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Poll

Would you allow your SSPX school children to go on a field trip to a Planetarium?

Yes.  What's the problem?
7 (29.2%)
Yes, if I could be assured the SSPX would explain any errors presented by the staff.
8 (33.3%)
No way!
9 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium  (Read 1978 times)

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Änσnymσus

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SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
« on: May 02, 2019, 05:28:31 PM »
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  • I'm not sure a field trip for school children to an atheist-secular planetarium would ever have been a good idea, but at least in former times, if the biased-secular staff went into long ages of the earth, heliocentrism, evolution, etc., we might have presumed the SSPX representatives would correct such opinions in conformity with traditional exegesis on Genesis: I-III.

    But in light of the SSPX's promotion of Fr. Robinson's book, I think such presumptions are no longer justified.

    If your child's SSPX school was planning a field trip to a planetarium, amidst the present SSPX climate, would you let them attend?


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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 07:22:07 PM »
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  • I don't know where you live, but we had a "challenger center" space and such.  So much money went into it and field trips, now it is closed, just couldn't keep it up $$.  But I can say I know what you are saying.  If the student does not go to the Planetarium, give reasons and where the student can go for true information.

    Our family went to the Metorite museum in AZ.  The have on display and very large meteorite and claim it is so many millions of years old.  I asked how they came to that conclusion, no concrete answers.  Ha! The truth is we are at 6, 000 years old or such.  That figure comes to us from our years 2019,  plus years before Christ came and such.  I call that more truer.

    I child would get hurt if they could not join the group.  Depending on time before the trip, discuss with your child/student you thoughts.  Challenge them?  Have them take note and report back and challenge what was said, displays and such.  Have your child question and where can I find the truth.  I think that is a good way to go.  Parents are sometimes asked to go for champeron/help.  The Planetarium maybe on a website and see what can be expected before going.

    We need to help our kids how to question, is it a factor is it an opinion. How does a student go about researching for truth or is it theory?  Teach them now.  Usually when students go on field trips like this, the student has a chance to report on the trip and such.  Then this is a great opportunity to tell it as it is or it is not.



    Änσnymσus

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 07:22:28 PM »
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  • above post by Songbird

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 07:56:46 PM »
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  • How can anyone be assured that an SSPX which promotes Fr. Robinson's book will also intervene to restate traditional cosmology?

    I'm not sure that is a presumption we can any longer make.

    I don't think permitting your children to attend a field trip you would only be comfortable allowing if you could personally be a chaperone is parental responsibility.

    How much of the "expert's" indoctrination will you be able to eradicate?

    Are you yourself well-read on traditional cosmology, patristic exegesis, and helio vs geocentrism, evolution, etc?

    Most aren't.

    Also: To knowingly permit your children to enter into an anti-Catholic environment, knowing full well you will have to deprogram later, suggests a awillfulness to endanger their faith.

    The children will perceive the planetarium people as the "experts," and the parents as less knowledgeable (just like college students think they know more than their parents because they have learned from the college professors ("experts"). 

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #4 on: May 02, 2019, 08:02:36 PM »
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  • The poll didn't include the option, "I wouldn't let my children go to an SSPX school." 

    I would have in the 1990s; definitely wouldn't since 2012.  


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #5 on: May 02, 2019, 10:23:40 PM »
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  • I don't know where you live, but we had a "challenger center" space and such.  So much money went into it and field trips, now it is closed, just couldn't keep it up $$.  But I can say I know what you are saying.  If the student does not go to the Planetarium, give reasons and where the student can go for true information.

    Our family went to the Metorite museum in AZ.  The have on display and very large meteorite and claim it is so many millions of years old.  I asked how they came to that conclusion, no concrete answers.  Ha! The truth is we are at 6, 000 years old or such.  That figure comes to us from our years 2019,  plus years before Christ came and such.  I call that more truer.

    I child would get hurt if they could not join the group.  Depending on time before the trip, discuss with your child/student you thoughts.  Challenge them?  Have them take note and report back and challenge what was said, displays and such.  Have your child question and where can I find the truth.  I think that is a good way to go.  Parents are sometimes asked to go for champeron/help.  The Planetarium maybe on a website and see what can be expected before going.

    We need to help our kids how to question, is it a factor is it an opinion. How does a student go about researching for truth or is it theory?  Teach them now.  Usually when students go on field trips like this, the student has a chance to report on the trip and such.  Then this is a great opportunity to tell it as it is or it is not.
    I don't have kids yet, but this this this this this.I could perhaps see doing otherwise if the children are extremely young, but if not, what better time to learn to think critically than when you can help them do it?  

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #6 on: May 03, 2019, 03:43:42 AM »
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  • The poll didn't include the option, "I wouldn't let my children go to an SSPX school."

    I would have in the 1990s; definitely wouldn't since 2012.  
    This applies also to me so I voted No Way!

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #7 on: May 03, 2019, 05:51:12 AM »
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  • I don't know where you live, but we had a "challenger center" space and such.  So much money went into it and field trips, now it is closed, just couldn't keep it up $$.  But I can say I know what you are saying.  If the student does not go to the Planetarium, give reasons and where the student can go for true information.

    Our family went to the Metorite museum in AZ.  The have on display and very large meteorite and claim it is so many millions of years old.  I asked how they came to that conclusion, no concrete answers.  Ha! The truth is we are at 6, 000 years old or such.  That figure comes to us from our years 2019,  plus years before Christ came and such.  I call that more truer.

    I child would get hurt if they could not join the group.  Depending on time before the trip, discuss with your child/student you thoughts.  Challenge them?  Have them take note and report back and challenge what was said, displays and such.  Have your child question and where can I find the truth.  I think that is a good way to go.  Parents are sometimes asked to go for champeron/help.  The Planetarium maybe on a website and see what can be expected before going.

    We need to help our kids how to question, is it a factor is it an opinion. How does a student go about researching for truth or is it theory?  Teach them now.  Usually when students go on field trips like this, the student has a chance to report on the trip and such.  Then this is a great opportunity to tell it as it is or it is not.
    What mushy liberalism!
    "A child would be hurt if he could not join the group."
    The reality is exactly the opposite: A child would be kept from harm if he did not join the group.
    Moreover, group/herd-mentality is hardly the breeding ground for the very critical and independent thinking you want to advocate.
    Ever been to St. Mary's?
    The rationale that deliberately placing our children into occasions of sin (e.g., proximate dangers to the faith) is OK, and according to this person, even meritorious, is completely delusional.  
    The presence of a father does not remove the danger to the faith.
    Should I be able to take my child to an immodest waterpark, on the grounds that I will be there to explain to him about Catholic modesty?  Will that arm him against the inroads of the devil, or prevent against the onset of concupiscence?
    There seems to be some confusion here between occasions of sin which are deliberate (e.g., going to a planetarium; waterpark), and occasions to sin which are necessary, accidental, and unavoidable.
    Only in these latter, accidental/unavoidable occasions to sin is the post-facto talk about correcting the errors of the presenters permissible.
    To deliberately enter into an occasion against the faith, then talk about it later is not morally permissible.
    If it were, what is the basis for not going to the Novus Ordo?  
    Why, you could just explain to the family what was wrong after the fact, while you plan to attend again next week!


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #8 on: May 03, 2019, 06:00:27 AM »
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  • What mushy liberalism!
    "A child would be hurt if he could not join the group."
    The reality is exactly the opposite: A child would be kept from harm if he did not join the group.
    Moreover, group/herd-mentality is hardly the breeding ground for the very critical and independent thinking you want to advocate.
    Ever been to St. Mary's?
    The rationale that deliberately placing our children into occasions of sin (e.g., proximate dangers to the faith) is OK, and according to this person, even meritorious, is completely delusional.  
    The presence of a father does not remove the danger to the faith.
    Should I be able to take my child to an immodest waterpark, on the grounds that I will be there to explain to him about Catholic modesty?  Will that arm him against the inroads of the devil, or prevent against the onset of concupiscence?
    There seems to be some confusion here between occasions of sin which are deliberate (e.g., going to a planetarium; waterpark), and occasions to sin which are necessary, accidental, and unavoidable.
    Only in these latter, accidental/unavoidable occasions to sin is the post-facto talk about correcting the errors of the presenters permissible.
    To deliberately enter into an occasion against the faith, then talk about it later is not morally permissible.
    If it were, what is the basis for not going to the Novus Ordo?  
    Why, you could just explain to the family what was wrong after the fact, while you plan to attend again next week!
    :applause:
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #9 on: May 03, 2019, 06:17:34 AM »
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  • It would be one thing if it were a private field trip, led and conducted by SSPX school representatives (presuming these had not likewise been infected by Fr. Robinson's theories!) and quite another if the field trip were conducted by the planetarium staff.

    But even in the former case, there would still be the materials, exhibits, and atmosphere endorsing evolution, long ages of the earth, heliocentrism, etc., so it would still not be without danger.

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #10 on: May 03, 2019, 02:16:04 PM »
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  • Somewhat surprised by the poll results thus far.  I would have expected 14-1 in favor of the “No Way!” option, with Poche being the 1.


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #11 on: May 03, 2019, 02:30:25 PM »
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  • TBH I haven't come to the strict/conservative conclusion on the water park thing, though maybe I'm wrong to have not done so (I'm not a full trad TBH, not by the standards of this forum, I have trad leanings.)

    But I can make sense of a distinction there.

    The water park, assuming its a threat, is not an intellectual threat, but an emotional one.  

    By which I mean: Evolution/Old Earth is an intellectual issue that can be examined and conceivably refuted through intellectual means.  You can't do that with lust.  The concern with a water park isn't that the person is going to be intellectually persuaded that lust is acceptable, but just that they're going to wind up doing it.  Whereas the concern with the planetarium is conceivably that the student might be intellectually persuaded that evolution or old earth is true.  

    I get it with very young or very impressionable children, but I'm not a fan of sheltering at least older children/teens from intellectual threats.  That's not to say you send them off to public school.  Public school isn't just refusing to shelter from intellectual threats, its putting them in an environment where they're getting their entire education from secular premises, in other words they aren't being taught how God connects with anything.  I went to Patrick Henry College for two years, classical liberal arts school, its a Protestant school (though honestly I know at least like a dozen people who have converted to Catholicism there, in large part due to the influence of classical education, so you know) but despite that deficiency, in a classical Christian education, you are taught how everything, history, literature, science, etc. relates with God and the Christian faith.  Obviously I think that sort of thing needs to be more explicitly Catholic, for Catholic children, but you get the point.  Subjecting a child to an entire education regime that is hostile to his faith and which disconnects the world from his faith is bad, bad news.

    I don't think a one day trip to the planetarium is comparable.  *Even if* the SSPX wouldn't correct errors, that you feel they should correct, you can still talk to them about what they learned and teach them the truth.  And I don't think that that's comparable either to a water park (which while as I mentioned, I might need to develop my convictions on, at least is conceivably an actual temptation rather than a mere intellectual threat) or to a full blown education regime that's contrary to our faith.

    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #12 on: May 03, 2019, 04:29:12 PM »
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  • *Even if* the SSPX wouldn't correct errors, that you feel they should correct, you can still talk to them about what they learned and teach them the truth.

    I can't say for sure because there are some variables but one thing to consider with your point of view is that when parents homeschool, their children are more accustomed to having their parents teach them like this. Go through the lessons at home, get to the truth and the proofs, then take them out and show them the errors of the world once they are ready. When children go to school however and especially an SSPX school where they revere their priests and teachers, the parents might be at a disadvantage in trying to contradict said teachers.

    I personally know of big disputes among families where the parents were taught one thing by the original SSPX but their children or grandchildren are being taught something else by nice SSPX. The parents usually lose out. They taught their kids to listen to SSPX priests, so the kids just think -- well this is what my SSPX priest told me, so it's fine.  

    Parents have to set themselves up as their children's primary teachers from a young age and establish a good, trusting, teaching relationship with their children if they hope to be able to correct anything. Otherwise, children will see their other teachers as the experts and will tend to think their parents are wrong.  

    It's easy to say just correct the errors but the real question is how likely that child is to take their parents' word over their teachers'. 

    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #13 on: May 03, 2019, 04:31:41 PM »
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  • I voted no way but not because I am opposed to a trip to the planetarium under certain circuмstances. We just wouldn't send ours to SSPX schools the way they are headed. Very sad to say. 

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: SSPX Field Trip to Planetarium
    « Reply #14 on: May 03, 2019, 05:09:04 PM »
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  • I can't say for sure because there are some variables but one thing to consider with your point of view is that when parents homeschool, their children are more accustomed to having their parents teach them like this. Go through the lessons at home, get to the truth and the proofs, then take them out and show them the errors of the world once they are ready. When children go to school however and especially an SSPX school where they revere their priests and teachers, the parents might be at a disadvantage in trying to contradict said teachers.

    I personally know of big disputes among families where the parents were taught one thing by the original SSPX but their children or grandchildren are being taught something else by nice SSPX. The parents usually lose out. They taught their kids to listen to SSPX priests, so the kids just think -- well this is what my SSPX priest told me, so it's fine.  

    Parents have to set themselves up as their children's primary teachers from a young age and establish a good, trusting, teaching relationship with their children if they hope to be able to correct anything. Otherwise, children will see their other teachers as the experts and will tend to think their parents are wrong.  

    It's easy to say just correct the errors but the real question is how likely that child is to take their parents' word over their teachers'.
    That's fair.  I mean, my own father is a baptist pastor, and my mother is a baptist pastor's wife, obviously I didn't wind up listening to mine in the end :D 

    I think if this kind of dynamic is going on, the far bigger concern is not the field trip, but the SSPX school itself.  If you don't trust the school, you shouldn't be sending them to that school, to be learning, 5 days a week, presumably 6 hours a day.  

    I obviously realize its easier said than done and everyone is in a different situation.  But if you're really in a situation where you can't trust your child's SSPX school, en toto, it seems like that is the far bigger problem.  At that point, denying the kid a day trip to the planetarium is likely just to build up more resentment, while not fixing the real problem in the first place.