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Author Topic: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?  (Read 4451 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2022, 10:06:40 AM »
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  • Why don't you name the mass location and see if other mass-goers there can corroborate your claim?
    No need.  I know what I saw.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #16 on: July 04, 2022, 10:07:49 AM »
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  • I have never seem this happen.

    My guess would be that the "boss" altar boy got confused because the Deacon and Subdeacon (correctly) did not kneel for the confiteor, and the rest of the boys just followed him.

    High Masses are not that common, so it is understandable if a few mistakes like this happen.
    That is what I thought at first, but then noticed who was head altar server, and a mistake is unlikely.  No kneeling, no bowing.  Yes breast striking.


    Offline moneil

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #17 on: July 04, 2022, 10:52:31 AM »
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  • From the St. Joseph Daily Missal, published in 1950 by the Catholic Book Publishing Company, New York

    Quote
    High and Low Mass

    From the viewpoint of external ceremony, Masses are called Solemn, High and Low.  Solemn Mass is a sung Mass in which the celebrating priest is assisted by a deacon, sub deacon, acolytes and a choir.  Historically, this is the normal service for the Holy Sacrifice.  Low Mass is an abridgement of Solemn Mass in which the celebrating priest himself performs the duties of the deacon and sub deacon.  He is assisted by at least one server who takes the place of the acolytes and choir.  Everything is recited in a speaking tone.  Low Mass developed gradually during the early Middle Ages and was a practical solution to the difficulty of securing a deacon, sub deacon, and choir for every celebration.  Today Low Mass is defacto the usual service.  High Mass (Missa Cantata) is really a Low Mass with some parts sung for greater solemnity.  These three types of Masses are different only in external solemnity.

    As Ladislaus has written, the Missa Cantata (Sung Mass) is a Low Mass sung rather than recited, and incense is not used.  The Solemn Mass had become nearly extinct at the parish level because the diaconate and minor orders no longer existed outside of seminaries and monasteries, and usually there would not be enough additional priests to fill in these roles.  Even in large parishes with multiple priests I imagine that it was expected that extra priests be hearing confessions rather than being at the altar.  In my understanding (I would like to research it further, my copy of Fortescue is loaned out at the moment) sometime in the early 20th century permission was granted, under certain conditions, to use incense at a Missa Cantata (Sung Mass) and this is what became known as the High Mass.




    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #18 on: July 04, 2022, 10:55:08 AM »
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  • No need.  I know what I saw.
    Then why are you asking the question here if you are very sure of what you saw?:facepalm:

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #19 on: July 04, 2022, 10:56:42 AM »
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  • From the St. Joseph Daily Missal, published in 1950 by the Catholic Book Publishing Company, New York

    As Ladislaus has written, the Missa Cantata (Sung Mass) is a Low Mass sung rather than recited, and incense is not used.  The Solemn Mass had become nearly extinct at the parish level because the diaconate and minor orders no longer existed outside of seminaries and monasteries, and usually there would not be enough additional priests to fill in these roles.  Even in large parishes with multiple priests I imagine that it was expected that extra priests be hearing confessions rather than being at the altar.  In my understanding (I would like to research it further, my copy of Fortescue is loaned out at the moment) sometime in the early 20th century permission was granted, under certain conditions, to use incense at a Missa Cantata (Sung Mass) and this is what became known as the High Mass.
    Thank you.  I don’t see how that relates.
    Also, I know the difference between high and low mass. 
    Just wondered if anyone else had seen such at their mass.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #20 on: July 04, 2022, 10:58:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Änσnymσus 7/4/2022, 10:55:08 AM
    Then why are you asking the question here if you are very sure of what you saw?:facepalm:
    My question was pretty clear, I thought:
    "Anyone else notice this?"  :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::smirk:::)

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #21 on: July 04, 2022, 11:08:11 AM »
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  • Thank you.  I don’t see how that relates.
    Also, I know the difference between high and low mass.
    Just wondered if anyone else had seen such at their mass.
    I posted the information from the St. Joseph Missal because there seemed to be some confusion about the difference between a Solemn Mass (with deacon and sub-deacon) and a Sung or High Mass.  Also, one responder seemed to inquire as to what a High Mass was, as they placed a "?" after the phrase.  So, that's how it relates.

    It would appear from the responses so far that NO ONE else has seen what you say you saw.  Also, as there are 15 anonymous responders, there is no way for any of the rest of us (the non-anonymous, if you will) to know who is the OP and who isn't.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #22 on: July 04, 2022, 11:40:29 AM »
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  • My question was pretty clear, I thought:
    "Anyone else notice this?"  :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::smirk:::)
    How would people notice if you refuse to name the mass location?


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #23 on: July 04, 2022, 11:48:16 AM »
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  • I'm out.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #24 on: July 04, 2022, 02:19:44 PM »
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  • My two teenage sons reminded me that all kneel except for priest during the confiteor. Sspx mission.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #25 on: July 04, 2022, 03:35:12 PM »
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  • If that were the worst thing I ever saw at any Mass, I wouldn't be here.


    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #26 on: July 04, 2022, 04:11:33 PM »
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  • From the St. Joseph Daily Missal, published in 1950 by the Catholic Book Publishing Company, New York

    As Ladislaus has written, the Missa Cantata (Sung Mass) is a Low Mass sung rather than recited, and incense is not used.  The Solemn Mass had become nearly extinct at the parish level because the diaconate and minor orders no longer existed outside of seminaries and monasteries, and usually there would not be enough additional priests to fill in these roles.  Even in large parishes with multiple priests I imagine that it was expected that extra priests be hearing confessions rather than being at the altar.  In my understanding (I would like to research it further, my copy of Fortescue is loaned out at the moment) sometime in the early 20th century permission was granted, under certain conditions, to use incense at a Missa Cantata (Sung Mass) and this is what became known as the High Mass.
    I've never thought of the Missa Cantata as basically a sung Low Mass but it makes a lot of sense in hindsight.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #27 on: July 11, 2022, 10:44:13 AM »
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  • The anonymous original poster has seemed very disappointed that more were not responding to his query, though with 19 anonymous responders (out of 26 total) it is not possible to know which of those may have been from the OP.

    The OP did specifically ask about the SSPX experience, and I've never been to a SSPX chapel, the closest one to me being 150 miles away in Post Falls, Idaho.  Still, I replied about my experience at the Spokane Diocese parish of Mary Queen of Heaven in Sprague, Washington, which has a High Mass (sung with Asperges Rite and incense) every Sunday at 10:30 AM ... the altar servers and congregation all kneel for the Confiteor.  Yesterday I attended the second Sunday of every month High Mass in Walla Walla, Washington.  It is normally at 2:00 PM at St. Patrick's parish but yesterday was at noon at St. Francis of Assisi parish.  There were ten altar servers who, together with the congregation, ALL kneeled for the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and Confiteor and kneeled at every other time prescribed by the rubrics (in my layperson's understanding of the rubrics and experience as a pre VII altar server way back when).

    The first week of August I'll be in New Orleans for a meeting and looked to see where I might go to Mass that Sunday.  The closest Catholic Church appears to be St. Patrick's, an easily walkable 1/2 mile, though I'm not sure what that may be like with the southern August humidity ... I'm used to the dry heat of the eastern Washington desert.  There is a public transit connection I may take advantage of.  St. Patrick's has a 1962 Missal Mass at 9:15 AM.  For the benefit of the OP I'll be happy to report back as to the posture of the altar servers during the Confiteor.


    Offline moneil

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #28 on: July 11, 2022, 10:50:50 AM »
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  • I'm nearly positive I checked the "not anonymous" box (IMHO it should be the other way around, one has to check the box to be anonymous), but anyways, the above post was from moneil.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Sspx altar boys don't kneel for the confeitor anymore?
    « Reply #29 on: July 11, 2022, 10:54:43 AM »
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  • The anonymous original poster has seemed very disappointed that more were not responding to his query, though with 19 anonymous responders (out of 26 total) it is not possible to know which of those may have been from the OP.

    The OP did specifically ask about the SSPX experience, and I've never been to a SSPX chapel, the closest one to me being 150 miles away in Post Falls, Idaho.  Still, I replied about my experience at the Spokane Diocese parish of Mary Queen of Heaven in Sprague, Washington, which has a High Mass (sung with Asperges Rite and incense) every Sunday at 10:30 AM ... the altar servers and congregation all kneel for the Confiteor.  Yesterday I attended the second Sunday of every month High Mass in Walla Walla, Washington.  It is normally at 2:00 PM at St. Patrick's parish but yesterday was at noon at St. Francis of Assisi parish.  There were ten altar servers who, together with the congregation, ALL kneeled for the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and Confiteor and kneeled at every other time prescribed by the rubrics (in my layperson's understanding of the rubrics and experience as a pre VII altar server way back when).

    The first week of August I'll be in New Orleans for a meeting and looked to see where I might go to Mass that Sunday.  The closest Catholic Church appears to be St. Patrick's, an easily walkable 1/2 mile, though I'm not sure what that may be like with the southern August humidity ... I'm used to the dry heat of the eastern Washington desert.  There is a public transit connection I may take advantage of.  St. Patrick's has a 1962 Missal Mass at 9:15 AM.  For the benefit of the OP I'll be happy to report back as to the posture of the altar servers during the Confiteor.
    Op here.
    Thank you.
    Went to a different chapel yesterday for mass.  They did it correctly.