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Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on May 02, 2019, 05:28:31 PM
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I'm not sure a field trip for school children to an atheist-secular planetarium would ever have been a good idea, but at least in former times, if the biased-secular staff went into long ages of the earth, heliocentrism, evolution, etc., we might have presumed the SSPX representatives would correct such opinions in conformity with traditional exegesis on Genesis: I-III.
But in light of the SSPX's promotion of Fr. Robinson's book, I think such presumptions are no longer justified.
If your child's SSPX school was planning a field trip to a planetarium, amidst the present SSPX climate, would you let them attend?
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I don't know where you live, but we had a "challenger center" space and such. So much money went into it and field trips, now it is closed, just couldn't keep it up $$. But I can say I know what you are saying. If the student does not go to the Planetarium, give reasons and where the student can go for true information.
Our family went to the Metorite museum in AZ. The have on display and very large meteorite and claim it is so many millions of years old. I asked how they came to that conclusion, no concrete answers. Ha! The truth is we are at 6, 000 years old or such. That figure comes to us from our years 2019, plus years before Christ came and such. I call that more truer.
I child would get hurt if they could not join the group. Depending on time before the trip, discuss with your child/student you thoughts. Challenge them? Have them take note and report back and challenge what was said, displays and such. Have your child question and where can I find the truth. I think that is a good way to go. Parents are sometimes asked to go for champeron/help. The Planetarium maybe on a website and see what can be expected before going.
We need to help our kids how to question, is it a factor is it an opinion. How does a student go about researching for truth or is it theory? Teach them now. Usually when students go on field trips like this, the student has a chance to report on the trip and such. Then this is a great opportunity to tell it as it is or it is not.
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above post by Songbird
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How can anyone be assured that an SSPX which promotes Fr. Robinson's book will also intervene to restate traditional cosmology?
I'm not sure that is a presumption we can any longer make.
I don't think permitting your children to attend a field trip you would only be comfortable allowing if you could personally be a chaperone is parental responsibility.
How much of the "expert's" indoctrination will you be able to eradicate?
Are you yourself well-read on traditional cosmology, patristic exegesis, and helio vs geocentrism, evolution, etc?
Most aren't.
Also: To knowingly permit your children to enter into an anti-Catholic environment, knowing full well you will have to deprogram later, suggests a awillfulness to endanger their faith.
The children will perceive the planetarium people as the "experts," and the parents as less knowledgeable (just like college students think they know more than their parents because they have learned from the college professors ("experts").
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The poll didn't include the option, "I wouldn't let my children go to an SSPX school."
I would have in the 1990s; definitely wouldn't since 2012.
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I don't know where you live, but we had a "challenger center" space and such. So much money went into it and field trips, now it is closed, just couldn't keep it up $$. But I can say I know what you are saying. If the student does not go to the Planetarium, give reasons and where the student can go for true information.
Our family went to the Metorite museum in AZ. The have on display and very large meteorite and claim it is so many millions of years old. I asked how they came to that conclusion, no concrete answers. Ha! The truth is we are at 6, 000 years old or such. That figure comes to us from our years 2019, plus years before Christ came and such. I call that more truer.
I child would get hurt if they could not join the group. Depending on time before the trip, discuss with your child/student you thoughts. Challenge them? Have them take note and report back and challenge what was said, displays and such. Have your child question and where can I find the truth. I think that is a good way to go. Parents are sometimes asked to go for champeron/help. The Planetarium maybe on a website and see what can be expected before going.
We need to help our kids how to question, is it a factor is it an opinion. How does a student go about researching for truth or is it theory? Teach them now. Usually when students go on field trips like this, the student has a chance to report on the trip and such. Then this is a great opportunity to tell it as it is or it is not.
I don't have kids yet, but this this this this this.I could perhaps see doing otherwise if the children are extremely young, but if not, what better time to learn to think critically than when you can help them do it?
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The poll didn't include the option, "I wouldn't let my children go to an SSPX school."
I would have in the 1990s; definitely wouldn't since 2012.
This applies also to me so I voted No Way!
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I don't know where you live, but we had a "challenger center" space and such. So much money went into it and field trips, now it is closed, just couldn't keep it up $$. But I can say I know what you are saying. If the student does not go to the Planetarium, give reasons and where the student can go for true information.
Our family went to the Metorite museum in AZ. The have on display and very large meteorite and claim it is so many millions of years old. I asked how they came to that conclusion, no concrete answers. Ha! The truth is we are at 6, 000 years old or such. That figure comes to us from our years 2019, plus years before Christ came and such. I call that more truer.
I child would get hurt if they could not join the group. Depending on time before the trip, discuss with your child/student you thoughts. Challenge them? Have them take note and report back and challenge what was said, displays and such. Have your child question and where can I find the truth. I think that is a good way to go. Parents are sometimes asked to go for champeron/help. The Planetarium maybe on a website and see what can be expected before going.
We need to help our kids how to question, is it a factor is it an opinion. How does a student go about researching for truth or is it theory? Teach them now. Usually when students go on field trips like this, the student has a chance to report on the trip and such. Then this is a great opportunity to tell it as it is or it is not.
What mushy liberalism!
"A child would be hurt if he could not join the group."
The reality is exactly the opposite: A child would be kept from harm if he did not join the group.
Moreover, group/herd-mentality is hardly the breeding ground for the very critical and independent thinking you want to advocate.
Ever been to St. Mary's?
The rationale that deliberately placing our children into occasions of sin (e.g., proximate dangers to the faith) is OK, and according to this person, even meritorious, is completely delusional.
The presence of a father does not remove the danger to the faith.
Should I be able to take my child to an immodest waterpark, on the grounds that I will be there to explain to him about Catholic modesty? Will that arm him against the inroads of the devil, or prevent against the onset of concupiscence?
There seems to be some confusion here between occasions of sin which are deliberate (e.g., going to a planetarium; waterpark), and occasions to sin which are necessary, accidental, and unavoidable.
Only in these latter, accidental/unavoidable occasions to sin is the post-facto talk about correcting the errors of the presenters permissible.
To deliberately enter into an occasion against the faith, then talk about it later is not morally permissible.
If it were, what is the basis for not going to the Novus Ordo?
Why, you could just explain to the family what was wrong after the fact, while you plan to attend again next week!
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What mushy liberalism!
"A child would be hurt if he could not join the group."
The reality is exactly the opposite: A child would be kept from harm if he did not join the group.
Moreover, group/herd-mentality is hardly the breeding ground for the very critical and independent thinking you want to advocate.
Ever been to St. Mary's?
The rationale that deliberately placing our children into occasions of sin (e.g., proximate dangers to the faith) is OK, and according to this person, even meritorious, is completely delusional.
The presence of a father does not remove the danger to the faith.
Should I be able to take my child to an immodest waterpark, on the grounds that I will be there to explain to him about Catholic modesty? Will that arm him against the inroads of the devil, or prevent against the onset of concupiscence?
There seems to be some confusion here between occasions of sin which are deliberate (e.g., going to a planetarium; waterpark), and occasions to sin which are necessary, accidental, and unavoidable.
Only in these latter, accidental/unavoidable occasions to sin is the post-facto talk about correcting the errors of the presenters permissible.
To deliberately enter into an occasion against the faith, then talk about it later is not morally permissible.
If it were, what is the basis for not going to the Novus Ordo?
Why, you could just explain to the family what was wrong after the fact, while you plan to attend again next week!
:applause:
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It would be one thing if it were a private field trip, led and conducted by SSPX school representatives (presuming these had not likewise been infected by Fr. Robinson's theories!) and quite another if the field trip were conducted by the planetarium staff.
But even in the former case, there would still be the materials, exhibits, and atmosphere endorsing evolution, long ages of the earth, heliocentrism, etc., so it would still not be without danger.
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Somewhat surprised by the poll results thus far. I would have expected 14-1 in favor of the “No Way!” option, with Poche being the 1.
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TBH I haven't come to the strict/conservative conclusion on the water park thing, though maybe I'm wrong to have not done so (I'm not a full trad TBH, not by the standards of this forum, I have trad leanings.)
But I can make sense of a distinction there.
The water park, assuming its a threat, is not an intellectual threat, but an emotional one.
By which I mean: Evolution/Old Earth is an intellectual issue that can be examined and conceivably refuted through intellectual means. You can't do that with lust. The concern with a water park isn't that the person is going to be intellectually persuaded that lust is acceptable, but just that they're going to wind up doing it. Whereas the concern with the planetarium is conceivably that the student might be intellectually persuaded that evolution or old earth is true.
I get it with very young or very impressionable children, but I'm not a fan of sheltering at least older children/teens from intellectual threats. That's not to say you send them off to public school. Public school isn't just refusing to shelter from intellectual threats, its putting them in an environment where they're getting their entire education from secular premises, in other words they aren't being taught how God connects with anything. I went to Patrick Henry College for two years, classical liberal arts school, its a Protestant school (though honestly I know at least like a dozen people who have converted to Catholicism there, in large part due to the influence of classical education, so you know) but despite that deficiency, in a classical Christian education, you are taught how everything, history, literature, science, etc. relates with God and the Christian faith. Obviously I think that sort of thing needs to be more explicitly Catholic, for Catholic children, but you get the point. Subjecting a child to an entire education regime that is hostile to his faith and which disconnects the world from his faith is bad, bad news.
I don't think a one day trip to the planetarium is comparable. *Even if* the SSPX wouldn't correct errors, that you feel they should correct, you can still talk to them about what they learned and teach them the truth. And I don't think that that's comparable either to a water park (which while as I mentioned, I might need to develop my convictions on, at least is conceivably an actual temptation rather than a mere intellectual threat) or to a full blown education regime that's contrary to our faith.
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*Even if* the SSPX wouldn't correct errors, that you feel they should correct, you can still talk to them about what they learned and teach them the truth.
I can't say for sure because there are some variables but one thing to consider with your point of view is that when parents homeschool, their children are more accustomed to having their parents teach them like this. Go through the lessons at home, get to the truth and the proofs, then take them out and show them the errors of the world once they are ready. When children go to school however and especially an SSPX school where they revere their priests and teachers, the parents might be at a disadvantage in trying to contradict said teachers.
I personally know of big disputes among families where the parents were taught one thing by the original SSPX but their children or grandchildren are being taught something else by nice SSPX. The parents usually lose out. They taught their kids to listen to SSPX priests, so the kids just think -- well this is what my SSPX priest told me, so it's fine.
Parents have to set themselves up as their children's primary teachers from a young age and establish a good, trusting, teaching relationship with their children if they hope to be able to correct anything. Otherwise, children will see their other teachers as the experts and will tend to think their parents are wrong.
It's easy to say just correct the errors but the real question is how likely that child is to take their parents' word over their teachers'.
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I voted no way but not because I am opposed to a trip to the planetarium under certain circuмstances. We just wouldn't send ours to SSPX schools the way they are headed. Very sad to say.
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I can't say for sure because there are some variables but one thing to consider with your point of view is that when parents homeschool, their children are more accustomed to having their parents teach them like this. Go through the lessons at home, get to the truth and the proofs, then take them out and show them the errors of the world once they are ready. When children go to school however and especially an SSPX school where they revere their priests and teachers, the parents might be at a disadvantage in trying to contradict said teachers.
I personally know of big disputes among families where the parents were taught one thing by the original SSPX but their children or grandchildren are being taught something else by nice SSPX. The parents usually lose out. They taught their kids to listen to SSPX priests, so the kids just think -- well this is what my SSPX priest told me, so it's fine.
Parents have to set themselves up as their children's primary teachers from a young age and establish a good, trusting, teaching relationship with their children if they hope to be able to correct anything. Otherwise, children will see their other teachers as the experts and will tend to think their parents are wrong.
It's easy to say just correct the errors but the real question is how likely that child is to take their parents' word over their teachers'.
That's fair. I mean, my own father is a baptist pastor, and my mother is a baptist pastor's wife, obviously I didn't wind up listening to mine in the end :D
I think if this kind of dynamic is going on, the far bigger concern is not the field trip, but the SSPX school itself. If you don't trust the school, you shouldn't be sending them to that school, to be learning, 5 days a week, presumably 6 hours a day.
I obviously realize its easier said than done and everyone is in a different situation. But if you're really in a situation where you can't trust your child's SSPX school, en toto, it seems like that is the far bigger problem. At that point, denying the kid a day trip to the planetarium is likely just to build up more resentment, while not fixing the real problem in the first place.
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I voted no way but not because I am opposed to a trip to the planetarium under certain circuмstances. We just wouldn't send ours to SSPX schools the way they are headed. Very sad to say.
That seems like a more reasonable stance. Trusting the school enough to let them teach your kids every day, yet NOT trusting them enough to let your child spend one day at a secular planetarium, seems majorly inconsistent.
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That seems like a more reasonable stance. Trusting the school enough to let them teach your kids every day, yet NOT trusting them enough to let your child spend one day at a secular planetarium, seems majorly inconsistent.
Hello-
I am the OP, and wanted to address a couple of your points:
Ideally, we would not send our kids to the SSPX school, because as you say, we no longer trust them.
However, after having tried to homeschool on a couple occasions, we are simply unable to do it: We have an autistic child, and my wife has health issues. We also have a large family, and we are making doctor and/or dentist visits at least 2x/week. We simply don't have the nice ordered life that allows us to routinize homeschooling. Again, we have tried more than once and failed.
So, somehow, some way, we need to send them to.....some school.
That said, the SSPX school is in our circuмstances, the least of all evils (despite the real evils).
Our only choice is to be vigilant, and mitigate the damage as much as possible.
Before making this decision, I asked 7 priests and bishops (1 SSPX, and the rest Resistance) for their advice: By a majority of 5-2, they all said to send the kids to the SSPX school, but remain vigilant.
So, insofar as the SSPX school is unavoidable, all I can do is interject when I become aware of these risky activities.
What other choice do I have? Let them stay in the school, and not even try to limit the poison?
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What do you think of this?
It is taken from Stephen Fox's "Is This Operation ѕυιcιdє?" (p. 10):
"By way of example, I recall that some years ago, I and my wife faced the dilemma of how we should educate our high school aged children. By way of background, we are grateful to have access to a Society primary school but when our oldest child was 13 years old we needed to decide whether to educate him by (a) home school (b) state secular school (c) secular private school or (d) "Catholic" private school. I consulted at least five priests of the Society in relation to the issue and I received a number of opinions. The common opinion (from all the priests I consulted) was that I should not send my son to the "Catholic school" because if I did so he would lose his faith. The reason was that the "Catholic school" would mix some truth with error and that he would lose his faith in circuмstances where he would be subjected to the modern system under the name of "Catholicism". The advice was to the effect that if we chose to send him to a high school then we should send him to a school that was irreligious or that was clearly non-Catholic.
My common sense says that that same reasoning should apply to the issue of whether or not the Society should mix with the Conciliar Church when the Conciliar Church is mired in modernism and liberalism. How can the Society (by its priests) on one hand advise me to keep my children out of the Conciliar Catholic schools but on the other hand propose to put itself (and my family) into the Conciliar Church."
https://isthisoperationѕυιcιdє.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/operation-ѕυιcιdє-published-20121029.pdf (https://isthisoperationѕυιcιdє.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/operation-ѕυιcιdє-published-20121029.pdf)
The point being, what about sending them to a classical secular charter school with a classical Trivium curriculum?
It would be worth starting a whole new pole to see if Trads find this alternative given the OP's circuмstances an acceptable option:
The children will be exposed to drugs, sex-ed, religious indifference, etc., but no subtle attacks on the faith?
Isn't that "6 of one, and 1/2 dozen of the other?"
If Mr. Fox is to be believed, classic SSPX priests said otherwise!
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Mr. Fox wrote that in 2013. Guessing his anecdote was sometime in the 1990's? Things were bad then too, but not so insane in the school systems as 20+ years later in our own time. Yes, there would still have been sex-ed then. But I wonder: Were the SSPX priests he spoke to suffering tunnel vision by focusing on the danger to the faith, but oblivious of the drugs, sex-ed, and all the other problems of secular, anti-Catholic schooling options? Would those priests have given the same advice in 2012 as they did in, say, 1995?
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I know some SSPX families who have tried the "classical charter school" route. I don't know any who persevered in that experiment.
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It depends on the age of the children. My children were homeschooled, and it's a hard slog, and as OP states, impossible for his sick wife.
My personal experience is that the most demanding time is when the children are in the early grades getting a grounding in literacy and numeracy.
People seem to assume the most demanding and difficult is the upper grades. That is not my experience. Once the children have literacy under their belt they like more independence and mine at least were quite happy (and successful) in autononous learning.
But in the short term, I don't think you should give your assent to this visit, I think you should explain why to the teacher and to the principal. If the child feels bad, well, you just have to explain why you won't allow it. It will give the child the clear picture that the parent is the one who decides these things.
Besides, children have to learn to roll with the blow, if indeed it is ablow.
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Hello-
I am the OP, and wanted to address a couple of your points:
Ideally, we would not send our kids to the SSPX school, because as you say, we no longer trust them.
However, after having tried to homeschool on a couple occasions, we are simply unable to do it: We have an autistic child, and my wife has health issues. We also have a large family, and we are making doctor and/or dentist visits at least 2x/week. We simply don't have the nice ordered life that allows us to routinize homeschooling. Again, we have tried more than once and failed.
So, somehow, some way, we need to send them to.....some school.
That said, the SSPX school is in our circuмstances, the least of all evils (despite the real evils).
Our only choice is to be vigilant, and mitigate the damage as much as possible.
Before making this decision, I asked 7 priests and bishops (1 SSPX, and the rest Resistance) for their advice: By a majority of 5-2, they all said to send the kids to the SSPX school, but remain vigilant.
So, insofar as the SSPX school is unavoidable, all I can do is interject when I become aware of these risky activities.
What other choice do I have? Let them stay in the school, and not even try to limit the poison?
I sympathize with your situation. I realize that my ability to say no way and then homeschool is a luxury of circuмstances that not everyone is afforded. In spite of the possible dangers, so much depends on the priests in charge and maybe you have a good one. A good, stable SSPX school is still far better than any other alternative. Maybe you have a good rapport with the principal and teachers and can ask to accompany them? Maybe you can ask ahead of time how they plan to treat some of the errors that will be presented? Not all the SSPX priests in the trenches agree with what's going on up top, so maybe you can have confidence in your school. You just have to ask the questions. If not, keep them home and promise to go as a family some day when you can be there to teach them. (If that's possible)
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If you do decide to keep them home, just know that children notice when their parents take a stand. If they trust you and you are able to teach them why, but doing so without rancor or resentment towards the teachers they love at school, it's an example that may give them the courage to take a stand themselves someday. Their emotions in the moment may not be happy but that doesn't mean their intellects aren't taking it all in and learning. Sitting something out is not an easy lesson to learn but who better to model that than our parents?
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I sympathize with your situation. I realize that my ability to say no way and then homeschool is a luxury of circuмstances that not everyone is afforded. In spite of the possible dangers, so much depends on the priests in charge and maybe you have a good one. A good, stable SSPX school is still far better than any other alternative. Maybe you have a good rapport with the principal and teachers and can ask to accompany them? Maybe you can ask ahead of time how they plan to treat some of the errors that will be presented? Not all the SSPX priests in the trenches agree with what's going on up top, so maybe you can have confidence in your school. You just have to ask the questions. If not, keep them home and promise to go as a family some day when you can be there to teach them. (If that's possible)
OP here: Though I have requested permission to keep them at home that day, it was a formality (i.e., the SSPX likes to believe they are in charge when they are not). Regardless of the response, they will stay at home, and if there should be consequences as a result, it will evince God's providence (which will give peace).
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If you do decide to keep them home, just know that children notice when their parents take a stand. If they trust you and you are able to teach them why, but doing so without rancor or resentment towards the teachers they love at school, it's an example that may give them the courage to take a stand themselves someday. Their emotions in the moment may not be happy but that doesn't mean their intellects aren't taking it all in and learning. Sitting something out is not an easy lesson to learn but who better to model that than our parents?
OP here again: The children are not at all disappointed by my decision. They are instead embarrassed for the school. Not sure why some presumed my children opposed my decision? They are Resistance kids, and I teach them every day about SSPX compromises. They get it. Despite all that, I am not going to willfully allow them to enter into an occasion of sin, then let myself off the hook by rationalizing convenient justifications about after the fact deprogramming. No. They don't go.
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Hello-
I am the OP, and wanted to address a couple of your points:
Ideally, we would not send our kids to the SSPX school, because as you say, we no longer trust them.
However, after having tried to homeschool on a couple occasions, we are simply unable to do it: We have an autistic child, and my wife has health issues. We also have a large family, and we are making doctor and/or dentist visits at least 2x/week. We simply don't have the nice ordered life that allows us to routinize homeschooling. Again, we have tried more than once and failed.
So, somehow, some way, we need to send them to.....some school.
That said, the SSPX school is in our circuмstances, the least of all evils (despite the real evils).
Our only choice is to be vigilant, and mitigate the damage as much as possible.
Before making this decision, I asked 7 priests and bishops (1 SSPX, and the rest Resistance) for their advice: By a majority of 5-2, they all said to send the kids to the SSPX school, but remain vigilant.
So, insofar as the SSPX school is unavoidable, all I can do is interject when I become aware of these risky activities.
What other choice do I have? Let them stay in the school, and not even try to limit the poison?
OK all of that makes sense. I have Aspergers myself, so I have some experience from having been on the kid side of the autism issue, but I don't know how much your mileage would vary, or not.
If your kids are already Resistance kids, I guess I'd question why you're seriously concerned about them going to the Planetarium for one day. Like I'm not sure how exactly going to the Planetarium for one day will substantially damage their souls in a way that wouldn't be otherwise. If your children, as you say, are able to understand your reasoning here well enough to be in agreement with it, why couldn't they apply the same discernment to whatever the planetarium workers wound up sharing with them?
Maybe I'm wrong, and as someone who doesn't have kids, I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone else how to raise there's, especially on a matter that doesn't really have to do with right or wrong (I don't think its wrong to play it safe, especially if your children are on board and thus there's no real danger of exasperating them), I guess I just don't quite understand here.
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OP here again: The children are not at all disappointed by my decision. They are instead embarrassed for the school. Not sure why some presumed my children opposed my decision? They are Resistance kids, and I teach them every day about SSPX compromises. They get it. Despite all that, I am not going to willfully allow them to enter into an occasion of sin, then let myself off the hook by rationalizing convenient justifications about after the fact deprogramming. No. They don't go.
That's great! It would be most natural for children to be a bit disappointed in missing a field trip. I would have been. It was nothing personal against you or you children, just knowing human nature. But it sounds like you have it all happily settled.
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^^^ homeschoolmom
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If your kids are already Resistance kids, I guess I'd question why you're seriously concerned about them going to the Planetarium for one day. Like I'm not sure how exactly going to the Planetarium for one day will substantially damage their souls in a way that wouldn't be otherwise. If your children, as you say, are able to understand your reasoning here well enough to be in agreement with it, why couldn't they apply the same discernment to whatever the planetarium workers wound up sharing with them?
Being a "Resistance kid" doesn't bullet-proof you from sophistry (particularly sophistry which appears to have the approbation of the SSPX, which may no longer oppose the sophistries of the planetarium staff). Which is another way of saying, "he who loves danger shall perish in it." You don't willfully put yourself into occasions against the faith. Your earlier response to this teaching of Catholic moral theology was moronic: "It is only an intellectual occasion," as though that somehow made it less real. Satan knows legions millions (billions?) of souls have fallen into hell on the basis of intellectual error (i.e., heresy).
Why not simply restate you are not yet fully Catholic, and therefore see exactly eye to eye with the neo-SSPX?
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No way, Jose!
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Being a "Resistance kid" doesn't bullet-proof you from sophistry (particularly sophistry which appears to have the approbation of the SSPX, which may no longer oppose the sophistries of the planetarium staff). Which is another way of saying, "he who loves danger shall perish in it." You don't willfully put yourself into occasions against the faith. Your earlier response to this teaching of Catholic moral theology was moronic: "It is only an intellectual occasion," as though that somehow made it less real. Satan knows legions millions (billions?) of souls have fallen into hell on the basis of intellectual error (i.e., heresy).
Why not simply restate you are not yet fully Catholic, and therefore see exactly eye to eye with the neo-SSPX?
First off, if you want to be a jerk, at least use your forum name instead of hiding behind anonymity like a coward. Come on.
I'm a catechumen. I've been up front about this. I believe in every single dogma of the Catholic Church, thus I am "fully Catholic." I have admitted before that I do not constitute a fully traditional Catholic by the standards of this forum. I have traditional leanings. I admire Lefebvre. I probably am more close to the "Neo-SSPX" than the SSPX Resistance all things considered, but I also don't go on an SSPX Resistance board to trash the SSPX Resistance, 'cause that would be majorly majorly counter productive. I don't hide where I stand, but neither do I feel like coming on to pick fights for no reason.
I wasn't saying an intellectual occasion isn't real, but it seems like more the sort of thing that can be countered with sound reasoning, rather than needing to shelter from the objection outright.
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^^^ homeschoolmom
To be clear, my above comment is directed at whatever person decided to make a nasty comment to me annonymously, not trying to challenge your position further.