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Author Topic: The cathinfo position on women in college  (Read 1973 times)

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The cathinfo position on women in college
« on: May 19, 2013, 04:17:41 AM »
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  • Has Matthew ever weighed in with his opinion on this?



    Offline parentsfortruth

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #1 on: May 19, 2013, 08:49:44 AM »
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  • I'll give you mine.

    If you're going to learn a skill, like in a trade school or community college, for say, becoming a nurse... for some feminine line of work, there's nothing wrong with it.

    However, a four year degree is a bad idea, and would be very ill advised these days. "A women's university is her mother's kitchen," as +Williamson says. I agree.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #2 on: May 19, 2013, 02:42:20 PM »
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  • College in most cases is a waste of money and will get you into deep debt.  

    Offline Zeitun

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #3 on: May 19, 2013, 02:48:58 PM »
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  • I went into debt $40,000 for a degree in a "male industry" and now I'm a stay at home mom who homeschools.  

    No, it's wasn't worth it and I would NOT recommend women to take on a debt that they can never repay and possible force onto their parents or husband.  It's immoral.

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #4 on: May 19, 2013, 03:18:37 PM »
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  • College universities are cesspools of sin. It's generally best to avoid them.


    Offline Matthew

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #5 on: May 19, 2013, 03:52:20 PM »
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  • First, I'm going to go ahead and generalize here, since no conversation is possible if you worry about the "exceptions" or people who will get offended because they don't fit the common pattern.

    Modern, secular colleges/"universities" (which are quite different from the classic notion of the university, but I digress) are very dangerous places, for men or women.

    But, all things being equal, men are less prone to be damaged by them.

    1. Because of nature. Men are less inclined to "please" and conform to what is around them -- to the consensus of their peers. Women are inclined to do this. They are hard-wired by nature to please men. They are consensus-builders by nature. (As an aside, modern public schools and colleges are *completely* geared this direction. This is why women do so well in public school and college.)

    2. Because of vocation. The role of men is to wade out into the big bad world, be strong,  and do whatever needs to be done to support a family. That includes getting a degree, working in the secular world, etc. On this heading, it should be pointed out that the man often NEEDS a degree (or professional training of some sort), because he will be supporting the family. This is not true for the women. They will be staying home, schooling and raising the children.

    3. Because of proper gender roles in marriage. A man with a degree is a stronger leader, a more confident husband. A woman with a degree will at least be tempted to be resentful that her bachelors degree means she has to stay home and change diapers, cook, etc. while his bachelors degree (or associates degree, or LACK OF degree) means he gets to "go out in the world" and do "real work" that every worldly person gives more respect to.

    Basically my position is that of Bishop Williamson in his famous letter on "Women in University".

    I haven't had to worry about it yet -- my oldest girl is only 5 1/2 -- but the stars would all have to align for me to even consider "giving my blessing" to their attending college.

    * Extreme talent shown in some area
    * Which is in line with female nature (teaching, nursing, accounting, culinary, etc.)
    * Some time (6-12 months after 18) already spent thinking about -- and actively looking into -- a possible religious vocation. Time spent thinking about life in general.
    * She already has the basic homemaking skills down, from her pre-teen and teen years
    * Awesome grades, leading to a slew of scholarships/free money (we don't want a young lady saddled with debt to hinder her chances at marriage)
    * The understanding that career is NOT what a woman's life is about
    * Therefore she should be looking for that husband, and ready to give up whatever "career" she was working on, when he shows up.
    * And she would have to be a day-student, not live in a dorm with other pagans.
    * Lastly, I'd have to look at her personality. Is she a sheepish follower, or a strong leader type?

    Those are the only conditions I *might* be OK with. Like I said, I like to consider everything carefully, but at first glance I'm always *very* leery of the world and its influence. It's very, very powerful and most people underestimate how much it can destroy a man or woman, especially when they are young and vulnerable.

    But maybe it would be better for these women to study these things on their own? If the goal is to be able to better take care of children (say, by having nursing skills), why not study a bunch on their own? Up to and including taking online courses. Why not desire a more general, practical knowledge instead of a knowledge geared at getting a job as a nurse?

    I've been studying electronics off and on since I was 12 years old. Each time I get into it (every 3-5 years, like clockwork), I learn a bit more. Pretty soon I'll have most of the knowledge of an electrical engineer, having never set foot in a school for that purpose.

    Sure, no one might ever hire me as an electrical engineer, but if I can design and build a workable electronic device from scratch using a few parts I scavenged from an old TV set, I've still met my goal, right?

    That kind of thing.
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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #6 on: May 19, 2013, 04:20:19 PM »
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  • I went to college and have a degree. My experience, before I converted, was very sinful. Even the good people in college were very sinful. From my experience I would say that it is dangerous to go to college, but if you must, then you cannot live in the dormitories because they are flooded with all kinds of sins, and also, you should not make friends with the other students, because there is almost no chance that they will be good people. Better safe than sorry. There are some cases where women must go to college, and I guess it is okay if they are very careful, but women should only go to college if they need too, unlike today where almost everyone goes  college.

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #7 on: May 19, 2013, 06:26:45 PM »
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  • What would I prefer?

    1) My daughter her nursing her first-born after marrying an innocent love?
    2) My daughter doing schoolwork assigned by anti-Christians and attending drunken parties and living among godless people?

    This isn't rocket science for actual Catholics.


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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #8 on: May 20, 2013, 09:43:34 AM »
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  • I would be more interested in the Catholic position on women in College.

    If possible they should study to be a wife or a religious.  If a wife, marry a man that can support you staying at home and raising the children as it is meant to be, if religious, that all takes care of itself.

    Offline Frances

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #9 on: May 20, 2013, 05:35:09 PM »
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  • As a single woman living the world, I've supported myself since age 18. That includes going to University.  I hold two  Master's degrees without which I could not support myself in my state of life and area of aptitude.  I was not  a Catholic at 18, rather, a protestant on a spiritual search for the true Faith.  After only one semester, I moved to an off-campus apartment as an independent adult.  The moral atmosphere in the dormitory was horrendous.  This was in 1979!  The fact that I was financially on my own precluded involvement in immoral social activities.  Between a full-time job and full course load, there was no time for "partying." As Matthew mentioned in his conditions for a daughter in college, I do indeed possess several of these traits; high academic ability, aptitude in a feminine profession, and the ability to think and act according to reason.  While I am not the leader type, I'm not a follower, either.  More often than not, I find myself "going it alone."  The result has been an unusual and interesting life, one of the highlights being conversion at age 45.  Perhaps it is not the sort of life most Traditional parents want for their daughters, but it led me to the Catholic Faith and has proven compatible with its practice.  
    There is a danger for Trad. parents to be idealistic to the point where they are no longer in reality.  I was dealt a difficult reality as a young woman,. With God's help and lots of hard work, I'm basically happy and content.  Whether a young woman goes to University does not determine her eternal destiny.  Keeping one's Faith and persevering to the end is the key to Heaven.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #10 on: May 20, 2013, 05:43:43 PM »
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  • Frances,

    Given that most young women desire marriage and that you did not have the limitation of finding a Trad spouse since you yourself were not at the time, what would you say the largest factors were which kept you from marrying?


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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #11 on: May 20, 2013, 10:18:14 PM »
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  • What "kept" me from marrying?  The assumption that I am (was) like "most young women" does not apply in my case.  While I certainly have nothing against marriage, I never felt "called" in that direction.  Although protestant, I envisioned myself as a nun of sorts, dedicating my life to serving God through teaching "difficult" children.  Marriage simply was never on my radar, so to speak.  My peers considered me a.bit "odd" because I wasn't all that interested in "getting a man."  Some suspected me of having unnatural desires, a notion I find most disgusting.  In turn, I thought most girls from Middle School on up through college to be obsessed with boys,  and silly-minded. For this reason, I had more male friends than female.  Yes, I did date a few men, but the relationships were mostly platonic.  I was attracted to men who had altruistic missions in life beyond finding a wife or getting a co-ed into bed. I've always envisioned myself as a helper to a man with a mission, rather than a wife and mother to a man's children.  But let me emphasize that being a wife and mother is a noble and Godly calling.  One of my few close female friends since college days is a mother of ten children, and now grandmother of 32, great-grandmother of seven.  (No, she was NOT a college student!  She is a farm wife, married at 16, whom I met while riding my bicycle out into the countryside.)
    Let me state, also, that finances were never a factor in my not marrying.  I took no loans, accelerated my graduation dates by six mos.to a year, worked full-time or more, lived very simply.  To this day, I live pretty much as in college except that the bulk of my time and energy goes to my students.  I could not possibly serve them properly if I were married with children of my own.  Mine has been life of interest and adventure.  I have regrets for having remained single.

    Offline Frances

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #12 on: May 20, 2013, 10:27:55 PM »
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  • Frances here!  I could  not get the Do NOT Post Anon. button to work, and the EDIT equally failed.  I have NO REGRETS FOR HAVING REMAINED SINGLE!
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #13 on: May 21, 2013, 12:28:45 AM »
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  • Perhaps with the crisis in the Church women with a spiritual calling will find themselves unable to enter religious life without danger to their Faith.  There may be more young women living out that calling similar to what Frances did.

    I have a family member who was in a convent and she left over scandal caused by other nuns keeping company with men inside the enclosure.  

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    The cathinfo position on women in college
    « Reply #14 on: May 21, 2013, 04:16:29 AM »
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  • It's fair enough to not send women to the colleges as they have been described. No one should willingly go or be sent into a moral cesspool. It is impossible to learn if you have a closed mind, but it is unsafe to have an open mind in such an environment.

    But I object to any notion that women and girls should be deprived of education, and would never do this to my daughters. They should learn and develop as much as they can in the time they have, since every one has a role as an educator, regardless of his or her place in the world.