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Traditional Catholic Faith => Anonymous Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 12:07:14 PM

Title: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 12:07:14 PM
I'm making this an anonymous thread because I would very much appreciate an answer to this and am afraid that if the men here who would be able to answer this saw who started the thread, they'd ignore it.

Would some knowledgeable men here be so kind as to lay out here what the Church always taught regarding the moslems?  Please?

Has the Church always taught that we worship the same God?  If so, how do they account for their female genital mutilation, incest, pedophilia, killing of non-moslems, just to name a few things?
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 01:06:10 PM
The essencial and basics are Muslims worship "Allah" and his prophet muhammed. Catholics worship the trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all equally. Moslems reject the trinity. Moslems do not worship the same God as us, they worship a false man made created God. 

Quote
"Whoever (https://biblehub.com/greek/3956.htm) denies (https://biblehub.com/greek/720.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Son (https://biblehub.com/greek/5207.htm) does not have (https://biblehub.com/greek/2192.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father; (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) whoever (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) confesses (https://biblehub.com/greek/3670.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Son (https://biblehub.com/greek/5207.htm) has (https://biblehub.com/greek/2192.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) as well. (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) " 1 John 2:23
This was always the true teaching of the church that the Muslims are heathens and infidels, only with the second vatican council and modernism which opened the doors for ecumenism is that this is questioned by heretics.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 01:25:42 PM
The essencial and basics are Muslims worship "Allah" and his prophet muhammed. Catholics worship the trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all equally. Moslems reject the trinity. Moslems do not worship the same God as us, they worship a false man made created God.
This was always the true teaching of the church that the Muslims are heathens and infidels, only with the second vatican council and modernism which opened the doors for ecumenism is that this is questioned by heretics.
Thank you.  That is where I'm getting confused - I never remember before VII being taught we all worship the same God and that we're all on the same page.
This came up on account of the allegedly "hard hitting" document "Declaration of Truths" submitted by those alleged bastions of orthodoxy in the Church, Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius Schneider, among others.  They included something to the effect that Muslims do not offer to God the same supernatural worship as do Christians, which was news to me that the Church ever taught they offered anything to God.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 01:44:50 PM


Council of Florence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Florence), Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagan), but also Jews (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew) and heretics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy) and schismatics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schism_(religion)), can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." The same council also ruled that those who die in original sin, but without mortal sin, will also find punishment in hell, but unequally: "But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 02:57:54 PM
I'm making this an anonymous thread because I would very much appreciate an answer to this and am afraid that if the men here who would be able to answer this saw who started the thread, they'd ignore it.

Would some knowledgeable men here be so kind as to lay out here what the Church always taught regarding the moslems?  Please?

Has the Church always taught that we worship the same God?  If so, how do they account for their female genital mutilation, incest, pedophilia, killing of non-moslems, just to name a few things?
The Church teaches that the Moslems do not worship the same God. I know several Muslims, and they also acknowledge this. They would be the first to declare this.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 04:37:20 PM
Ask how the Church managed the Jews and I would direct you to "The Plot Against the Church", by Maurice Pinay.  You might be very surprised how those outside the Church were addressed.  The Church must defend Herself!  
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 04:41:08 PM
Ask how the Church managed the Jews and I would direct you to "The Plot Against the Church", by Maurice Pinay.  You might be very surprised how those outside the Church were addressed.  The Church must defend Herself!  
Have the book and read it twice a long time ago.   Time to pull it out, dust it off, and read it again. 
Thank you for suggesting it.
OP
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 06:20:17 PM
https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/specific-teachings-on-islam/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/specific-teachings-on-islam/)
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: songbird on June 11, 2019, 09:40:02 PM
I too, blew the dust off my "The Plot Against the Church", thinking I had read the whole book, which I did not.  So, I am just so amazed as I read it now.  I guess over the years I have learnt more and now I can grasp things better.  I think I picked up my book at ISOC In Spirit of Chartres Committee, when there was a conference here in Phoenix.  John Sharpe Jr., of the Navy has vast knowledge on the issue of the Jews and their destruction to this day.  There are 2 books Neo-con.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 11:50:32 AM
https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/specific-teachings-on-islam/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/specific-teachings-on-islam/)
Thank you for the link!
OP
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 11:52:13 AM
I too, blew the dust off my "The Plot Against the Church", thinking I had read the whole book, which I did not.  So, I am just so amazed as I read it now.  I guess over the years I have learnt more and now I can grasp things better.  I think I picked up my book at ISOC In Spirit of Chartres Committee, when there was a conference here in Phoenix.  John Sharpe Jr., of the Navy has vast knowledge on the issue of the Jews and their destruction to this day.  There are 2 books Neo-con.
I inherited my book from a man who died of lung cancer.  He wanted to be sure his children didn't throw his books out and went to great expense to mail them to me since he lived thousands of miles away from me.  
OP
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: songbird on June 12, 2019, 05:20:59 PM
I always wanted my own library in the home.  When I worked part time I would buy a book with each pay day from our churchs' religious store.  Then something wonderful happened.  I like going to estate sales.  I was debating about going on a Saturday.  I went and on Saturdays the prices are half off.  I went to a home, about 3 miles from our church and a room was filled with all Catholic books!  I told the owners I would buy all 120 books, since they were 50 cents a pieced!  I asked for the prior owner who died so that I could thank them in prayers and Mass.

When I came home, it was like Christmas!  I put the books in somwhat of an order.. The windows of our house facing West to the Hot Phoenix sun were of no use, but to close them to the rest of the house and leave eyebrow windows for statues.  I made book shelves.  It is so nice to be able to just pick out a book to my desire.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2019, 11:52:50 AM
I always wanted my own library in the home.  When I worked part time I would buy a book with each pay day from our churchs' religious store.  Then something wonderful happened.  I like going to estate sales.  I was debating about going on a Saturday.  I went and on Saturdays the prices are half off.  I went to a home, about 3 miles from our church and a room was filled with all Catholic books!  I told the owners I would buy all 120 books, since they were 50 cents a pieced!  I asked for the prior owner who died so that I could thank them in prayers and Mass.

When I came home, it was like Christmas!  I put the books in somwhat of an order.. The windows of our house facing West to the Hot Phoenix sun were of no use, but to close them to the rest of the house and leave eyebrow windows for statues.  I made book shelves.  It is so nice to be able to just pick out a book to my desire.
Songbird, that's wonderful!!  You sound a lot like me.   I had always dreamed of having a home with enough rooms to turn one into a chapel and another into a library. I certainly have enough books and religious items to fill both!!  :)  However, I must relinquish those dreams now and prepare to go Home.
I own quite a sizeable amount of good Catholic books, and also have quite a collection that perhaps a Vatican II crisis historian would be interested in owning for research.  My prayer now is that Our Lord will send someone into my life that I can turn these items over to before I die so that I can be comforted with the knowledge that they are in the hands of someone who will appreciate and treasure them.  :pray:
OP
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2019, 12:00:33 PM
Muslims are a scourge and should be treated like the enemy. Even the "good" or "innocent" ones should be sent packing. They don't belong in the USA.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 14, 2019, 11:19:55 AM
Muslims are a scourge and should be treated like the enemy. Even the "good" or "innocent" ones should be sent packing. They don't belong in the USA.
I agree with you completely.  However, you would be surprised as to the number of brainwashed fools we have in the USA.
OP
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: songbird on June 14, 2019, 03:35:14 PM
I live in the Phoenix area.  Fr. Leblanc had a very large building made for books that were sent to him, to save from destruction.  This is Our Lady of the Sun, in El, mirage, AZ.  The building was made in honor of Fr. Edward O'Connor.

Prayers have brought you to this point.  Someone will surely desire your books and to take good care of them.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 15, 2019, 02:18:49 PM
About the books that need a home, by chance do you have a traditional church near you.  Some people give their religious belongings to a church and the parishioners buy them and the donations go to the church. 
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 16, 2019, 09:37:07 PM
And also, tell anyone that believes that Muslims and Catholics worship the same God that it's the mortal sin of blasphemy. To claim that Allah is God is to deny the Holy Trinity.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2019, 02:04:28 AM
Then tell E. Michael Jones, because he thinks Muslims worship the same God as Catholics. Very sad situation. Such a gifted thinker yet so wrong on certain things.
The idea of Allah being triune in Islam is very, very, VERY heretical. There is nothing in Islamic doctrine or the Quran to insinuate that Allah became man or had a spirit. So E. Michael Jones should talk to a Muslim because they don't think that.

Source: asked an actual Muslim
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2019, 11:52:59 AM
About the books that need a home, by chance do you have a traditional church near you.  Some people give their religious belongings to a church and the parishioners buy them and the donations go to the church.
I don't want to do that.  They get enough from others.  I want to give my collection complete to someone who will value them and make use of them. 
Thank you for the suggestion just the same.
OP
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2019, 11:53:38 AM
Then tell E. Michael Jones, because he thinks Muslims worship the same God as Catholics. Very sad situation. Such a gifted thinker yet so wrong on certain things.
There's something very odd about him.
OP
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: 800 Cruiser on June 17, 2019, 03:51:40 PM
In my childhood, I was told by a fellow student that Muslims worship the same god as Christians. 
As an adult, I disagree. 

As for that collection of books...I am always interested in acquiring more books to add to our shelves. We love to read here. Feel free to contact me and let us see if something can be arranged. 

Back to the Muslims. Being still relatively new to being Catholic, am I supposed to despise/hate/(fill in the blank) them?
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Nadir on June 17, 2019, 05:41:08 PM
Back to the Muslims. Being still relatively new to being Catholic, am I supposed to despise/hate/(fill in the blank) them?
On the contrary you should love them, not the soppy love, but a manly love which seeks their salvation, through conversion to Jesus Christ. For most of us this means prayer for them.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2019, 06:12:11 PM
Listen to this talk by Fr. Gregory Hesse ...
He comments on a statement in a Vatican II document which
says, "The Muslims together with us adore one merciful God".
.
https://youtu.be/Bb92EfzPlYA?t=117 (https://youtu.be/Bb92EfzPlYA?t=117)
.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2019, 11:44:39 AM
Well, Hesse gives himself away to Satan.  Good for him to say this, so we can all, pray for him and leave him speaking to himself.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2019, 01:00:01 PM
Well, Hesse gives himself away to Satan.  Good for him to say this, so we can all, pray for him and leave him speaking to himself.
What are you talking about "Hesse gives himself away to Satan"?
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2019, 01:05:26 PM
Quite simply Allah is the word for God in arabic and is connected to the Aramaic.
Objectively Muslims do not believe in the same God as Christians, our God is triune. They believe falsehood.
It is one thing to say that men in general believe in God (conceptually, ie: a transcendent eternal being) quite another thing to say our concept of God in his  actuality is the same, because it isn't.
Title: Re: Traditional Church Teaching on Moslems
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2019, 05:09:12 PM
Excuse me, I misunderstood, about what Hesse said.