Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on January 04, 2022, 11:53:25 AM
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Someone was posting about lukewarmness and mediocrity. He included these two points:
It is not a sin to not wear a suit and tie to mass
It is not a sin to wear jeans, t-shirts, flip flops, tank tops, sneakers, to dress bummy to mass.
But what if you don't wear a suit and tie, but avoid such bummy clothes as well? Ever heard of a button down dress shirt, whether short or long sleeved? Often worn with a tie? Together with khaki pants, this would be quite acceptable for Mass. Especially if that was your Sunday Best. If that's what you'd wear to meet an important person, to a wedding or funeral, then it should be acceptable for Mass. I personally believe that the suit and tie is going the way of the briefcase, phonebook, and land line phone. It was a cultural thing, but younger generations are completely rejecting it in all contexts. Younger generations are more laid back in their dress. Their formal attire is less formal than older generations. That is why the Catholic Church gives timeless principles when describing a proper dress code, rather than a shopping list. Let's face it, for most of history the typical Western suit jacket and tie didn't even exist. Why couldn't it return to the void from whence it came?
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I wear a dress shirt and dress pants to Mass, and I'm not the only one. My suit no longer fits me :facepalm:
I would prefer a suit, but I have other things to pay for right now.
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Only your best clothes should always be worn in God's presence, Sundays or weekdays does not matter. Exceptions are made of course for wearing one's work clothes when they are unable to get home and change first, but regardless of what anyone else wears, it is a sign of great respect to Almighty God to always dress in your "Sunday Best" whenever you are in His presence.
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But what if you don't wear a suit and tie, but avoid such bummy clothes as well? Ever heard of a button down dress shirt, whether short or long sleeved? Often worn with a tie? Together with khaki pants, this would be quite acceptable for Mass. Especially if that was your Sunday Best. If that's what you'd wear to meet an important person, to a wedding or funeral, then it should be acceptable for Mass. I personally believe that the suit and tie is going the way of the briefcase, phonebook, and land line phone. It was a cultural thing, but younger generations are completely rejecting it in all contexts. Younger generations are more laid back in their dress. Their formal attire is less formal than older generations. That is why the Catholic Church gives timeless principles when describing a proper dress code, rather than a shopping list. Let's face it, for most of history the typical Western suit jacket and tie didn't even exist. Why couldn't it return to the void from whence it came?
I disagree, at least to a point. I think that we should resist the downward pull of the surrounding culture and dress better for Mass than we would for anything else. I'm not claiming that nice clothes make someone more Holy, but they do serve as a reminder that we are at the most important thing that God has given us, the place where he truly gives us Himself. We're not stopping off at Wal-Mart or just putting in our time so we can go do something fun.
Second-hand stores are pretty common in the U.S., I have personally purchased nice suit coats for $5 and ties for $1 or $2. In fact, while I have bought brand new suits my favorite, and the highest quality suit coat that I own, is 2nd hand.
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To me this is similar to the "broken Windows" policing of NYPD in the 80s.
“Social psychologists and police officers tend to agree that if a window in a building is broken and is left unrepaired, all the rest of the windows will soon be broken. This is as true in nice neighborhoods as in rundown ones.”
If someone comes to Mass wearing jeans and nobody corrects that person, other people may by symbiosis, start wearing jeans. Next thing you know, people are wearing "trendy" ripped up jeans or jeans with grease marks and "vintage" clothing, or "distressed-look" clothing. This is what happens at NO parishes and some priests every once in a while remind people about dressing up.
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I think that we should resist the downward pull of the surrounding culture and dress better for Mass than we would for anything else. I'm not claiming that nice clothes make someone more Holy, but they do serve as a reminder that we are at the most important thing that God has given us, the place where he truly gives us Himself. We're not stopping off at Wal-Mart or just putting in our time so we can go do something fun.
Second-hand stores are pretty common in the U.S., I have personally purchased nice suit coats for $5 and ties for $1 or $2. In fact, while I have bought brand new suits my favorite, and the highest quality suit coat that I own, is 2nd hand.
^This!
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Why not dress like Jesus and Mary? Let's all wear robes and sandals.
When did the Magisterium define 1950's haberdashery as de fide?
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Why not dress like Jesus and Mary? Let's all wear robes and sandals.
If I lived in the Holy Land at the time of Christ I would.
When did the Magisterium define 1950's haberdashery as de fide?
With that statement you are just being an idiot and I think you know it.
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I wear a dress shirt and dress pants to Mass, and I'm not the only one. My suit no longer fits me :facepalm:
I would prefer a suit, but I have other things to pay for right now.
That's me exactly. I got an Uomo Pronto black blazer from Goodwill for $6, spent $30 to alter it, and I usually wear it with a dress shirt, tie, and Wrangler slacks, which if you take care of them, look almost like they could be from a suit. Men's Wearhouse is running a sale, but I don't know if they have my size. I have my doubts that something called "Modern Fit" would be for me.
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With that statement you are just being an idiot and I think you know it.
It's always nice coming to CathInfo.... the charity some exhibit to others here is boundless.
:facepalm:
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It's not just the younger generation. More and more workplaces are going casual, and when people work from home, they can wear whatever. If you have a video call, you can quickly put on a different shirt, while sitting in your undewear. :laugh1:
But if you see old picutres from earlier this century and before, people wore suit and tie just to go out anywhere, and even when they were at home. Men wouldn't even go to a grocery store without proper attire.
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My grandparents (when they were younger) and great-grandparents had very little spare change between them. But they always wore a suit and long dress to Mass each Sunday. Those times are no longer here. I can't imagine (fiscal) times being worse now than way back then, so it would seem it is a matter of choice. That, and society in general has eschewed formal wear.
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My grandparents (when they were younger) and great-grandparents had very little spare change between them. But they always wore a suit and long dress to Mass each Sunday. Those times are no longer here. I can't imagine (fiscal) times being worse now than way back then, so it would seem it is a matter of choice. That, and society in general has eschewed formal wear.
Darn anon posting... that was me above.
Also, I wanted to add that I have about five pairs of suits, all pushing 20 years old. None of them fit me anymore because, well.... should probably spend less time online and more time in meatspace. Regardless, I do attempt to wear dress pants, dress shirt/tie and, depending upon the season, either a sport jacket, knitted sweater (or both), when attending Mass on Sundays. If I attend during the week, it's usually what I'm wearing for work, which is business casual.
I really should try to wear suits more often, but I never really liked wearing them. That being said, I can attest to the fact that people treat you quite differently when wearing suit as opposed to just about anything else.
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I really should try to wear suits more often, but I never really liked wearing them. That being said, I can attest to the fact that people treat you quite differently when wearing suit as opposed to just about anything else.
Yes, after Sunday Mass, if I'm stopping into a gas station still wearing my suit, ... it definitely gets noticed. You know, for all the girls that want to get noticed, nothing will do that than wearing a very nice formal dress into store. They'll get men holding doors for them and being extra polite. No, they don't have to stick their behinds out of short jeans to get noticed.
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(https://gettingovergrowingolderdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/113034633_10214920126276889_6927038015638608896_n.jpg)
Who was saying what you wear doesn't matter?
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Also, look up "Enclothed Cognition". Studies have been done which demonstrate the effect which clothing has upon a person's mental process and the way he thinks, feels, and functions, in areas like attention, confidence, or abstract thinking. They can affect a person's performance, ability to think abstractly, & ability to negotiate.
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If I lived in the Holy Land at the time of Christ I would.
With that statement you are just being an idiot and I think you know it.
Well, you live in 2022 and, guess what? Only weirdos dress like it's 1950.
even in 2022 it's not difficult to dress neatly and modestly without dressing like a prig or dandy.
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It's not just the younger generation. More and more workplaces are going casual, and when people work from home, they can wear whatever. If you have a video call, you can quickly put on a different shirt, while sitting in your undewear. :laugh1:
But if you see old picutres from earlier this century and before, people wore suit and tie just to go out anywhere, and even when they were at home. Men wouldn't even go to a grocery store without proper attire.
As the OP points out, what is proper attire tends to change with the times, being purely cultural. We no longer wear robes to Mass, as they did in the early Church. When did a suit and tie become the eternal, automatic sunday best for all peoples and cultures? The America-centeredness from some members in this thread is nauseating.
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As the OP points out, what is proper attire tends to change with the times, being purely cultural. We no longer wear robes to Mass, as they did in the early Church. When did a suit and tie become the eternal, automatic sunday best for all peoples and cultures? The America-centeredness from some members in this thread is nauseating.
^^^ This!
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I am completely in agreement that we should wear our very best clothing to Mass, to meet Christ our King. But there's nothing intrinsic about 1950's business attire (suit and tie) that makes it always and everywhere the best, much less the only, choice. Younger generations look on the old suit and tie as being excessively fake. They would only wear it ironically.
Don't you think the venerable suit and tie was a step down for some at the time? What, no hat? Not saying it should be worn inside the church building, but part of your wardrobe to the church. Besides, when you wear a hat you have something you can actively doff to show respect for the Blessed Sacrament, as well as any ladies you might pass. And what kind of immature boy doesn't have a gold watch on a chain, and a monocle? And what gentleman doesn't wear a white pair of gloves when motoring about? And make sure to grease your hair and wax your mustache when dressing up for church, at least on Sunday.
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Well, you live in 2022 and, guess what? Only weirdos dress like it's 1950.
even in 2022 it's not difficult to dress neatly and modestly without dressing like a prig or dandy.
Do you think that the culture of 2022 is more influenced by Christian standards than the culture of 1950?
Also, I am an adult, not a snot-nosed teenager who is struck dumb with terror at the thought of being different than his peers. And while we are on that subject I actually respect my forebears, while still acknowledging their faults. Your display of contempt for your elders is no virtue and is not a good sign for your future.
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Only your best clothes should always be worn in God's presence, Sundays or weekdays does not matter. Exceptions are made of course for wearing one's work clothes when they are unable to get home and change first, but regardless of what anyone else wears, it is a sign of great respect to Almighty God to always dress in your "Sunday Best" whenever you are in His presence.
Some guys don't do suits period. Might as well be Victorian gentleman's attire for all they are concerned. Does God expect any of us to wear a top hat, double breasted trench coat, waxed mustache, gloves, monocle, gold watch, or cane with a brass ball on the top? I'll lend you a clue though. This was Sunday Best for that time period. No longer. Apparently some things are not eternal.
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As the OP points out, what is proper attire tends to change with the times, being purely cultural. We no longer wear robes to Mass, as they did in the early Church. When did a suit and tie become the eternal, automatic sunday best for all peoples and cultures? The America-centeredness from some members in this thread is nauseating.
Of course it's somewhat culturally- and historically- relative. But in our culture a suit and tie are not totally out of place and send a real message. When I do stop at gas stations and someobody asks me what the occasion is for my dressing up, I tell them it's for Mass.
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Do you think that the culture of 2022 is more influenced by Christian standards than the culture of 1950?
Also, I am an adult, not a snot-nosed teenager who is struck dumb with terror at the thought of being different than his peers. And while we are on that subject I actually respect my forebears, while still acknowledging their faults. Your display of contempt for your elders is no virtue and is not a good sign for your future.
1950 was more amenable to all things good and Catholic. That having been said, I wouldn't imitate everything 1950's as being automatically good. The 50's brought us baby formula, TV dinners, soap operas, canned food, and many other non-wholesome things which 2022, with all its faults and downsides, is slowly helping us get rid of. Modern millennials and zoomers are much more amenable to breast feeding and homeschooling. People make fun of younger generations when they are health conscious and shop farmers markets and want things organic. Why?
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99% of those 1950 Catholics went Novus Ordo. No reason to imitate them.
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Do you think that the culture of 2022 is more influenced by Christian standards than the culture of 1950?
Also, I am an adult, not a snot-nosed teenager who is struck dumb with terror at the thought of being different than his peers. And while we are on that subject I actually respect my forebears, while still acknowledging their faults. Your display of contempt for your elders is no virtue and is not a good sign for your future.
Do you think that the culture of 1950 is more influenced by Christian standards than the culture of the 12th century A.D.?
If 1950's sartorial standards were a matter from the perennial and unchangeable Magisterium, then two millennia of Christians have "disrespected" their forbears.
Did good Catholics of the 1950's rave about how Catholics should dress like the 1870's?
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The America-centeredness from some members in this thread is nauseating.
Yes, it was only "America" who wore suits/ties in the past. :facepalm:
1930's Berlin
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/29/article-2240351-16455FA7000005DC-613_964x451.jpg)
1940's Dublin
(https://jacolette.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/wedding500partystrange.jpg)
1950's Poland
(https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/poland-circa-fifties-vintage-photo-600w-217763758.jpg)
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(https://gettingovergrowingolderdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/113034633_10214920126276889_6927038015638608896_n.jpg)
Who was saying what you wear doesn't matter?
Seems many things went wrong in the 50s and 60s and fashion was no exception. Miniskirts were popularized in the 60s. Men's polo shirts are a 50s/60s thing from what I've read.
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That's me exactly. I got an Uomo Pronto black blazer from Goodwill for $6, spent $30 to alter it, and I usually wear it with a dress shirt, tie, and Wrangler slacks, which if you take care of them, look almost like they could be from a suit. Men's Wearhouse is running a sale, but I don't know if they have my size. I have my doubts that something called "Modern Fit" would be for me.
I'm probably going to opt for a sweater vest with a nice button-down shirt and pleats or nice slacks. It seems to be a nice alternative to the suit and tie look, and I'm finding myself drifting more and more toward classic "dad attire" anyway (I started tucking in all of my shirts kind of out of nowhere recently) :laugh1:
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As the OP points out, what is proper attire tends to change with the times, being purely cultural. We no longer wear robes to Mass, as they did in the early Church. When did a suit and tie become the eternal, automatic sunday best for all peoples and cultures? The America-centeredness from some members in this thread is nauseating.
Where did the idea that the OP was addressing every Catholic in every nation of the world come in?
Most of the members of CI live in the US or in western Europe, so the natural assumption on a topic like this, unless stated otherwise, is what would pertain to them. If CI membership was made up of mostly Zimbabweans we would naturally assume that we were talking about that culture, so I honestly don't understand your complaint.
BTW I have nothing against other nations and am glad to get a chance to know people from other cultures.
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Do you think that the culture of 2022 is more influenced by Christian standards than the culture of 1950?
Also, I am an adult, not a snot-nosed teenager who is struck dumb with terror at the thought of being different than his peers. And while we are on that subject I actually respect my forebears, while still acknowledging their faults. Your display of contempt for your elders is no virtue and is not a good sign for your future.
I was wishing I could down-thumb the post to which this was a response. Thank you for this response.
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I am completely in agreement that we should wear our very best clothing to Mass, to meet Christ our King. But there's nothing intrinsic about 1950's business attire (suit and tie) that makes it always and everywhere the best, much less the only, choice. Younger generations look on the old suit and tie as being excessively fake. They would only wear it ironically.
Don't you think the venerable suit and tie was a step down for some at the time? What, no hat? Not saying it should be worn inside the church building, but part of your wardrobe to the church. Besides, when you wear a hat you have something you can actively doff to show respect for the Blessed Sacrament, as well as any ladies you might pass. And what kind of immature boy doesn't have a gold watch on a chain, and a monocle? And what gentleman doesn't wear a white pair of gloves when motoring about? And make sure to grease your hair and wax your mustache when dressing up for church, at least on Sunday.
Some of the posts here are completely ridiculous. It's not like suits & ties are antiquated & out of style as a monocle. Even in the utter decay of our society which corresponded with the degeneration in dress which led to those hideous ripped jeans depicted in an earlier post, professional men still wear suits, or jacket & tie. And seriously, if a man here were to testify to Congress, or appear in court, or meet some high dignitary, would you wear casual attire? I bet not, and yet here you are acting like it's too much to wear such dignified, proper attire to appear before & receive the Creator of the Universe & your Redeemer.
The day I let the poor misguided "younger generations" dictate how I dress for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, heaven help me. :(
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And seriously, if a man here were to testify to Congress, or appear in court, or meet some high dignitary, would you wear casual attire? I bet not, and yet here you are acting like it's too much to wear such dignified, proper attire to appear before & receive the Creator of the Universe & your Redeemer.
The day I let the poor misguided "younger generations" dictate how I dress for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, heaven help me. :(
(https://i.imgur.com/XeaTmsJ.png)
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The America-centeredness from some members in this thread is nauseating.
Wow, you must have a very weak stomach. Are you often offended easily?
By the way, do you mean USA-centered? America-centeredness means a different thing to someone in Argentina for example, as they are also American (South American to be more precise).
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It's always nice coming to CathInfo.... the charity some exhibit to others here is boundless.
Always glad when I can brighten your day, Bonny!
:clown:
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inb4 someone chimes in with
"you know (((who))) subverted European fashion and turned our culture slutty?"
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I don't even know how to tie a tie so I am left with a polo and khakis. I would have to check my closet to see what else I have.
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I don't even know how to tie a tie so I am left with a polo and khakis. I would have to check my closet to see what else I have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAg7z6u4NE8&ab_channel=tiehole
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The very first obvious response to be made is why is this topic in the anonymous forum? In addition to not having good taste in vesture and grooming (era / venue appropriate of course) apparently some are incapable of reading or understanding the guidelines for this forum. Perhaps that is why they wish to remain anonymous though :jester:.
I was born in 1951 and have observed evolving style trends. I recall when everyone at Mass wore their ‘Sunday Best’, gentlemen in suits with ties (and often a wool dress hat, churches would sometimes have clips on the pew back to hang the hat during Mass), women in nice dresses and shoes, and usually a hat rather than a veil. Visiting elderly relatives, even into my college years in the early 1970’s, I noted that though they were retired and perhaps not even going out, they would upon arising dress for the day and be well groomed … the gentleman in slacks, a collared shirt, and dress shoes, perhaps a sweater or even a coat and tie … the women would comb their hair, put on a nice dress and shoes, perhaps some Jєωelry or makeup if that was their custom. I found this to be true even for people who worked on farms or at factories and couldn’t always dress this way in their working and family raising days. They would of course dress appropriately for an activity such as working in the garden or shoveling snow. I was an animal science major at university. Professors always wore suites, or at least slacks, dress shoes, collared shirts, and always a tie. When we had live animal labs they would put on coveralls and overshoe boots ~ they didn’t dress down (how we students dressed was another story).
There have been some ridiculous references to “top hat, double breasted trench coat, waxed mustache, gloves, monocle, gold watch, or cane with a brass ball”. Only the minority “upper crust” dressed like this, and it’s no argument for a slovenly appearance by everyone else. The working class still generally had their “best dress standard” that they followed. My work has been with dairy and beef cattle, which was often solitary and usually messy. For part of my career I was in biz to farm sales where I interacted with people as well as the cows. It always seemed appropriate to be well groomed and have good hygiene (however one defines those) and to start out the day with clean and nice clothing appropriate to the day’s work tasks. Outside of work I applied (and still do) the same standard. I dress differently for church, a funeral,or wedding than for running errands or going to the library (the distinction being I am sometimes dressed up for errands or the library). I would dress differently for the bowling alley than for going to the weight room at the gym (I don’t bowl but it looks like fun).
Currently I work various part time / on call positions in the gig economy:
I teach First Aid and CPR for the Red Cross. I notice that many instructors wear jeans, casual / athletic shoes, and maybe even just a t-shirt. I always wear khaki or grey slacks, dress shoes or boots, and a Red Cross polo. Student evaluations of my classes have commented on the professional appearance of the instructor.
I am an assistant at a funeral home. Working at a service gives one a vantage point of seeing just how casual and sloven society has become (though I am noticing that some among the younger generation may be turning things around as compared to their elders). While on a First Call we dress just as we would for a service (with the rare exception perhaps of an outdoor accident scene where everything is going to be messy), even if it is a middle of the night call at a nursing home or hospital with no family present. Staff at these facilities often mention that we dress nicer than people from the other funeral homes. As we never know when we’ll get called, when I’m out and about I’ll typically be in dress shoes and slacks and a white shirt. The suite coat or blazer and a tie will be in the car if I’m not already wearing them. My observation is that when dressed up one is taken more seriously by shop and office staff, and dressing up when going out is my new norm, even when I’m not on call for the mortuary.
For a final example, not long ago after working a funeral (I was in black dress shoes, a black wool suit, white shirt, black and silver tie) I stopped by a supermarket on my way home. The clerk (’20 something’) said (paraphrasing) “You look really nice; Where did you get your suite? I need to get one”.
While standards, styles, and attitudes do shift, in the U.S. in the second decade of the 21st century the classic business suit is still considered the ‘gold standard’ for looking one’s best, and people do notice when one makes the effort to dress nicely.
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Excellent post! Thank you.
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I am an assistant at a funeral home. Working at a service gives one a vantage point of seeing just how casual and sloven society has become (though I am noticing that some among the younger generation may be turning things around as compared to their elders). While on a First Call we dress just as we would for a service (with the rare exception perhaps of an outdoor accident scene where everything is going to be messy), even if it is a middle of the night call at a nursing home or hospital with no family present. Staff at these facilities often mention that we dress nicer than people from the other funeral homes. As we never know when we’ll get called, when I’m out and about I’ll typically be in dress shoes and slacks and a white shirt. The suite coat or blazer and a tie will be in the car if I’m not already wearing them. My observation is that when dressed up one is taken more seriously by shop and office staff, and dressing up when going out is my new norm, even when I’m not on call for the mortuary.
When they came to get my father back in July, the funeral home men, two of them, came wearing suits and ties. I was inspired by this, because, in all honesty, I had never given any thought to how they would be dressed. In his day, my father was quite the sharp dresser.
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And what kind of immature boy doesn't have a gold watch on a chain, and a monocle? And what gentleman doesn't wear a white pair of gloves when motoring about? And make sure to grease your hair and wax your mustache when dressing up for church, at least on Sunday.
I only date men who wear monocles.:laugh2:
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Well, you live in 2022 and, guess what? Only weirdos dress like it's 1950.
even in 2022 it's not difficult to dress neatly and modestly without dressing like a prig or dandy.
I guess I’m a prig. If my choice was between the 1950’s dresses and the shredded jeans, I’d take the dresses, hands down!
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For those who don't mind the jeans and screen t-shirts as their "Sunday best". What is the excuse? Don't tell me that "God does not care about what you wear, only what is in your heart" because I don't think you really believe that yourself.
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For those who don't mind the jeans and screen t-shirts as their "Sunday best". What is the excuse? Don't tell me that "God does not care about what you wear, only what is in your heart" because I don't think you really believe that yourself.
Strawman. The whole point of this thread, I believe, was that Suit jacket and tie vs. ripped jeans is a false dilemma.
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This thread has inspired me to start wearing my monocle again. Thank you!
(https://i.imgur.com/yVkryxq.png)
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Strawman. The whole point of this thread, I believe, was that Suit jacket and tie vs. ripped jeans is a false dilemma.
Strawman? Okay, I'll correct it. I'm seriously curious because at NO churches I've seen jeans and screen t-shirts even worn by "eucharistic ministers".
For those who don't mind the jeans and screen t-shirts as their "Sunday best". Why is that okay? What is the excuse? Don't tell me that "God does not care about what you wear, only what is in your heart" because I don't think you really believe that yourself.
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I think that the point should be made that dressing as best as you can goes along with reverence. A stranger should be able to stand at the chapel door, look in and see that everyone is dressed like Catholics, not NOers.
Snip from a sermon given by Fr. Wathen on the lack of reverence in the conciliar church:
"...Obviously when you come into the chapel where God is present, whether He is there in the tabernacle or it is simply where the Mass is going to be, you adjust yourself to the difference of the place. You teach your children that the chapel is not like any other place, and where the Mass is, is not like any other place.
We dress differently for Mass, we know to genuflect and fold our hands, if the children are making too much noise, we take them out for a bit of instruction so that they will learn how they are to conduct themselves in God’s presence.
Remember, I am recalling these passages in the Scriptures so that you will be reminded the difference between how we see things, and how the Scripture see things, as opposed to how they do things in the conciliar church.
They are very confident that they may be casual, that they may be offhanded, and they are confident that what they do is what God likes, that He does not require that they be formal, that they be carefully dressed, that they be quiet, that they not converse in His presence. They are very confident that since the Council there is a whole new way of treating with God in His presence, and we quote the Scriptures to say no, the Scriptures would not read this way if after this many years the bishops and the priests can get together and vote for a new arrangement..."
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One should always keep in mind that the proper attire to wear to mass in any time, whether it is the year 300, 1700, 1950, or 2022 is whatever is worn to "testify to Congress, or appear in court, or meet some high dignitary". It is that simple. THAT is the goal to strive for. If one is too poor, they wear the best they have. When going to Mass, we are going to worship the King of kings.
I was the one that wrote the original quote mentioned in the OP. I just noticed now that someone started a thread with it. I must add that I further elaborated on those quotes as follows:
It is not a sin to not wear a suit and tie to mass (But a Catholic should strive to wear a suit and a tie)
It is not a sin to wear jeans, t-shirts, flip flops, tank tops, sneakers, to dress bummy to mass (But a Catholic should strive to wear a suit and a tie)
I personally can't stand wearing a suit and tie, but I recognize it as a fault I must ultimately conquer. I now always wear a sport coat and a button down collar long sleeve shirt with no tie. I am getting there. If anyone were to ask me why I do not wear a suit and tie, I would acknowledge to them that I should, it is true, I should, I would not get upset. I am getting there. It is all about striving to improve ourselves. Striving. Once we stop striving for perfection in everything, we are basically dead fish just floating along with the current.
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It is all about striving to improve ourselves. Striving. Once we stop striving for perfection in everything, we are basically dead fish just floating along with the current.
Nicely put. I used to wear jeans or dress pants and polo shirts and that was my best. Now I've been wearing dress pants, button down shirts and a tie. No coat or full suit, at least not yet.
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When I'm able to "upgrade" from dress shirt and slacks I will. Bigger priority to clothe my wife and child at the moment though. Wouldn't mind some advice on where to pick up suits or any other suggestions.
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Wouldn't mind some advice on where to pick up suits or any other suggestions.
2nd hand stores such as Goodwill, Savers, etc.
I've also bought off of e-bay, but only from sellers with excellent ratings and only high-end made in USA clothes. I've just never found the cheaper and/or foreign made stuff to be consistent on their sizing and it is not worth it to pay to return the items.
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If you want variety without spending a bunch of money, buy a few sportscoats, maybe one that has gray/blue threads, and then one that is more earth-tones. This way you can match several different colored slacks with each sportscoat and stick with solid colored ties/dress shirts. You'll get many (and I hate to use the word) "outfits" without having to buy suits. If you don't know your jacket size, for most people it is 6 numbers above your waist size.
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Only your best clothes should always be worn in God's presence, Sundays or weekdays does not matter. Exceptions are made of course for wearing one's work clothes when they are unable to get home and change first, but regardless of what anyone else wears, it is a sign of great respect to Almighty God to always dress in your "Sunday Best" whenever you are in His presence.
We had a sermon on this very thing not long ago. Men are to wear their Sunday best. The priest even offered to pay for a 2nd hand blazer and tie if someone did not have enough money to do so.
He also said: How can we be leaders when we behave as hypocrites? We tell women and children to dress this way and that, but we come to mass in jeans, untucked shirts, and sneakers. We must lead by example and then maybe our words will be heard.
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I recall when everyone at Mass wore their ‘Sunday Best’, gentlemen in suits with ties (and often a wool dress hat, churches would sometimes have clips on the pew back to hang the hat during Mass),
So that's what those are for!? We had those in the church where I grew up, but by then (late 70's) no one was wearing hats anymore, so I never saw anyone use them as a hat holder. I always thought that they were there to hold the missalettes open at a certain page. I guess that's why they never worked all that well for that purpose :laugh1:
Learn something new every day.
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We had a sermon on this very thing not long ago. Men are to wear their Sunday best. The priest even offered to pay for a 2nd hand blazer and tie if someone did not have enough money to do so.
He also said: How can we be leaders when we behave as hypocrites? We tell women and children to dress this way and that, but we come to mass in jeans, untucked shirts, and sneakers. We must lead by example and then maybe our words will be heard.
Excellent.
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Strawman. The whole point of this thread, I believe, was that Suit jacket and tie vs. ripped jeans is a false dilemma.
And yet the ripped jeans and t’s keep showing up here. Who cares what NO’s are wearing we're discussing Traditional Latin Mass attire suits vs. casual dressy.
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Who cares what NO’s are wearing we're discussing Traditional Latin Mass attire suits vs. casual dressy.
The discussion was, as the subject alludes, that suit and ties becoming obsolete, antiquated, etc. just like VCRs and landline phones. I think that brings up something about modern culture and its aversion to tradition and the push for the latest and greatest trend (in fashion, tech, language, etc) and consumerism with an emphasis on comfort and ease. NO's came into the discussion as an example of how casual attitudes and the idea that we must "keep up with the times" have lead to an indifference towards ripped jeans and t-shirts at church.
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I went to a couple of thrift stores this morning and found a suit for $10 and another one for $12.
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When I'm able to "upgrade" from dress shirt and slacks I will. Bigger priority to clothe my wife and child at the moment though. Wouldn't mind some advice on where to pick up suits or any other suggestions.
If you live near a very affluent area (or driving through one), look for mission thrift stores. Wealthy residents will donate their expensive clothes and other household items instead of reselling them. I have supplied my whole closet with attractive silks at 5$ to 10$s a piece. Also, I don't really recommend going to Goodwill. Usually, the area will have their own local thrift store which will have much better clothes. There are always many many high quality suits made out of fine materials (NOT synthetic) and even taking it to be altered at a tailor will be much cheaper than buying the suit new.
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Objectively, no man or woman looks nice in a t-shirt and no man will ever look polished wearing short sleeves.
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And yet the ripped jeans and t’s keep showing up here. Who cares what NO’s are wearing we're discussing Traditional Latin Mass attire suits vs. casual dressy.
they dress like NO at my sspx chapel..
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they dress like NO at my sspx chapel..
Oh no!
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So that's what those are for!? We had those in the church where I grew up, but by then (late 70's) no one was wearing hats anymore, so I never saw anyone use them as a hat holder. I always thought that they were there to hold the missalettes open at a certain page. I guess that's why they never worked all that well for that purpose :laugh1:
Learn something new every day.
I once found another use for them. Being the farthest in the pew from Mom and Dad, during the collection, I enticed my brother to put his thumb on the base of the clip. When he did so, I let the top half down. (I honestly did not realize how much this would hurt. I thought it’d be like a clothespin, not a mouse trap!) I found myself pulled by the ear out of the pew, and escorted by the shoulder out of the church. Justice was administered on the church lawn. By the time we went back inside, the priest was praying, Hail Holy Queen. I was truly sorry when I saw my brother’s bruised thumb. 😢
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Bonnet History
During the 19th century, women of Western Europe and North America always wore head coverings outdoors or in public. Women kept their hair covered due to modesty, tradition, religious beliefs, personal decoration, and protection from the elements. Bonnets were the predominant headgear for women for most of the century. In a time before sunblock or sun glasses, a bonnet's brim protected the face and neck from sunburn and protected eyes from the harsh glare of the sun.
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I once found another use for them. Being the farthest in the pew from Mom and Dad, during the collection, I enticed my brother to put his thumb on the base of the clip. When he did so, I let the top half down. (I honestly did not realize how much this would hurt. I thought it’d be like a clothespin, not a mouse trap!) I found myself pulled by the ear out of the pew, and escorted by the shoulder out of the church. Justice was administered on the church lawn. By the time we went back inside, the priest was praying, Hail Holy Queen. I was truly sorry when I saw my brother’s bruised thumb. 😢
I will neither confirm nor deny if the same thing may have occurred with me--except I may have been using my own thumb.
:cowboy:
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Bonnet History
During the 19th century, women of Western Europe and North America always wore head coverings outdoors or in public. Women kept their hair covered due to modesty, ...religious beliefs[]. Bonnets were the predominant headgear for women for most of the century.
I have a feeling that many of those women were puritanical heretical prots.
For example, the wearing of bonnets by women is still alive and well in certain circles today, including this heretical anabaptist:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Mother_and_child_McKee%27s_Half_Falls_Rest_Area.jpg)
Further, of my family photos from the late 19th century (all Catholic), none of the women were wearing bonnets.
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https://youtu.be/DUEODk9Tvs0
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Hats and bonnets.
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Plaid button-up shirt tucked into pants (not shorts) with a belt and boots is my preferred attire going out and about.
Sunday is definitely a suit + tie/ Sunday best.
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I claim no high cultural ground here, but I did have another interesting experience which reinforced my belief that some do appreciate the value of good grooming and dressing nicely (which needn't be expensively), including the younger generation.
Yesterday afternoon and evening I was working at the funeral home for a visitation and Rosary and responded to two First Calls. I was "dressed down" a bit ... grey slacks, dark blue blazer, the tie had a bit of color ... for a formal funeral I would be in a black suit with a black and silver tie ... a white dress shirt always.
Afterwards I stopped at Costco to put gas in the car. As I finished I heard a voice say "Do you mind if I give you a compliment?" It was the fuel station attendant, mid to late 20's probable. He said "You dress very nicely" or something to that affect. I thanked him.
Of course, one dresses in a manner suitable for the task at han, but in earlier days a "coat and tie" was the gentleman's norm for going out and running errands, not just for church, funerals, and weddings. I watched the "All Creatures Great and Small" series on PBS and observed that this standard was both practical and practiced.
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(https://i.imgur.com/kkQlEtV.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/9Avlhmo.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/FWZWSCY.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/fkQ1iZ9.jpg)
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When I was homeless a parishioner tried to convince a priest to bar me from attending mass, due to my appearance.
I'm no longer homeless, and I woud like to wear a suit to Mass, but I am still in no position financially to purchase a suit. I'm 6'2" and I'm not morbidly obese, so thrift stores are out.
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When I was homeless a parishioner tried to convince a priest to bar me from attending mass, due to my appearance.
I'm no longer homeless, and I woud like to wear a suit to Mass, but I am still in no position financially to purchase a suit. I'm 6'2" and I'm not morbidly obese, so thrift stores are out.
This woman will answer to God for her viciousness. Meanwhile I would not worry that you don’t wear a suit to worship God. He doesn’t mind at all.
To tell you the truth, My husband has never worn a suit in our 40 years of marriage, including to our wedding, or to our children’s weddings or to Sunday Mass. His preference is for a polo neck and so no tie (doesn’t possess one) and smart jacket and slacks. He has always been a snappy dresser and looks good in his Sunday best.
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I claim no high cultural ground here, but I did have another interesting experience which reinforced my belief that some do appreciate the value of good grooming and dressing nicely (which needn't be expensively), including the younger generation.
Yesterday afternoon and evening I was working at the funeral home for a visitation and Rosary and responded to two First Calls. I was "dressed down" a bit ... grey slacks, dark blue blazer, the tie had a bit of color ... for a formal funeral I would be in a black suit with a black and silver tie ... a white dress shirt always.
Afterwards I stopped at Costco to put gas in the car. As I finished I heard a voice say "Do you mind if I give you a compliment?" It was the fuel station attendant, mid to late 20's probable. He said "You dress very nicely" or something to that affect. I thanked him.
Of course, one dresses in a manner suitable for the task at han, but in earlier days a "coat and tie" was the gentleman's norm for going out and running errands, not just for church, funerals, and weddings. I watched the "All Creatures Great and Small" series on PBS and observed that this standard was both practical and practiced.
I had a man stop me in the grocery store and say the same because I was wearing a skirt and blouse. Just then a woman walked by in pajamas and her hair uncombed! My husband wears a suit, tie, and hat to Mass.
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Summer clothes belong at the beach, office clothes for office work, casual for construction, a birthday suit to shower. Obviously, someone's best outfit is a subjective thing, but they know darn well what their best consists of and many do not spare it for mass, but usually for other people.
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Well it shouldn't be. If you believe He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, why wouldn't you wear your best to enter His house?
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... I did have another interesting experience which reinforced my belief that some do appreciate the value of good grooming and dressing nicely (which needn't be expensively), including the younger generation.
... grey slacks, dark blue blazer, the tie had a bit of color ...
Afterwards I stopped at Costco to put gas in the car. As I finished I heard a voice say "Do you mind if I give you a compliment?" It was the fuel station attendant, mid to late 20's probable. He said "You dress very nicely" or something to that affect. the "All Creatures Great and Small" series on PBS and observed that this standard was both practical and practiced.
I had a man stop me in the grocery store and say the same because I was wearing a skirt and blouse.
I had something like this happen in the 1990s. I was wearing a casual long dress when I stopped to get ice cream on my way home. The girl dispensing the ice cream said she liked my dress, and wished her mom wore things like that.
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Surely, Our Lord doesn't care what a person wears. And while we're on the topic, why does the Catholic Church require priestly vestments and proper attire for altar servers? The Church is obviously wrong on this. After all, does all that formality really matter? Such rigidity! Like the pharisees, no doubt! In fact, who does the priest think he is, dressing like royalty? He should dress like a homeless person to exemplify true humility. He should only wear sandals and grow his hair long (for sure) because all God cares about is that he says Mass. God loves us, not our clothing.
And those lay people who suggest wearing the best clothes that you can afford are just trying to show off their wealth and social status. Posers! They don't care about Our Lord who is all about "the poor" and "the homeless," right? So wouldn't it be best to find clothing appropriate for a homeless person and wear that to Holy Mass. To do anything else is to be prideful, and we all know that pride is the queen of sins.
Maybe it is pride to even think about what you might wear. So I suggest going into your closet with your eyes closed and feeling around. Whatever your hand lands on first is what you should wear. Then you will really be humble and not vain. And the Lord will love you more because he hates vanity and the people who care about wearing "appropriate" attire to Mass. Those evil people. Sinners. Busy bodies.
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Surely, Our Lord doesn't care what a person wears. And while we're on the topic, why does the Catholic Church require priestly vestments and proper attire for altar servers? The Church is obviously wrong on this. After all, does all that formality really matter? Such rigidity! Like the pharisees, no doubt! In fact, who does the priest think he is, dressing like royalty? He should dress like a homeless person to exemplify true humility. He should only wear sandals and grow his hair long (for sure) because all God cares about is that he says Mass. God loves us, not our clothing.
And those lay people who suggest wearing the best clothes that you can afford are just trying to show off their wealth and social status. Posers! They don't care about Our Lord who is all about "the poor" and "the homeless," right? So wouldn't it be best to find clothing appropriate for a homeless person and wear that to Holy Mass. To do anything else is to be prideful, and we all know that pride is the queen of sins.
Maybe it is pride to even think about what you might wear. So I suggest going into your closet with your eyes closed and feeling around. Whatever your hand lands on first is what you should wear. Then you will really be humble and not vain. And the Lord will love you more because he hates vanity and the people who care about wearing "appropriate" attire to Mass. Those evil people. Sinners. Busy bodies.
I actually kind of agree with this, to an extent (not with what is said about those serving on the Altar)
Who cares what you wear regularly or to Mass when most of us are spiritually retarded and consumed with pride? Maybe the man wearing his best jeans and button-down to Mass is truly wearing what is his "Sunday best" and has a soul more pleasing to God than the man in a suit and tie next to him in the pew? Surely men and women of the early Church and Middle Ages wore what they had at home (which was not much)?
There is too much of an emphasis on outward things among trad Catholics rather than actually growing in humility and charity.
"And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?" Saint Matthew 6:28-30
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I actually kind of agree with this, to an extent (not with what is said about those serving on the Altar)
Who cares what you wear regularly or to Mass when most of us are spiritually retarded and consumed with pride? Maybe the man wearing his best jeans and button-down to Mass is truly wearing what is his "Sunday best" and has a soul more pleasing to God than the man in a suit and tie next to him in the pew? Surely men and women of the early Church and Middle Ages wore what they had at home (which was not much)?
There is too much of an emphasis on outward things among trad Catholics rather than actually growing in humility and charity.
"And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?" Saint Matthew 6:28-30
But MA
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Surely, Our Lord doesn't care what a person wears. And while we're on the topic, why does the Catholic Church require priestly vestments and proper attire for altar servers? The Church is obviously wrong on this. After all, does all that formality really matter? Such rigidity! Like the pharisees, no doubt! In fact, who does the priest think he is, dressing like royalty? He should dress like a homeless person to exemplify true humility. He should only wear sandals and grow his hair long (for sure) because all God cares about is that he says Mass. God loves us, not our clothing.
And those lay people who suggest wearing the best clothes that you can afford are just trying to show off their wealth and social status. Posers! They don't care about Our Lord who is all about "the poor" and "the homeless," right? So wouldn't it be best to find clothing appropriate for a homeless person and wear that to Holy Mass. To do anything else is to be prideful, and we all know that pride is the queen of sins.
Maybe it is pride to even think about what you might wear. So I suggest going into your closet with your eyes closed and feeling around. Whatever your hand lands on first is what you should wear. Then you will really be humble and not vain. And the Lord will love you more because he hates vanity and the people who care about wearing "appropriate" attire to Mass. Those evil people. Sinners. Busy bodies.
I actually kind of agree with this, to an extent (not with what is said about those serving on the Altar)
Who cares what you wear...
I was actually hoping the above post was satire.
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I was actually hoping the above post was satire.
That's how I took it as well.
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worn attire affects the wearer’s psychological processes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclothed_cognition)
Why It Matters What We Wear (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-gender-ourselves/201407/why-it-matters-what-we-wear)
DRESSING LIKE A MAN FOR MASS (https://catholicgentleman.com/2015/04/dressing-like-a-man-for-mass/)
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I actually kind of agree with this, to an extent (not with what is said about those serving on the Altar)
Who cares what you wear regularly or to Mass when most of us are spiritually retarded and consumed with pride? Maybe the man wearing his best jeans and button-down to Mass is truly wearing what is his "Sunday best" and has a soul more pleasing to God than the man in a suit and tie next to him in the pew? Surely men and women of the early Church and Middle Ages wore what they had at home (which was not much)?
There is too much of an emphasis on outward things among trad Catholics rather than actually growing in humility and charity.
"And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?" Saint Matthew 6:28-30
I wrote the ABSURD SATIRE you are agreeing with. It was meant as a joke, thinking no one in their right mind would agree with what I said. Do you really think that intentionally "dressing down" is the proper response to Our Lord's visitation on the Altar of Sacrifice?
The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is as close as we get to heaven on earth. For you to show up in anything but YOUR BEST ATTIRE (meaning the best clothing that you can afford) and with PERFECT REVERENCE for that event borders on sacrilege. Your thinking is upside-down and, by the way, in perfect sync with most Novus Ordo parishes.
Those busy bodies (like me) don't care about your personal style. We care about people offending the Lord and teaching others, through their example, that it is okay to offend the Lord by profaning the Mass. To profane something is to treat it as an everyday thing, not as a sacred thing. So to wear jeans and flip flops (or whatever makes you comfortable) is profanation and it is a distraction to those who recognize the sacredness of what is going on in that Church.
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DRESSING LIKE A MAN FOR MASS (https://catholicgentleman.com/2015/04/dressing-like-a-man-for-mass/)
Dressing like a Man for Mass
April 28, 2015
(https://catholicgentleman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/VaticanII-prevat3.jpg)
Many are beginning to recognize the severe Catholic “man-crisis” and the necessary imperative to aggressively “emangelize” Casual Catholic Men. While new ardor, methods and expressions are needed from the Pope to the parish priest, laymen need to step up to their personal responsibility and respond to Christ’s commandment to make disciples (Matt 28:19-20 (http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matt 28.19-20)).
But the average Catholic man who is beginning to take Christ seriously about His call for all men to bring Him disciples, might be at a loss: “How can I evangelize other Catholic men? I haven’t been taught.”
For those men (and all men), here is a simple but powerful way to immediately begin to make a difference: Dress like a man for Mass.
Why Men’s Clothing at Mass Matters
The Catholic “man-crisis” is widespread and is having a devastating effect on men, women, children and the Church. 1 in 3 men who were baptized Catholic have left the faith. Of those who remain, 50-60% are Casual Catholic Men, not knowing the faith and not practicing the faith, men who in essence have left the faith. Sadly, large numbers of young people are following their lukewarm fathers out of the Church.
One obvious marker of the loss of faith among Catholic men is revealed in how men approach the Mass. Only about 1/3 of Catholic men attend Mass weekly and many of those have not grasped the miraculous nature and absolute necessity of the Mass. Research gives insight as to the root of the problem: men don’t understand the Mass – 49% of Catholic men are bored in the Mass and 55% of Catholic men don’t believe they “get anything out of the Mass”.
Boredom has its roots in a lack of catechesis. Men’s attitude of being “bored” in the Mass reveals the catechetical failure of the Church. Clearly, men who are properly catechized could not be bored in the Mass, for they would understand that the Mass is the “source and summit” of the faith in which men have a direct encounter with the Eternal King Jesus Christ. A man can’t be bored in the Mass if he has been taught and understands the Mass.
Boredom also results from the desacralized way some priests and parishes participate in the Mass. The desacralized Mass has many insults to Christ, including the lack of reverence of some priests, syrupy pop music that no one would listen to unless forced, a focus on community rather than Christ and a parish culture of casual attire. A desacralized Mass appears common and casual, leading to Casual Catholic Men, men who are casual about the faith.
Men who are bored by the Mass, dress like they are bored. On any given weekend in many parishes, the majority of men show up for Mass dressed, at best, like it is “Casual Friday” at work or, at worse, like they are going to a tailgate party. Men don’t wear suits or ties, choosing instead to wear khakis and polo shirts, jeans and sports jerseys, flannel shirts and cargo pants or even worse.
Casual clothing at Mass contributes to a sense of commonness about the Mass. When the people at the Mass look like they are going to the multiplex to see a movie, there is a loss of awe. Helping restore a sense of awe in the Mass is essential for over 8 out of 10 men never or rarely participate in a parish activity other than the Mass. If men are not being reached in the Mass, they are not being reached. Wearing clothing that reflects the awe that a man should feel as he approaches the King of the Creation sends a signal to other men that Someone awesome is present.
Unmanly Excuses for Casual Clothing at Mass
Men have all kinds of excuses for why they wear casual clothing to the Mass. Each of these excuses exposes both a lack of reverence for Jesus Christ and an unmanly lack of virtue.
The Personal Convenience Excuse – Some men don’t dress reverently for Mass because they want the convenience of wearing casual clothing, perhaps because it is relaxing or to avoid going home to change before the next Sabbath activity. These excuse-makers might say something like “I don’t feel like dressing up for Mass” or “I just want to relax on Sunday.” This is simply an excuse for sloth, revealing an unmanly lack of discipline and willingness to sacrifice.
The “I never dress up” Excuse – Some men have a personal ethic of wearing casual clothing, perhaps out of a non-conformist rebellion against authority or orthodoxy. For most, this excuse doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, for many of these same men do in fact dress up in various outfits, conforming to their chosen “posse”. Examples include men who wear expensive jerseys for their chosen sports teams, wear expensive “leathers” to ride motorcycles, dress in tuxes for big social events, buy expensive fishing or hunting clothing, buy all kinds of expensive athletic wear or dress up themselves up with permanent (and expensive) tattoos. This excuse is often two-faced, an unmanly trait.
The “God doesn’t care” Excuse – Many men use the excuse that “God doesn’t care about clothes” to justify why they choose to wear casual clothing. This opinion is conjecture and incorrect, for God actually does care about clothing (see below). It is unmanly to blame God for one’s own laziness.
The Money Excuse – Some men use the excuse that they can’t, or others can’t, afford appropriate clothing. Most American men across economic classes have plenty of money to buy all kinds of expensive clothing and other things. For those who truly have limited financial resources, discount/thrift stores sell very inexpensive clothing. It is unmanly to falsely use a lack of money as an excuse for disrespectful attire.
The “Parish Culture” Excuse – Many parishes celebrate a deliberate culture of a casual dress for Mass. The rationale is that somehow dressing down encourages parishioners to be more comfortable and friendly, as if community building were the point of the Mass, rather than the worship and communion with Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is unmanly to be a cowardly conformist or to be ignorant about something as important as the Mass. Catholic men need to be countercultural, even in their own parishes.
Dressing like a Man for Mass
In contrast to unmanly excuses, here are some manly reasons why dressing like a man for Mass is important:
The Mass is infinitely more important than any worldly event – A man should wear his very best clothing for every Mass is of infinite value. While cultures around the world vary, a reasonable standard in the U.S. for men’s dress for Mass is a dark suit, collared shirt, a tie and dress shoes (for examples of how men dress for important occasions in the U.S., see presidential portraits, presidential medal awards, Heisman Trophy finalists, wedding attire or even what young men wear to prom, etc.). Every single Mass is infinitely more important than even the most important worldly event, for Jesus Christ Himself is present.
Justice demands that men give their best to Christ – Post-modern men need to become re-acquainted with virtue, especially the cardinal virtue of Justice. The word “virtue” comes from the Latin virtutem, meaning “moral strength, high character, manliness and excellence.” The root word of “virtue” is the Latin, vir, which literally means “man.” Men have always been called to virtue and to be virtuous is considered “manly.”
The cardinal virtue of Justice is giving God and one’s fellowman his proper due. Man, in his sinful nature, can never fully give God his due, for Man owes everything to God and has little to give Him except thanksgiving and praise. One concrete way to show thanksgiving to God is to meticulously dress to approach Christ in the Mass (e.g. mirror-shined shoes, a crisply pressed suit, a starched shirt and a carefully knotted tie, etc.). The least that a just man can do when attending Mass is to dress like he is meeting a King.
Christ explicitly demands respectful attire – In Christ’s parable of the Wedding Banquet (Matt 22:1-14 (http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matt 22.1-14)), Christ says this:
“But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment; and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.’ For many are called, but few are chosen.”
The broader principle of proper spiritual preparation to approach Christ does not negate Christ’s most basic teaching about respectful dress. Clothing is one aspect of a man’s inner preparation and is also a signal to other men about his reverence of his Lord and King. Paul also warns men to not approach the Eucharist in an unworthy manner to avoid bringing down wrath and judgment of God upon themselves (1 Cor 11:27 (http://biblia.com/bible/esv/1 Cor 11.27)).
Each man’s life hangs in the balance – The eternal lives of every man and woman and their children hang in the balance when they face Judgment at the time of death: each and every soul will end up in Heaven (with first perhaps some necessary time in Purgatory) or Hell. Each man will face Jesus Christ alone in the Final Judgment. Men on trial in the temporal world, pleading their case before a worldly judge, almost always wear respectful clothes. The respect that a man should give the eternal Judge is infinitely more than any worldly judge, for He will decide each man’s eternal destiny.
Every man desperately needs the help of our King – Given the array of forces that Satan is continually assembling against men, each man desperately needs the supernatural graces of our Lord and King Jesus Christ. A man approaching Christ in the Mass should dress like he is beholding to Christ.
Being in Mass is a man’s greatest honor – Jesus Christ the Eternal King, in His full Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity is really and truly present in the tabernacle. When a man enters the parish, he is coming into the presence of Almighty God, the Greatest Man. The fact that sinful and puny men can actually come into the presence of the Greatest Man is an honor above every honor. Consider: if the President of the United States invited you to the Oval Office, it would be a great honor and you would certainly wear your best. Meeting the president is nothing compared to the divine honor of being in the presence of our King Jesus Christ.
Each man owes God everything – Each man is born and kept alive exclusively by God’s Grace. The fact that a man’s lungs breathe and his heart beats and his body converts food into flesh and blood is a gift from God. Every person in a man’s life, be his wife/girlfriend, children, family and friends, are all living breathing miracles given to a man by God. Christ recognized man’s need to give God thanks by establishing the Eucharist (literally means “thanksgiving”). If a man truly understands his dependence on God and wishes to give God thanksgiving, each man should at least dress like he means it.
Each man should instill the awe of Christ in his family and others – A man’s greatest responsibility is to lead his family to Christ so that they may receive the life-changing, miraculous Body and Blood of Christ. Children observe and pattern their father’s behaviors and a man should do his best to communicate an awe of the Eucharist to his children. Men who take the trouble to dress well, and to help their children dress well for Mass, send a clear sign that awe and reverence is required when approaching the King. Each man also has an obligation to his brothers to help lead them to Christ; dressing in one’s Sunday best will make an impact on other men.
Dress for the King
Stopping the hemorrhaging of Catholic men from the Church will require a broad and sustained effort enlivened by the Holy Spirit. But each man, in every parish, can do his part this Sunday by dressing like a man who knows he is coming into the Presence of the King.
Dress like a man who is awed by the Mass. Other men will notice, including Christ the King.
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Matthew James Christoff is a Catholic convert. He is the founder of The New Emangelization Project (http://www.newemangelization.com/) which is committed to confront the Catholic “man-crisis” and to develop new ardor, methods and expressions for the re-evangelization of Catholic men. Matthew is also a co-founder of CatholicManNight (http://catholicmannight.com/), a parish-based men’s evangelization effort that has drawn thousands of Catholic men into Eucharistic Adoration, Confession, fellowship and lively discussion. Matthew lives in Minnesota with his beautiful bride (and childhood sweetheart); they have 4 adult children, 3 “in-law” children and two grandchildren.
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I actually kind of agree with this, to an extent (not with what is said about those serving on the Altar)
Who cares what you wear regularly or to Mass when most of us are spiritually retarded and consumed with pride? Maybe the man wearing his best jeans and button-down to Mass is truly wearing what is his "Sunday best" and has a soul more pleasing to God than the man in a suit and tie next to him in the pew? Surely men and women of the early Church and Middle Ages wore what they had at home (which was not much)?
There is too much of an emphasis on outward things among trad Catholics rather than actually growing in humility and charity.
"And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?" Saint Matthew 6:28-30
Then good for him. That is the point of it... doing your best.
I've been to Mass with hoboes who were not well dressed, but were devout, and found their piety most edifying.
But I have also seen people dressed poorly for Mass who drive $50,000+ vehicles and have no problem buying expensive clothes for fishing and hunting. Are they doing their best? They can't scrape together $20 and go to a thrift shop?
My grandfather, when he died, had a cheaply furnished 1 bedroom apartment, an old car, and $500 in the bank. Yet he would always dress up to enter a Church, for any reason. It's called respect.
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DRESS UP FOR MASS! (https://catholicgentleman.com/2013/07/gentlemen-dress-up-for-mass/)
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Surely, Our Lord doesn't care what a person wears. And while we're on the topic, why does the Catholic Church require priestly vestments and proper attire for altar servers? The Church is obviously wrong on this. After all, does all that formality really matter? Such rigidity! Like the pharisees, no doubt! In fact, who does the priest think he is, dressing like royalty? He should dress like a homeless person to exemplify true humility. He should only wear sandals and grow his hair long (for sure) because all God cares about is that he says Mass. God loves us, not our clothing.
And those lay people who suggest wearing the best clothes that you can afford are just trying to show off their wealth and social status. Posers! They don't care about Our Lord who is all about "the poor" and "the homeless," right? So wouldn't it be best to find clothing appropriate for a homeless person and wear that to Holy Mass. To do anything else is to be prideful, and we all know that pride is the queen of sins.
Maybe it is pride to even think about what you might wear. So I suggest going into your closet with your eyes closed and feeling around. Whatever your hand lands on first is what you should wear. Then you will really be humble and not vain. And the Lord will love you more because he hates vanity and the people who care about wearing "appropriate" attire to Mass. Those evil people. Sinners. Busy bodies.
You've got enough material to open a new protestant sect.
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Those busy bodies (like me) don't care about your personal style. We care about people offending the Lord and teaching others, through their example, that it is okay to offend the Lord by profaning the Mass. To profane something is to treat it as an everyday thing, not as a sacred thing. So to wear jeans and flip flops (or whatever makes you comfortable) is profanation and it is a distraction to those who recognize the sacredness of what is going on in that Church.
And I agree with this. I didn't encourage people to wear whatever, but what was best in their wardrobe: "Maybe the man wearing his best jeans and button-down to Mass is truly wearing what is his "Sunday best"
The idea that a suit and tie is somehow the dogmatically-declared attire for Mass is a lie and doesn't really do you any favors when you turn up your nose at others dressed less-well than you and presume that they lack respect for the Lord.
Respect for the Lord follows from the soul, not from what you wear over your sinful flesh. Again, you've only proven my point about trad-emphasis on the exterior trappings before having the soul in order. Whited sepulchres indeed.
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When I was homeless a parishioner tried to convince a priest to bar me from attending mass, due to my appearance.
I'm no longer homeless, and I woud like to wear a suit to Mass, but I am still in no position financially to purchase a suit. I'm 6'2" and I'm not morbidly obese, so thrift stores are out.
If I was personally aware of your situation, I would give you money for a new suit. Maybe your priest might know a parishioner who would buy a suit for you. It wouldn't hurt to ask.
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And I agree with this. I didn't encourage people to wear whatever, but what was best in their wardrobe: "Maybe the man wearing his best jeans and button-down to Mass is truly wearing what is his "Sunday best"
The idea that a suit and tie is somehow the dogmatically-declared attire for Mass is a lie and doesn't really do you any favors when you turn up your nose at others dressed less-well than you and presume that they lack respect for the Lord.
Respect for the Lord follows from the soul, not from what you wear over your sinful flesh. Again, you've only proven my point about trad-emphasis on the exterior trappings before having the soul in order. Whited sepulchres indeed.
I know many men at my Church. They are not poor. Not even close. They do have coats and ties in their closets. They choose not to wear them. Those are the people my comments are focused on. They don't understand the damage that their carelessness has on others. By "dressing down," they help to set a standard, a lower standard. Human nature being what it is, many people will do the absolute minimum that they have to do. The end result can be seen at the typical Novus Ordo parish.
In the rare case, that someone is truly impoverished to such a degree that they cannot afford a coat and tie, then parishioners should pitch in and donate.
If you are not indigent and wearing jeans to Mass, please stop. At least wear a coat, dress shirt, tie, leather shoes, and slacks on Sunday. You don't need a tailored suit. Please show that you care and respect the Holy Sacrifice.
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If you are not indigent and wearing jeans to Mass, please stop. At least wear a coat, dress shirt, tie, leather shoes, and slacks on Sunday. You don't need a tailored suit. Please show that you care and respect the Holy Sacrifice.
You presume that I don't.
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“There is too much of an emphasis on outward things among trad Catholics rather than actually growing in humility and charity.”
"And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?" Saint Matthew 6:28-30
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“There is too much of an emphasis on outward things among trad Catholics rather than actually growing in humility and charity.”
"And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?" Saint Matthew 6:28-30
Yes, spending time coming up with excuses not to dress decently is far more virtuous than taking a couple minutes to put on a suit and tie for Mass.
:facepalm:
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“There is too much of an emphasis on outward things among trad Catholics rather than actually growing in humility and charity.”
"And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?" Saint Matthew 6:28-30
Do the people posting that passage realize it is not advice on how to dress appropriately (or that what you wear does not matter), but is an admonishment to trust that God will provide what you need?
I could likewise cite this passage as a way of trying to prove that you won't make it into heaven without the proper garments:
11 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/22-11.htm)And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. 12 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/22-12.htm)And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having on a wedding garment? But he was silent. 13 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/22-13.htm)Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/22-14.htm)For many are called, but few are chosen. - Matthew 22
I won't do that, since a Catholic reader understands that the wedding garment is somewhat symbolic of other things.
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There's truth to both sides of this dispute. Someone who's poorly dressed could be honoring God with more TRUE internal devotion than someone who's decked out really nicely but distracted during Mass. You can have a saint dressed very poorly and a great sinner looking sharp.
But at the same time, it's important to honor God by dressing the best we can (not over the top so we make a spectacle of ourselves, but in a dignfied manner).
Yet dressing properly is not an absolute or an end in itself. It's more about how it's an expression of our respect and honor to God.
But, let's say you have some medical issues and cannot get properly dressed, or you have to go to work after Mass and don't have time to change out of a suit. Thus the Chuch has always tolerated, especially at weekday Masses, that people come to Mass without being dressed according to "Sunday best" standards. That's part of the reason for this phrase. It was assumed and presumed that people didn't work on Sunday, as it should be, and so there's no such reason not to wear one's best. Yet for weekday Mass, the Church considered it more important that people should be able to assist at Mass and receive the graces therefrom than to be properly dressed.
So dressing properly is not an absolute, and it's not even a virtue in and of itself, (in fact, in excess it can be a sin of pride and vanity), but if one does not dress the best he can ... ALL OTHER CONSIDERATIOINS ASIDE ... that could show a lack of respect for Almighty God.
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Let's say we go to Mass dressed in a suit, and see some guy there in jeans and a T-shirt. We should mind our own business, and not slip into the "thank God I am not like that one there" mentality. "See, God, I honor you, unlike this scuм here." What if it's his first time there? What if, oh, his clothes dryer broke and he didn't have anything else clean? What if he's working two jobs to support his family or a sick parent and has to leave for another job right after Mass? He may be sitting there embarrassed and offering the humiliation to God. Who's pleasing God more in that case, the well-dressed Pharisee or the poorly-dressed humble man?
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Surely, Our Lord doesn't care what a person wears. And while we're on the topic, why does the Catholic Church require priestly vestments and proper attire for altar servers? The Church is obviously wrong on this. After all, does all that formality really matter? Such rigidity! Like the pharisees, no doubt! In fact, who does the priest think he is, dressing like royalty? He should dress like a homeless person to exemplify true humility. He should only wear sandals and grow his hair long (for sure) because all God cares about is that he says Mass. God loves us, not our clothing.
And those lay people who suggest wearing the best clothes that you can afford are just trying to show off their wealth and social status. Posers! They don't care about Our Lord who is all about "the poor" and "the homeless," right? So wouldn't it be best to find clothing appropriate for a homeless person and wear that to Holy Mass. To do anything else is to be prideful, and we all know that pride is the queen of sins.
Maybe it is pride to even think about what you might wear. So I suggest going into your closet with your eyes closed and feeling around. Whatever your hand lands on first is what you should wear. Then you will really be humble and not vain. And the Lord will love you more because he hates vanity and the people who care about wearing "appropriate" attire to Mass. Those evil people. Sinners. Busy bodies.
Whoa! The Church is wrong to require priestly vestments and proper attire for altar servers? You really believe that proper vestments has to do with rigidity and wanting to be like royalty?
Do you understand anything about giving due respect and reverence toward Our Lord at Mass? Do you believe that Holy Eucharist is actually and truly the body and blood of Our Lord? I have to assume not.
And....holy poverty is a council of the Church, but it is NOT a precept. Do you understand the difference?
Yes, trads can be judgmental. But there are many who are not, and who are just quiet and simple. Do you not notice them at Mass? Or are they all bad, in your view?
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Whoa! The Church is wrong to require priestly vestments and proper attire for altar servers? You really believe that proper vestments has to do with rigidity and wanting to be like royalty?
Do you understand anything about giving due respect and reverence toward Our Lord at Mass? Do you believe that Holy Eucharist is actually and truly the body and blood of Our Lord? I have to assume not.
And....holy poverty is a council of the Church, but it is NOT a precept. Do you understand the difference?
Yes, trads can be judgmental. But there are many who are not, and who are just quiet and simple. Do you not notice them at Mass? Or are they all bad, in your view?
The post you commented on was satire.
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A suit/coat and tie is one example of formal wear for men. You are free to choose any FORMAL clothing style you wish, to Sunday mass. But your dress should be formal; that’s non negotiable.
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The post you commented on was satire.
If you say so....it must be true.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGB4l0ZuV2Y