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Author Topic: Stealing "Stolen" Goods  (Read 1216 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Stealing "Stolen" Goods
« on: October 17, 2022, 12:34:51 PM »
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  • Is there a moral teaching on stealing back something you believe is your property (but actually isn't)?  Need a little guidance.  Thanks.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #1 on: October 17, 2022, 12:43:43 PM »
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  • Ask your priest for advice.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #2 on: October 17, 2022, 12:51:02 PM »
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  • Is there a moral teaching on stealing back something you believe is your property (but actually isn't)?  Need a little guidance.  Thanks.
    .
    If you're morally certain something belongs to you, you're morally secure in doing any moral thing with it. 
    .
    If you find out later that it wasn't actually yours, I would think you have an obligation to return it. 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #3 on: October 17, 2022, 12:57:35 PM »
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  • Breaking into someone's home to retrieve it?  And blaming someone else for it when confronted?

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #4 on: October 17, 2022, 01:03:27 PM »
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  • The opinion of Fr. Davis. https://archive.org/details/moralpastoralthe0002davi/page/313/mode/2up
    A bit more detail on the specifics of your case might be of help.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #5 on: October 17, 2022, 01:15:52 PM »
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  • So when a priest steals a child’s innocence , his leadership should do restitution instead of further abusing the victims and families.   They instead made the victims lawyer up and provided lawyers for perverts.  After perverts are convicted the church stills provides medical and other benefits to criminals and their dysfunctional families.  

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #6 on: October 17, 2022, 01:17:21 PM »
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  • I'm not sure if this would apply to stealing or just charitable giving but...

    "And if a man will contend with thee in judgement, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him." (Matt 5: 40)
    Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #7 on: October 17, 2022, 01:18:54 PM »
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  • So when a priest steals a child’s innocence , his leadership should do restitution instead of further abusing the victims and families.  They instead made the victims lawyer up and provided lawyers for perverts.  After perverts are convicted the church stills provides medical and other benefits to criminals and their dysfunctional families. 
    :confused:

    This sounds like material for a different thread.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #8 on: October 17, 2022, 01:22:51 PM »
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  • Thank you Emile.  Quite helpful.  Not sure how to apply the information.  Let me explain my situation with more detail but change identities for privacy.

    Years ago my mother gave me a set of dishes that belonged to my grandmother.  My sister believes I took them from my mother's home without anyone's knowledge which I didn't.  I've kept them in a locked storage room.  Unbeknownst to me a year ago my sister directed her son to break into the storage room and retrieve the dishes because she says my mother promised them to her.  There is no proof other than my sister's word that they were promised to her.  The fact is my mom physically gave them to me and my sister has been aware of this fact since it happened.  I learned recently the dishes were missing and I confronted my sister (because she had previous shown envy towards the dishes) and she confessed that her son had done it.  She also claimed she morally had the right to take them because they were hers and not mine.  She NEVER approached me and asked to have them.  She only made snide comments about them through the years.  

    I believe her son is guilty of felony burglary and theft because of the value of the dishes (exceeding $1000).  She believes they are justified in what they did.  

    Thoughts?

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #9 on: October 17, 2022, 01:23:54 PM »
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  • Breaking into someone's home to retrieve it?  And blaming someone else for it when confronted?
    The end doesn't justify the means. I do not believe you're justified to break into someone's home to get something back even if it's yours. Of course blaming someone else for it is wrong as well. If whatever you took wasn't yours, I think you need to return it. You need to do what you can to restore the good name of whomever you blamed. You should go to confession asap, then do what you can to rectify the situation and make amends. First reconcile yourself with God, and then with your neighbor. 
    Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #10 on: October 17, 2022, 01:24:04 PM »
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  • I'm not sure if this would apply to stealing or just charitable giving but...

    "And if a man will contend with thee in judgement, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him." (Matt 5: 40)

    I told her to keep the dishes but I want to know from a moral perspective if it was theft or not.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #11 on: October 17, 2022, 01:29:09 PM »
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  • Thank you Emile.  Quite helpful.  Not sure how to apply the information.  Let me explain my situation with more detail but change identities for privacy.

    Years ago my mother gave me a set of dishes that belonged to my grandmother.  My sister believes I took them from my mother's home without anyone's knowledge which I didn't.  I've kept them in a locked storage room.  Unbeknownst to me a year ago my sister directed her son to break into the storage room and retrieve the dishes because she says my mother promised them to her.  There is no proof other than my sister's word that they were promised to her.  The fact is my mom physically gave them to me and my sister has been aware of this fact since it happened.  I learned recently the dishes were missing and I confronted my sister (because she had previous shown envy towards the dishes) and she confessed that her son had done it.  She also claimed she morally had the right to take them because they were hers and not mine.  She NEVER approached me and asked to have them.  She only made snide comments about them through the years. 

    I believe her son is guilty of felony burglary and theft because of the value of the dishes (exceeding $1000).  She believes they are justified in what they did. 

    Thoughts?
    I would say.  No. You broke into my home and stole them. How sad that you taught your son to break God’s commandment by stealing.   However, you can have them if you need it so bad.  It’s only material items. 

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #12 on: October 17, 2022, 01:30:47 PM »
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  • Thank you Emile.  Quite helpful.  Not sure how to apply the information.  Let me explain my situation with more detail but change identities for privacy.

    Years ago my mother gave me a set of dishes that belonged to my grandmother.  My sister believes I took them from my mother's home without anyone's knowledge which I didn't.  I've kept them in a locked storage room.  Unbeknownst to me a year ago my sister directed her son to break into the storage room and retrieve the dishes because she says my mother promised them to her.  There is no proof other than my sister's word that they were promised to her.  The fact is my mom physically gave them to me and my sister has been aware of this fact since it happened.  I learned recently the dishes were missing and I confronted my sister (because she had previous shown envy towards the dishes) and she confessed that her son had done it.  She also claimed she morally had the right to take them because they were hers and not mine.  She NEVER approached me and asked to have them.  She only made snide comments about them through the years. 

    I believe her son is guilty of felony burglary and theft because of the value of the dishes (exceeding $1000).  She believes they are justified in what they did. 

    Thoughts?
    Now That I've read your situation, I see that you seem to be the victim here. If I were you, even though you have a right to be upset, I'd try to forgive them. This would be a great act of the virtue of forgiveness. And who knows, they may later seek to rectify the situation when they experience your loving, forgiving response. I think you have a wonderful opportunity to bare witness to the loving forgiveness of a good Christian. 
    Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #13 on: October 17, 2022, 01:32:20 PM »
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  • I told her to keep the dishes but I want to know from a moral perspective if it was theft or not.
    I'd say yes it's theft. Especially breaking into your house. But read my last post in regards to what I think you should do.
    Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Stealing "Stolen" Goods
    « Reply #14 on: October 17, 2022, 01:34:14 PM »
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  • No.  Don’t pay attention to previous post.  Don’t say anything.  Turn other cheek. Try to repair your relationship.