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Author Topic: SSPX Fake Priests  (Read 115539 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #160 on: August 03, 2025, 05:39:20 PM »
So, it would appear that putting this thread under Anonymous was a mistake ... since the SSPX trolls have come out full force spreading a bunch of baloney.

Intent of this thread was to name the names, and then possibly post pictures, or else I would go find and post pictures.

If you have no problems with the Bogus Ordo Rite of Episcopal Consecration and Ordination to the Priesthood, by all means you can ignore the information and carry on.  Yet those who recognize that there's clearly ample positive doubt created by the Conciliar butchering of the Sacramental Rites (something which toward the end Archbishop Lefebvre himself clearly affirmed) ... they have a right to know who these (potential) imposters are.

That's why the picture was apt, as it does depict a Novus Ordo priest ... wearing a mask, with the mask here being a double metaphor for how we have Conciliar Priests out there masquerading as Traditional Priests ... and quite possibly simulating the Sacraments.

No, there's no "mortal sin" in questioning the validity of priests when you have solid positive reason to do so, namely, that they were ordained in a Rite that has clearly established positive doubt.  Again, if you don't believe that, or, rather, have convinced yourself otherwise ... run along and you needn't look.  As for the rest of us, when many sincere, intelligent, well educated Catholics in good faith, bishops and priests among them, have come to the conclusion that there does indeed exist positive doubt ... we have a right to know who these are.

Ordination, who a priest was ordained by and the Rite that was used are all a matter of public record, and answers must be given ... except of course in rare situations such as clandestine priests behind the Iron Curtain who would otherwise risk execution.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #161 on: August 03, 2025, 05:49:00 PM »
As stated, calling them fake priests is hyperbole, but it's necessary hyperbole ... since beating around the bush will exert no pressure whatsoever on the neo-SSPX, just like the mealy-mouthed "dubia", aka "uncertainties", "hesitations", or "doubts" did absolutely nothing, and minimized the open and abject heresy in Bergoglio's teaching.

We can add the mental reservation to Fake of, "(for all practical intents and purposes other than in danger of death when you have no other options) Fake", so feel free to insert that mentally.

We can no more prove that these priests are invalid than that SSPX can prove that they are beyond any reasonable postiive doubt ... and yet the burden of proof is on them, a burden they simply cannot meet, lacking the requisite authority to do so, and yet despite that they insist that they're undboubtedly valid and then impose them on the consciences of the faithful, possibly subjecting them to invalid Sacraments.  Those on the contrary side of the issue need only to establish positive doubt, and the positive doubt is absolutely clear -- therefore (for all intents and purposes) fake priests.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #162 on: August 03, 2025, 06:04:54 PM »
*  An invalid priest = a fake priest.
*  Doubtful priests must be treated as invalid, per canon law.
*  The new rites are doubtful, so new rite priests are doubtful.
*  Thus, new rite priests are doubtful and fake.


*  To fix the situation, The Church created 'conditional' rites, for doubtful cases.
*  The new-sspx sometimes uses these, sometimes doesn't.
*  Ordinations and Episcopal consecrations are public events, and the laity have a right to know.  Sacraments aren't secret.
*  The new-sspx is lacking in transparency.
*  The new-sspx is wrong for not following canon law.

Very well summarized right here ^^^

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #163 on: August 03, 2025, 06:22:02 PM »
Here's another way to look at it.

Even IF I were to follow the argument and personally conclude that the New Orders are valid, I would nevertheless refuse to impose that judgement of mine on the consciences of others.  I would realize that many sincere, intelligent (and intellectual), well educated, and orthodox Catholics, including not a few bishops and priests have concluded that there remains a positive doubt, and therefore that OBJECTIVELY the status quaestionis would have the Orders laboring under positive

Bishop Williamson actually held this view.  He personally stated that he felt the Rites were valid, but when asked about why he performed conditional Ordinations, he made a very similar statement, that others might legitimately come to a different conclusions, and that for the peace of their consciences (i.e. so as not to impose his own conscience on those of others), he performed conditional ordinations.

So, it takes a certain amount of hubris to impose your own opinion on the consciences of others ... in both directions.  SSPV on the contrary effectively excommunicate those who assist at Masses of +Thuc line bishops.  NOBODY OUT HERE has the authority to make such impositions ... unless of course you believe that the Conciliar Popes are undoubtedly legitimate.  That's actually the one argument the SSPX COULD in fact use, but that would entail appealing to the disciplinary infallibility of the Church, something they've battled against for decades now, and it would undermine many of their other positions, so they're caught in a Catch-22, but then of course there are many prudent, learned, well educated Catholic faithful, bishops and priests who likewise doubt the legitimacy of the V2 papal claimants.

Without the authority of the Holy See, it's just the SSPX posturing again as if they can exact an obedience greater than that which would be owed to the Vicar of Christ, that we must submit to their positions on all matters and those who do not do so are pround, disobedient, yada yada yada ... the same things that the Conciliars have long used to attack Traditional Catholics in general.  I'm not sure how they take make those assertions with a straight face.

Current Trad clergy can simply opine, make an informed, educated statement of opinion.  It's legitimate for a priest to conclude, "I think the +Thuc line bishops are doubtful".  Fair enough.  Nobody can condemn his opinion either.  But then if someone disagrees, he has absolutely no authority to impose his own opinion on them either.

If I were a priest hearing confessions, I would opine against NFP, explaining why I feel that Pius XII got that one wrong ... but I would not impose that upon the faithful, i.e. by denying them absolution if they disagreed and considered the practice to be licit.

That's the difference between opining (which they're free to do as anyone else) and imposing their opinion.

SSPX are doing the latter, and of course they're not alone among Traditional clergy, SSPV being the worst on the other side.

Änσnymσus

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Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #164 on: August 03, 2025, 06:45:54 PM »