I accidentally downvoted your post. My stupid thumb...
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #12 on: November 15, 2020, 03:53:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on November 15, 2020, 09:55:44 AM
    I see no essential difference between regular sedes and Ibranyi. He is just a more extreme example of regular sedeism. Why does it have to stop with John XXIII?
    .
    Because John XXIII was the one who started the current crisis in the Church. Sedevacantism is not an arbitrary rejection of popes. It is an attempt to explain an unprecedented crisis in the Church, one that is incompatible with Catholic theology on the papacy if you accept John XXIII and his successors as popes.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #13 on: November 15, 2020, 05:00:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on November 15, 2020, 03:53:05 PM
    .
    Because John XXIII was the one who started the current crisis in the Church. Sedevacantism is not an arbitrary rejection of popes. It is an attempt to explain an unprecedented crisis in the Church, one that is incompatible with Catholic theology on the papacy if you accept John XXIII and his successors as popes.
    Silly Yeti.   ;)
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Debate about Sedevacantism
    « Reply #14 on: November 17, 2020, 06:13:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on November 14, 2020, 07:20:05 PM
    No, the most liberal sedes on EENS are the CMRI who were founded by the drug addicted sodomite Shuckhardt before the SSPX even existed, independent of Lefebvre, so it is not solely because of his influence.
    You may be right, but my bigger point is that this idea that large swaths of Trad clergy "don't believe in EENS" is silly.
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