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Author Topic: SSPX Fake Priests  (Read 8557 times)

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Bishop Tissier de Mallerais, New rite of Ordination
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2025, 06:41:20 PM »
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  • https://novusordowatch.org/2016/07/tissier-invalidity-novus-ordo-ordinations/

    "...regarding the problems with the new ordination rite of Paul VI, not only with regard to priestly ordinations but most especially — and much more importantly — with regard to the consecration of bishops. For if the Modernist Sect does not have valid bishops, then it does not matter how valid in itself the ordination rite of priests might be, since a valid bishop is absolutely necessary for the valid conferring of holy orders.

    Here, then, a quick reality check:
    ...
    The following is the relevant part of Bp. Tissier’s sermon in English. While the SSPX bishop speaks about those parts of the Novus Ordo rite of priestly ordination that, strictly speaking, are irrelevant to validity, since, as he himself admits, they occur in the rite after the sacrament has already (supposedly) been conferred, the big story here is not whether his arguments are sound or not, but simply the curious fact that the French bishop is once again broaching a very touchy subject that could put an insurmountable barrier into the ongoing reconciliation efforts between the SSPX leadership and the Vatican:

    """…The Fraternity uses all available means today, in light of the situation in the Church, to transmit to all priests of the Church this truth of the priesthood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the reality of Christ, Priest and King, to communicate this to the whole Church.

    This nature of the priest as mediator seems to me to be very simply illustrated in the priestly ordination ceremony.

    By the anointing of the priest’s hands, by the tradition of the chalice and the paten, and by the second imposition of the hands accompanied with the power to absolve sins. Now these three rites are accomplished at the end of the ordination when the ordinands are already priests by the silent imposition of the bishop’s hands and the consecratory preface. They are already priests. Nevertheless, the Church insists, through these three secondary rites, on specifying the nature of the priest’s power.

    First of all, the anointing of the hands, so beautiful, so meaningful. The priest is no longer a man like others, he is a consecrated man because he receives the anointing of his hands. Anointing the two hands of the ordinand, of the ordained, the priest [bishop] pronounces these words: “Consecrate and sanctify, O Lord, these hands by this unction and our blessing so that whatsoever they shall bless and consecrate be consecrated and made holy, in the name of the Lord.” From now on, dear candidates to the priesthood, you will work wonders, you will consecrate and sanctify. Consecrating at mass, of course, holding the chalice that will become the chalice of the Precious Blood, and holding the paten that will become the paten holding Our Lord Jesus Christ, His immolated Body. Thus, you will consecrate the Holy Eucharist, you will renew sacramentally the sacrifice of the Cross. And you will sanctify souls through your hands, through all the blessings of the Church, through baptism, and through the Holy Communion you will give.

    But, dear faithful, this marvelous anointing of the priest’s hands was tampered with [truqué] by the Conciliar Church 46 years ago. Paul VI instituted other words, which say nothing of consecration or sanctification. That is why we preciously safeguard the treasure of these ordination prayers.

    The second rite is the rite of presenting the young priest with the chalice and the paten, with these very clear words: “Receive the power to offer sacrifice to God.” These words you will not find in the other parts of the ordination. Nowhere. It is in this secondary rite that you will ultimately find specified what this priesthood is you are going to receive. “Receive the power to offer sacrifice to God,” and it continues, “and to celebrate masses for the living as well as for the dead, in the name of the Lord.”  To celebrate masses, this is quite clear, for the living as well as for the dead.

    Not only a sacrifice of praise for the living, but also the sacrifice of expiation and propitiation for the souls in purgatory, who are no longer spoken of in the Church today. Your priesthood is a priesthood having effects for eternity, not only on earth but in Heaven for admitting in souls, and in purgatory for the deliverance of souls.

    Archbishop Lefebvre would tell us: “The priest is a man of eternity, who lives not only in time, but whose priesthood has eternal effects.”

    But this prayer, once again, was tampered with by the Conciliar Church—the new ordination rite where the bishop presents the chalice and the paten, with the wine and the host, yes, simply saying: “Receive the gifts of the faithful, to offer them to God.” So, what does that mean? You are receiving the gifts of the faithful to offer them to God? Is that all? We are not receiving the gifts of the faithful, we are receiving the gift of God, which is Our Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed on the Cross, to offer Him anew to God the Father. This is the truth! Obviously, we cannot accept this new, tampered with ordination rite, which casts doubts on the validity of numerous ordinations [done] according to the new rite.

    And finally, the third beautiful rite—secondary, it is true, but still so important—the power to absolve sins. The priest [bishop] says to the ordinand, as he spreads open his chasuble to signify he shall thenceforth be able to exercise his priesthood and all of his priestly functions: “Receive the Holy Ghost, whose sins thou shalt forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins thou shalt retain, they are retained.” These beautiful words of Our Lord to the Apostles on Easter, on Easter evening, what could be more beautiful? To express this power, which the young priests have already received by the silent imposition of hands and the preface, this is true, but expressing it in an explicit manner, that the priest has the power to forgive sins. You will say but only God can forgive sins. Exactly—the priest is the instrument of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sins.

    But, dear faithful, this prayer, this rite of transmitting the power to forgive sins, was simply suppressed in the new rite of ordination. It is no longer mentioned. So this new rite of ordination is not Catholic..."

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #61 on: July 31, 2025, 06:52:45 PM »
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  • Judas was a valid bishop. He has nothing to do with this question. There is no doubt about his validity.

    It is not a sin to say a priest is doubtfully ordained and therefore we should not go to his Mass. Telling the truth is not sinful. For example if I say that Fr. Pfeiffer is very doubtfully a bishop and therefore men ordained by him are most likely not priests but laymen dressing as priests that is not a sin. And the young fellows he ordains are guilty of asking orders from him. Anyone receiving the sacraments from them is foolish. It is silly to go to confession to a man who is not certainly a priest. Because if he is not a priest I remain in my sins. And it if it not certain that he is a priest I don't know my state. Am I still in my sins or were they absolved? I don't know. That is why we must tell men who we don't know if they are priests or not to get conditionally ordained by a certainly valid bishop.
    And that is why I avoid the SSPV like the plague. 


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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #62 on: July 31, 2025, 07:32:54 PM »
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  • Most all trads to the right of neo-SSPXers :facepalm:   False.  You seem to be left (right?) of the sedes. I guess Francis died and made you pope.  
    Nothing to do with validity of ordinations :facepalm:    It has plenty to do with judgement when mistaken for validity as you seem to do. 
    Any Catholic concerned with salvation should be as certain as possible that the sacraments he is receiving are valid :facepalm:   Already acknowledged, if you have doubt don't go to that priest. Pretending you don't know the difference of not going or not gossiping shows you can't tell the difference of who's legit or not.

    New rite of ordination is an ALTERED RITE, deviating from what Pius XII taught concerning ordinations. This altered rite was created by the same heretics who destroyed the mass :facepalm:  Don't go. Then have a firm purpose to quit dividing Catholics. 


    Okay, who is this jackass? :facepalm:  Being rude doesn't help a soul.  

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #63 on: July 31, 2025, 07:42:59 PM »
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  • There's 2 types of doubt - negative and positive.  Negative doubt is personal doubt.  Based on emotions or incomplete facts.

    Positive doubt is based on evidence that there is a problem.  The change in the new rite prayers is all the evidence needed for positive doubt.  The new-sspx does investigations because they aren't sure.  This is called positive doubt.  It's in canon law.

    You keep referring to personal opinion.  This issue with new rites goes all the way back to the 60s, when they first started.  You are highly uneducated on the topic.
    We've been through this. 3 lessons for the scandalmonger. Don't go against your conscience. Take your grievance to the Church about the priests you know are fake. Then practice a modicuм of grace and modesty and stop smearing priests publicly.   

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #64 on: July 31, 2025, 09:00:37 PM »
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  • I agree about the rites. I don't go near doubtful priests. This is why I investigate each and every priest, SSPX or any other group.

    The SSPX leadership is made up of politicians who happen to be priests. Bad politicians.
    Totally agree.


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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #65 on: July 31, 2025, 09:05:41 PM »
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  • We've been through this. 3 lessons for the scandalmonger. Don't go against your conscience. Take your grievance to the Church about the priests you know are fake. Then practice a modicuм of grace and modesty and stop smearing priests publicly. 
    :laugh1:  You still don't get it.  We are catholics, not subjectivists.  Truth is not relative; truth is the same for each and every person, because Truth comes from God.

    The new rites are CHANGED.  The TRUE CHURCH HAS NOT APPROVED OF THE NEW RITES.  Therefore, there is positive doubt, as many, many educated Trads have all said.

    This positive doubt, applies to every catholic.  It is not a 'personal decision'. 

    You can accept reality or not.  But the truth is, this positive doubt remains, even if you decide to put your head in the sand and ignore it.

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #66 on: July 31, 2025, 09:44:10 PM »
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  • :laugh1:  You still don't get it.  We are catholics, not subjectivists.  Truth is not relative; truth is the same for each and every person, because Truth comes from God.

    The new rites are CHANGED.  The TRUE CHURCH HAS NOT APPROVED OF THE NEW RITES.  Therefore, there is positive doubt, as many, many educated Trads have all said.

    This positive doubt, applies to every catholic.  It is not a 'personal decision'.

    You can accept reality or not.  But the truth is, this positive doubt remains, even if you decide to put your head in the sand and ignore it.
    It's a personal decision because you have no idea what God is up to or why He permits it. The way you know the Church approved the new rite is because She practices it in 97% of churches. You are not the Church. You have no authority to declare anything, even if it is true.  You can only do what your conscience tells you.  The worst case scenario is to tell Catholic laity that they are outside the Church and their priests are fake. Either they'll listen and quit the Church entirely as many have (which is on you). Or, they'll dismiss you. The Church has permitted this for a reason, to obtain every last soul possible and reveal the depths of God's mercy for the simplest of his people. There are many in the NO that avoid sin, go to mass, say the rosary and confess their sins. The prelates that foisted this situation on the Church will get their due. Even remotely suggesting nearly all the laity are outside the Church puts you in peril for scandal and division. There is no positive doubt about it, it's your opinion.               

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #67 on: July 31, 2025, 09:47:07 PM »
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  • It's a personal decision because you have no idea what God is up to or why He permits it. The way you know the Church approved the new rite is because She practices it in 97% of churches. You are not the Church. You have no authority to declare anything because you don't know everything. You can only do what your conscience tells you.  The worst case scenario is to tell Catholic laity that they are outside the Church and their priests are fake. Either they'll listen and quit the Church entirely as many have (which is on you). Or, they'll dismiss you. The Church has permitted this for a reason, to obtain every last soul possible and reveal the depths of God's mercy for the simplest of his people. There are many in the NO that avoid sin, go to mass, say the rosary and confess their sins. The prelates that foisted this situation on the Church will get their due. Even remotely suggesting nearly all the laity are outside the Church puts you in peril for scandal and division. There is no positive doubt about it, it's your opinion.             


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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #68 on: July 31, 2025, 09:47:30 PM »
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  • It's a personal decision because you have no idea what God is up to or why He permits it. The way you know the Church approved the new rite is because She practices it in 97% of churches. You are not the Church. You have no authority to declare anything, even if it is true.  You can only do what your conscience tells you.  The worst case scenario is to tell Catholic laity that they are outside the Church and their priests are fake. Either they'll listen and quit the Church entirely as many have (which is on you). Or, they'll dismiss you. The Church has permitted this for a reason, to obtain every last soul possible and reveal the depths of God's mercy for the simplest of his people. There are many in the NO that avoid sin, go to mass, say the rosary and confess their sins. The prelates that foisted this situation on the Church will get their due. Even remotely suggesting nearly all the laity are outside the Church puts you in peril for scandal and division. There is no positive doubt about it, it's your opinion.             
    Right on!  100 percent.  

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #69 on: July 31, 2025, 09:50:48 PM »
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  • It's a personal decision because you have no idea what God is up to or why He permits it. The way you know the Church approved the new rite is because She practices it in 97% of churches. You are not the Church. You have no authority to declare anything, even if it is true.  You can only do what your conscience tells you.  The worst case scenario is to tell Catholic laity that they are outside the Church and their priests are fake. Either they'll listen and quit the Church entirely as many have (which is on you). Or, they'll dismiss you. The Church has permitted this for a reason, to obtain every last soul possible and reveal the depths of God's mercy for the simplest of his people. There are many in the NO that avoid sin, go to mass, say the rosary and confess their sins. The prelates that foisted this situation on the Church will get their due. Even remotely suggesting nearly all the laity are outside the Church puts you in peril for scandal and division. There is no positive doubt about it, it's your opinion.             
    The way you know Arius is right is because 99% of the Bishops are Arian. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::jester::jester::jester::fryingpan::fryingpan::fryingpan:

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #70 on: July 31, 2025, 09:51:23 PM »
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  • Right on!  100 percent. 
    Incredibly wrong


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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #71 on: July 31, 2025, 09:53:34 PM »
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  • It's a personal decision because you have no idea what God is up to or why He permits it. The way you know the Church approved the new rite is because She practices it in 97% of churches. You are not the Church. You have no authority to declare anything, even if it is true.  You can only do what your conscience tells you.  The worst case scenario is to tell Catholic laity that they are outside the Church and their priests are fake. Either they'll listen and quit the Church entirely as many have (which is on you). Or, they'll dismiss you. The Church has permitted this for a reason, to obtain every last soul possible and reveal the depths of God's mercy for the simplest of his people. There are many in the NO that avoid sin, go to mass, say the rosary and confess their sins. The prelates that foisted this situation on the Church will get their due. Even remotely suggesting nearly all the laity are outside the Church puts you in peril for scandal and division. There is no positive doubt about it, it's your opinion.             
    This is nonsense based on the false doctrine that people can't commit mortal sins if they live in ignorance. We have a positive doubt as Pope Pius 12th defined the essential form, Vatican 2 changed that form. This is a REAL change, hence a positive doubt.

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #72 on: July 31, 2025, 11:27:00 PM »
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  • It's a personal decision because you have no idea what God is up to or why He permits it. The way you know the Church approved the new rite is because She practices it in 97% of churches. You are not the Church. You have no authority to declare anything, even if it is true.  You can only do what your conscience tells you.  The worst case scenario is to tell Catholic laity that they are outside the Church and their priests are fake. Either they'll listen and quit the Church entirely as many have (which is on you). Or, they'll dismiss you. The Church has permitted this for a reason, to obtain every last soul possible and reveal the depths of God's mercy for the simplest of his people. There are many in the NO that avoid sin, go to mass, say the rosary and confess their sins. The prelates that foisted this situation on the Church will get their due. Even remotely suggesting nearly all the laity are outside the Church puts you in peril for scandal and division. There is no positive doubt about it, it's your opinion.             
    Oh golly.  If you believe that God approves of the new rites, then you are a V2 Catholic, not a Traditionalist.  Your opinion means nothing here.  Go back to your diocese and obey new-Rome.  

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #73 on: July 31, 2025, 11:29:16 PM »
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  • Right on!  100 percent. 
    You’re not a Trad either.  What are you doing here?  Traditionalism is based on the rejection of V2/new mass, which you obviously accept.  You had better reject such, repent, and become a Trad before you die.  As Fr Wathen said “Inside the conciliar church, there is no salvation.” 

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #74 on: August 01, 2025, 02:58:32 AM »
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  • You have made a lot of statements. Firstly, the Resistance has also accepted Novus Ordo clerics; one of which has a background in child abuse and was officially laicized. He was put on the traditional circuit here in Ireland by Bishop Ballini only three months after his liacization as a Novus Order deacon. It isn't just a SSPX problem; Novus Order priests coming into the Resistance also needs to be monitored and checked out too. Secondly, are you certain that the SSPX are not conditionally ordaining these priests? Word on the ground is that they are, but keeping it very low key. I agree it is a worry - I would certainly be nervous of a Novus Ordo priest with regards to background and training, but I'm curious as to why you are so adamant that they are not conditionally ordaining them. More info?

    Please supply details about the man who Bp Ballini put on the circuit. 

    And if he had only been a deacon in the Novus Ordo, did Ballini ordain him to the priesthood?