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Poll

Would you allow your SSPX school children to go on a field trip to a Planetarium?

Yes.  What's the problem?
7 (29.2%)
Yes, if I could be assured the SSPX would explain any errors presented by the staff.
8 (33.3%)
No way!
9 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium  (Read 4395 times)

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Offline ByzCat3000

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Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2019, 05:15:57 PM »
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  • I voted no way but not because I am opposed to a trip to the planetarium under certain circuмstances. We just wouldn't send ours to SSPX schools the way they are headed. Very sad to say.
    That seems like a more reasonable stance. Trusting the school enough to let them teach your kids every day, yet NOT trusting them enough to let your child spend one day at a secular planetarium, seems majorly inconsistent.

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #16 on: May 03, 2019, 05:42:26 PM »
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  • That seems like a more reasonable stance. Trusting the school enough to let them teach your kids every day, yet NOT trusting them enough to let your child spend one day at a secular planetarium, seems majorly inconsistent.
    Hello-
    I am the OP, and wanted to address a couple of your points:
    Ideally, we would not send our kids to the SSPX school, because as you say, we no longer trust them.
    However, after having tried to homeschool on a couple occasions, we are simply unable to do it: We have an autistic child, and my wife has health issues.  We also have a large family, and we are making doctor and/or dentist visits at least 2x/week.  We simply don't have the nice ordered life that allows us to routinize homeschooling.  Again, we have tried more than once and failed.

    So, somehow, some way, we need to send them to.....some school.

    That said, the SSPX school is in our circuмstances, the least of all evils (despite the real evils).

    Our only choice is to be vigilant, and mitigate the damage as much as possible.

    Before making this decision, I asked 7 priests and bishops (1 SSPX, and the rest Resistance) for their advice: By a majority of 5-2, they all said to send the kids to the SSPX school, but remain vigilant.

    So, insofar as the SSPX school is unavoidable, all I can do is interject when I become aware of these risky activities.

    What other choice do I have?  Let them stay in the school, and not even try to limit the poison?


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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #17 on: May 03, 2019, 05:53:41 PM »
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  • What do you think of this?

    It is taken from Stephen Fox's "Is This Operation ѕυιcιdє?" (p. 10):

    "By way of example, I recall that some years ago, I and my wife faced the dilemma of how we should educate our high school aged children. By way of background, we are grateful to have access to a Society primary school but when our oldest child was 13 years old we needed to decide whether to educate him by (a) home school (b) state secular school (c) secular private school or (d) "Catholic" private school. I consulted at least five priests of the Society in relation to the issue and I received a number of opinions. The common opinion (from all the priests I consulted) was that I should not send my son to the "Catholic school" because if I did so he would lose his faith. The reason was that the "Catholic school" would mix some truth with error and that he would lose his faith in circuмstances where he would be subjected to the modern system under the name of "Catholicism". The advice was to the effect that if we chose to send him to a high school then we should send him to a school that was irreligious or that was clearly non-Catholic.

    My common sense says that that same reasoning should apply to the issue of whether or not the Society should mix with the Conciliar Church when the Conciliar Church is mired in modernism and liberalism. How can the Society (by its priests) on one hand advise me to keep my children out of the Conciliar Catholic schools but on the other hand propose to put itself (and my family) into the Conciliar Church."
    https://isthisoperationѕυιcιdє.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/operation-ѕυιcιdє-published-20121029.pdf

    The point being, what about sending them to a classical secular charter school with a classical Trivium curriculum?

    It would be worth starting a whole new pole to see if Trads find this alternative given the OP's circuмstances an acceptable option:

    The children will be exposed to drugs, sex-ed, religious indifference, etc., but no subtle attacks on the faith?

    Isn't that "6 of one, and 1/2 dozen of the other?"

    If Mr. Fox is to be believed, classic SSPX priests said otherwise!

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #18 on: May 03, 2019, 06:15:08 PM »
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  • Mr. Fox wrote that in 2013.  Guessing his anecdote was sometime in the 1990's?  Things were bad then too, but not so insane in the school systems as 20+ years later in our own time.  Yes, there would still have been sex-ed then.  But I wonder: Were the SSPX priests he spoke to suffering tunnel vision by focusing on the danger to the faith, but oblivious of the drugs, sex-ed, and all the other problems of secular, anti-Catholic schooling options?  Would those priests have given the same advice in 2012 as they did in, say, 1995?

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #19 on: May 03, 2019, 06:18:42 PM »
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  • I know some SSPX families who have tried the "classical charter school" route.  I don't know any who persevered in that experiment.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #20 on: May 03, 2019, 07:42:41 PM »
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  • It depends on the age of the children. My children were homeschooled, and it's a hard slog, and as OP states, impossible for his sick wife.

    My personal experience is that the most demanding time is when the children are in the early grades getting a grounding in literacy and numeracy. 

    People seem to assume the most demanding and difficult is the upper grades. That is not my experience. Once the children have literacy under their belt they like more independence and mine at least were quite happy (and successful) in autononous learning.

    But in the short term, I don't think you should give your assent to this visit, I think you should explain why to the teacher and to the principal. If the child feels bad, well, you just have to explain why you won't allow it. It will give the child the clear picture that the parent is the one who decides these things.

    Besides, children have to learn to roll with the blow, if indeed it is ablow.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

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    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #21 on: May 03, 2019, 09:00:59 PM »
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  • Hello-
    I am the OP, and wanted to address a couple of your points:
    Ideally, we would not send our kids to the SSPX school, because as you say, we no longer trust them.
    However, after having tried to homeschool on a couple occasions, we are simply unable to do it: We have an autistic child, and my wife has health issues.  We also have a large family, and we are making doctor and/or dentist visits at least 2x/week.  We simply don't have the nice ordered life that allows us to routinize homeschooling.  Again, we have tried more than once and failed.

    So, somehow, some way, we need to send them to.....some school.

    That said, the SSPX school is in our circuмstances, the least of all evils (despite the real evils).

    Our only choice is to be vigilant, and mitigate the damage as much as possible.

    Before making this decision, I asked 7 priests and bishops (1 SSPX, and the rest Resistance) for their advice: By a majority of 5-2, they all said to send the kids to the SSPX school, but remain vigilant.

    So, insofar as the SSPX school is unavoidable, all I can do is interject when I become aware of these risky activities.

    What other choice do I have?  Let them stay in the school, and not even try to limit the poison?

    I sympathize with your situation. I realize that my ability to say no way and then homeschool is a luxury of circuмstances that not everyone is afforded. In spite of the possible dangers, so much depends on the priests in charge and maybe you have a good one. A good, stable SSPX school is still far better than any other alternative. Maybe you have a good rapport with the principal and teachers and can ask to accompany them? Maybe you can ask ahead of time how they plan to treat some of the errors that will be presented? Not all the SSPX priests in the trenches agree with what's going on up top, so maybe you can have confidence in your school. You just have to ask the questions. If not, keep them home and promise to go as a family some day when you can be there to teach them. (If that's possible) 

    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #22 on: May 03, 2019, 09:18:05 PM »
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  • If you do decide to keep them home, just know that children notice when their parents take a stand. If they trust you and you are able to teach them why, but doing so without rancor or resentment towards the teachers they love at school, it's an example that may give them the courage to take a stand themselves someday. Their emotions in the moment may not be happy but that doesn't mean their intellects aren't taking it all in and learning. Sitting something out is not an easy lesson to learn but who better to model that than our parents? 


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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #23 on: May 03, 2019, 09:21:49 PM »
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  • I sympathize with your situation. I realize that my ability to say no way and then homeschool is a luxury of circuмstances that not everyone is afforded. In spite of the possible dangers, so much depends on the priests in charge and maybe you have a good one. A good, stable SSPX school is still far better than any other alternative. Maybe you have a good rapport with the principal and teachers and can ask to accompany them? Maybe you can ask ahead of time how they plan to treat some of the errors that will be presented? Not all the SSPX priests in the trenches agree with what's going on up top, so maybe you can have confidence in your school. You just have to ask the questions. If not, keep them home and promise to go as a family some day when you can be there to teach them. (If that's possible)
    OP here: Though I have requested permission to keep them at home that day, it was a formality (i.e., the SSPX likes to believe they are in charge when they are not).  Regardless of the response, they will stay at home, and if there should be consequences as a result, it will evince God's providence (which will give peace).

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #24 on: May 03, 2019, 09:25:03 PM »
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  • If you do decide to keep them home, just know that children notice when their parents take a stand. If they trust you and you are able to teach them why, but doing so without rancor or resentment towards the teachers they love at school, it's an example that may give them the courage to take a stand themselves someday. Their emotions in the moment may not be happy but that doesn't mean their intellects aren't taking it all in and learning. Sitting something out is not an easy lesson to learn but who better to model that than our parents?
    OP here again: The children are not at all disappointed by my decision.  They are instead embarrassed for the school.  Not sure why some presumed my children opposed my decision?  They are Resistance kids, and I teach them every day about SSPX compromises. They get it.  Despite all that, I am not going to willfully allow them to enter into an occasion of sin, then let myself off the hook by rationalizing convenient justifications about after the fact deprogramming.  No.  They don't go.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #25 on: May 03, 2019, 09:52:39 PM »
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  • Hello-
    I am the OP, and wanted to address a couple of your points:
    Ideally, we would not send our kids to the SSPX school, because as you say, we no longer trust them.
    However, after having tried to homeschool on a couple occasions, we are simply unable to do it: We have an autistic child, and my wife has health issues.  We also have a large family, and we are making doctor and/or dentist visits at least 2x/week.  We simply don't have the nice ordered life that allows us to routinize homeschooling.  Again, we have tried more than once and failed.

    So, somehow, some way, we need to send them to.....some school.

    That said, the SSPX school is in our circuмstances, the least of all evils (despite the real evils).

    Our only choice is to be vigilant, and mitigate the damage as much as possible.

    Before making this decision, I asked 7 priests and bishops (1 SSPX, and the rest Resistance) for their advice: By a majority of 5-2, they all said to send the kids to the SSPX school, but remain vigilant.

    So, insofar as the SSPX school is unavoidable, all I can do is interject when I become aware of these risky activities.

    What other choice do I have?  Let them stay in the school, and not even try to limit the poison?
    OK all of that makes sense.  I have Aspergers myself, so I have some experience from having been on the kid side of the autism issue, but I don't know how much your mileage would vary, or not.

    If your kids are already Resistance kids, I guess I'd question why you're seriously concerned about them going to the Planetarium for one day.  Like I'm not sure how exactly going to the Planetarium for one day will substantially damage their souls in a way that wouldn't be otherwise.  If your children, as you say, are able to understand your reasoning here well enough to be in agreement with it, why couldn't they apply the same discernment to whatever the planetarium workers wound up sharing with them?

    Maybe I'm wrong, and as someone who doesn't have kids, I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone else how to raise there's, especially on a matter that doesn't really have to do with right or wrong (I don't think its wrong to play it safe, especially if your children are on board and thus there's no real danger of exasperating them), I guess I just don't quite understand here.


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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #26 on: May 03, 2019, 09:54:31 PM »
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  • OP here again: The children are not at all disappointed by my decision.  They are instead embarrassed for the school.  Not sure why some presumed my children opposed my decision?  They are Resistance kids, and I teach them every day about SSPX compromises. They get it.  Despite all that, I am not going to willfully allow them to enter into an occasion of sin, then let myself off the hook by rationalizing convenient justifications about after the fact deprogramming.  No.  They don't go.

    That's great! It would be most natural for children to be a bit disappointed in missing a field trip. I would have been. It was nothing personal against you or you children, just knowing human nature. But it sounds like you have it all happily settled.

    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #27 on: May 03, 2019, 09:55:23 PM »
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  • ^^^ homeschoolmom

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #28 on: May 03, 2019, 10:24:05 PM »
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  • If your kids are already Resistance kids, I guess I'd question why you're seriously concerned about them going to the Planetarium for one day.  Like I'm not sure how exactly going to the Planetarium for one day will substantially damage their souls in a way that wouldn't be otherwise.  If your children, as you say, are able to understand your reasoning here well enough to be in agreement with it, why couldn't they apply the same discernment to whatever the planetarium workers wound up sharing with them?
    Being a "Resistance kid" doesn't bullet-proof you from sophistry (particularly sophistry which appears to have the approbation of the SSPX, which may no longer oppose the sophistries of the planetarium staff).  Which is another way of saying, "he who loves danger shall perish in it."  You don't willfully put yourself into occasions against the faith.  Your earlier response to this teaching of Catholic moral theology was moronic: "It is only an intellectual occasion," as though that somehow made it less real.  Satan knows legions millions (billions?) of souls have fallen into hell on the basis of intellectual error (i.e., heresy).  

    Why not simply restate you are not yet fully Catholic, and therefore see exactly eye to eye with the neo-SSPX?

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #29 on: May 04, 2019, 02:57:15 PM »
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  • No way, Jose!