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Poll

Do you wear sleeves above the elbow? Do you let your kids wear sleeves above the elbow?

Yes
33 (75%)
No
11 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Author Topic: Sleeves Above the Elbow  (Read 22571 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Sleeves Above the Elbow
« Reply #160 on: April 03, 2026, 07:37:51 AM »
And the shirt should be tucked in for crying out loud!

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Sleeves Above the Elbow
« Reply #161 on: April 03, 2026, 08:43:59 AM »
To elaborate: The Natural Law cannot have dispensations. Church Law can.
Short sleeves are not some kind of dispensation though.  They aren’t contrary to the natural law.  Those saying they are, are puritanical.  

The church even dispenses with cassocks for older priests, who can wear black shirts/pants.  I’ve seen pictures of pre-V2 priests wearing short sleeved black shirts.  Is it ideal?  No.  Is it gravely sinful?  No. 


Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Sleeves Above the Elbow
« Reply #162 on: April 03, 2026, 08:55:14 AM »
You keep skimming over the fact that YOU are attacking the moral standards of the church by pretending that the authority who eased the guidelines for shirt length did not have the authority because you believe him to be less pious than you.  I think they call that gaslighting to ignore the facts and keep on with your relentless and aggressive insistence.

 You cannot bind someone to your own moral standards, when that someone is committing no sin according to the laws of the church. Is your husband aware of your posting habits online?  Are you a dogmatic sedevacantist?
Yes, these people are pitting one pope vs another, one bishop vs another and arguing as if they are allowed to determine what is right.  The church determines what is right and allowed.  They are acting like the Pharisees who condemned Christ for pulling out his ox from the pit on the sabbath.  No common sense.  Just extreme rule following.  

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Sleeves Above the Elbow
« Reply #163 on: April 03, 2026, 09:21:26 AM »
Yes, these people are pitting one pope vs another, one bishop vs another and arguing as if they are allowed to determine what is right.  The church determines what is right and allowed.  They are acting like the Pharisees who condemned Christ for pulling out his ox from the pit on the sabbath.  No common sense.  Just extreme rule following.  
Well, there's nothing wrong with extreme rule following as long as it's not too great of an inconvenience. 

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Sleeves Above the Elbow
« Reply #164 on: April 03, 2026, 09:22:56 AM »
That's not a fair comparison, because modesty pertains to the Natural Law. Fasting pertains to Church Law.

I view it as Providential that more dense food is allowed than before, because with the Industrial Revolution and modern technologies, soils have become so depleted that food does not nourish as it used to.

If you speak to people who grew up on wholesome farms with mineral-dense soils, they will tell you that vegetables can be quite filling, while mainstream grocery store vegetables do not come close to being satiating.

As a result, my point is that the amount of discipline or self-denial it takes to fast today as opposed to back then is probably not much different.

Not true.  Fasting pertains to Divine Law, because Christ ordered us all to "do penance, or ye shall likewise perish."

True, some fasting was created by the Church but...such days/practices are a continuation of the OLD LAW so, really, these days originated in the Old Testament (i.e. From God).  The days/times have changed from the Old Testament to the New, but the idea that there were many/many days of fasting was not *created* by the Church.  It was created by God.

The lenten fast comes from Scripture and is therefore also Apostolic, not a simple rule that the Church created.  Now the DETAILS of the fast were not written in stone by Christ, nor the Apostles, but the spirit of lent being a time of penance is absolute and cannot be changed.  Thus, over the centuries, the Church has changed the DETAILS of the lent, but the essence remains.

It is also of Apostolic origin that we have to abstain from meat on all fridays, out of love for Jesus Crucified.  Even the V2 church cannot change this law, because it's Apostolic (i.e. from Christ).  Even the V2 church still admits that the idea of penance remains on Friday, and if one eats meat, a substitute penance must be done.  

Here's a list of other dispensations (post V2) that I wonder if our local puritans also follow:
1.  Do they fast on vigils of feast days?  That used to be the norm, but now is gone.
2.  Do they eat meat on the friday after Thanksgiving?  That was just a local dispensation for the USA.  Everywhere else, that friday is meatless.
3.  Do they abstain from servile work on the octaves (8 days) of Christmas, Easter, Pentecost, etc?  Used to be a mortal sin to work during these octaves.
4.  etc, etc.