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Author Topic: Siri-ite priest...  (Read 2839 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Siri-ite priest...
« on: December 22, 2014, 05:56:20 PM »
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  • Who is the priest?...


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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #1 on: December 22, 2014, 06:03:53 PM »
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  • It says you can receive the sacrament of Confirmation which is usually done by a Bishop. So I guess they have a Bishop, though sometimes a priest can also confirm.


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    • Guest
    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #2 on: December 22, 2014, 07:01:00 PM »
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    It says you can receive the sacrament of Confirmation which is usually done by a Bishop. So I guess they have a Bishop, though sometimes a priest can also confirm.


    Yes, I wonder.

    Also wonder why they are so secretive!

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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #3 on: December 23, 2014, 11:56:00 AM »
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  • Wait and see.

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    • Guest
    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 12:33:31 PM »
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    Quote from: Guest
    It says you can receive the sacrament of Confirmation which is usually done by a Bishop. So I guess they have a Bishop, though sometimes a priest can also confirm.


    Yes, I wonder.

    Also wonder why they are so secretive!


    Because they sound like another bunch of nut cases.

    Here they are thinking they're the remnant when the whole time CMRI already claimed that distinction. They'll both end up being mighty surprised.


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    • Guest
    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #5 on: December 23, 2014, 05:44:10 PM »
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    Quote from: Guest
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    It says you can receive the sacrament of Confirmation which is usually done by a Bishop. So I guess they have a Bishop, though sometimes a priest can also confirm.


    Yes, I wonder.

    Also wonder why they are so secretive!


    Because they sound like another bunch of nut cases.

    Here they are thinking they're the remnant when the whole time CMRI already claimed that distinction. They'll both end up being mighty surprised.


    CMRI do not claim that.

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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #6 on: December 24, 2014, 03:43:49 AM »
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    Who is the priest?...


    Fr Khoat?

    Offline AJNC

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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #7 on: December 24, 2014, 10:18:04 PM »
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  • I was sent this recently by a fellow Trad. No links were provided but I reckon its from the New Liturgical Movement:
    www.newliturgicalmovement.org
    --------------------------------------------------------------------  

     
    Wednesday, February 11, 2009
    Cardinal Siri and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
    by Shawn Tribe
    Recent events surrounding the Society of St. Pius X have brought forward some considerations of the general history of the concilar and post-concilar era, but more particularly that history as it relates to the SSPX and the person of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre himself. One such consideration recently touched upon the relationship of Guiseppe Cardinal Siri, the famed Archbishop of Genoa, and Lefebvre.

    Now the person of Siri has often been one of interest, and his own efforts to effect the interpretation of the Council in the light of continuity is something that might find some renewed interest in our own day, particularly in the light of the "Benedictine" project of re-asserting this proper hermeneutic and implementation of the Conciliar decrees. (Those who would like to read more specifics on Siri's activities in relation to the sacred liturgy, may wish to re-review a piece written by Fr. Uwe Michael Lang in L'Osservatore Romano this past Autumn, and which was published in English in an NLM translation: Giuseppe Cardinal Siri: The Splendour of Liturgical Ceremonial and its Relationship to the Faith)

    It was the combination of these angles that suggested to me there may be some interest in recent article which discussed Siri's working relationship with Lefebvre during the conciliar and post-conciliar period, inclusive of his attempts to bring some rapproachment between Lefebvre and the Holy See.

    The account was written in Italian by Gianteo Bordero for Ragionpolitica and might provide some interesting historical context to the situation presently being addressed in Rome.

    I should note that the history of this relationship is not something which I personally have a great deal of knowledge of. What research I have been able to pursue confirms certain details raised in this piece, but if anyone more familiar with this history wishes to make note of any caveats, or feels there is any misrepresentation of the facts in the article, please do note them.

    Here it is in an NLM translation:
    How Cardinal Siri tried to Avoid the Schism of Lefebvre

    by Gianteo Bordero

    A bold and courageous attempt, driven by a truly Catholic spirit, and aimed at preserving the unity of the Church. This was what Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, Archbishop of Genoa from 1946 to 1987, decided to take with Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre before the latter was subject to latae sententiae excommunication, following the ordination of four bishops consecrated without the necessary authorization of the Pope in 1988.

    The relationship between the Siri and Lefebvre began during the years of Vatican II, when around the Archbishop of the capital of Liguria, the then President of CEI [NLM: the Italian Episcopal Conference], there gathered a significant group of members of the episcopate who were against the twisting of the Council into an assembly for a radical break with the tradition of the Church. On the evening of October 22, 1963, in the midst of debate about the conciliar docuмents on the Church (which caused the resounding statement of the position of Pope Paul VI in the Nota Praevia of 16 November 1964 on the meaning of the word 'collegiality') the two met at the first meeting of what would later become the Coetus Internationalis Patrum, a group that originally collected thirty Fathers' worried and dissatisfied with the work on the Council floor" (Benny Lai, Il Papa non eletto, Laterza 1993), coordinated by the Brazilian Bishop Gerardo de Proença Sigaud and by the same Archbishop Lefebvre.

    In the months immediately following, during a break of the Council deliberations, Lefebvre decided to send to Genoa, Father Christian Charlot, then a seminarian and his aide, to meet with Cardinal Siri and suggest the creation of an international seminary in which young men destined for the priesthood could receive training in harmony with the Catholic tradition, in opposition to the progressive drift of much theology. Charlot, who later became a priest of the Fraternity of Mary and then a trusted collaborator of Siri, was interviewed by Father Raymond Spiazzi in the book “Cardinal Giuseppe Siri” (Edizioni Studio Domenicano, 1990): "On the matter of the seminary, he [Siri] said: 'It is an excellent thing, it must be well organized, but always in the spirit of the Church, in obedience". About the Coetus Internationalis Patrum: "Siri said it should our meetings should not destroy what the Church has established. He did not want a union of the Fathers of the Council, irrespective of role, to be a pressure group. If the Church had wanted him as a Cardinal, there was a reason; Cardinals must have one eye on the universal Church and to help the Pope in this."

    [...]

    It was precisely because of his love for the Catholic Church and its unity that Cardinal Siri, in the years leading to the excommunication, tried in every way to prevent what already seemed like a possible, painful schism within the Church. With Father Charlot, who meanwhile had become part of the "Fraternity of the Blessed Virgin Mary," [Siri] replied positively to the invitation of Archbishop Lefebvre for his collaboration with the seminary. Charlot recalls: 'We said yes, provided they would accept our spirit: to enter positively into a mystical vision of the Church, learn the conciliar reforms and try to enliven them with the spirit of the eternal Church. Lefebvre was not closed [to this].

    [...]

    [T]he efforts of the Genoese Cardinal to repair relations between Rome and Ecône remained alive and were greatest in subsequent years, after the suspension a divinis of Monsignor Lefebvre which occurred in 1976 due to the ordination of priests despite the prohibition imposed by the Vatican. Siri was very active on this subject in 1977-1978. In the last months of that year, after some second thoughts of Lefebvre and public words of appreciation from Lefebvre for the Cardinal during the second conclave of that year, [Siri] asked him to Genoa, proposing a plan of agreement: “full submission to the authority of the Pope and also full adhesion to the norms of the Council. The only request of Lefebvre concerned permission to celebrate Mass in Latin according to the rite of St. Pius V.” (B. Lai , Il Papa non eletto)

    The cardinal was received in audience by Pope John Paul II on 13 November 1978 and then submitted to the pope the draft agreement that Lefebvre seemed willing to accept. Pope Wojtyla gave his consent and he decided to receive the founder of St. Pius X in the Vatican on November 18.

    Siri advised John Paul II to inform of Lefebvre’s visit only, in person, Cardinal Franjo Seper, president of the Holy Office. And he suggested publishing only after the fact a brief report in L'Osservatore Romano which was to announce that the monsignor had "settled his difficulties with the Holy See." But something did not go well, and after the meeting between the Pope and Lefebvre there was no announcement of the peace made between the Holy See and the Fraternity of St. Pius X.

    [...]

    Thus the attempt of Siri failed. If it had been successful, almost certainly the final break of 1988 would not have taken place, culminating with the excommunication and schism. On June 22 of that year, when Lefebvre announced his intention to ordain four bishops, the Genoese cardinal wrote to Lefebvre: "Monsignor, I beseech you on my knees not to break from the Church! You have been an apostle, a bishop, you must remain in your place. At our age we are at the door of eternity. Think! I am always waiting for you, here in the Church and later in Paradise ." It was yet another painful testimony of what was essential for Siri: love for the Church and unity of its members first of all.


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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #8 on: December 25, 2014, 07:36:39 AM »
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    Picture of V2 Modernist wanna be rock star and "inside reporter" Gianteo Bordero

    Quote from: AJNC
    The account was written in Italian by Gianteo Bordero for Ragionpolitica ...


    Gianteo Bordero born in 1976, a Novus Ordoian with a pervert agenda: he promotes Blessed Montini, "Pope" Francis, the charismatic (in the Steubenville sense) "Cardinal" Arinze. And promotes himself as an electric bass player for a rock'n roll/pop band in Italy.

    Quote from: AJNC
    I should note that the history of this relationship is not something which I personally have a great deal of knowledge of. What research I have been able to pursue confirms certain details raised in this piece, but if anyone more familiar with this history wishes to make note of any caveats, or feels there is any misrepresentation of the facts in the article, please do note them.


    A skilled "Siri researcher" and professional linguist on her most recent trip to Genoa, Italy met with people mentioned in your post. She also interviewed a relative of Cardinal Siri, who informed her that Cardinal Siri came to the conclusion that Lefebvre was a Freemason (Siri's relative was using animated gestures, the Italians are noted for, to stress this point of Lefebvre).

    One must always realize that the occult Novus Order utilized their most powerful means and agents to control all Siri did; or published "himself". The media never reported his creating of Cardinals and Bishops shortly before he died on May 2, 1989. Nor did they report his well-informed conclusion about Lefebvre. How could the schism of Roncalli from the left be ended quicker (by the prisoner pope) by yet another schism, from the "right"?


    Thanks for this which I will share with the Trad who sent me the original article by Shawn Tribe of the New Liturgical Movement.

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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #9 on: December 25, 2014, 07:38:27 AM »
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    Picture of V2 Modernist wanna be rock star and "inside reporter" Gianteo Bordero

    Quote from: AJNC
    The account was written in Italian by Gianteo Bordero for Ragionpolitica ...


    Gianteo Bordero born in 1976, a Novus Ordoian with a pervert agenda: he promotes Blessed Montini, "Pope" Francis, the charismatic (in the Steubenville sense) "Cardinal" Arinze. And promotes himself as an electric bass player for a rock'n roll/pop band in Italy.

    Quote from: AJNC
    I should note that the history of this relationship is not something which I personally have a great deal of knowledge of. What research I have been able to pursue confirms certain details raised in this piece, but if anyone more familiar with this history wishes to make note of any caveats, or feels there is any misrepresentation of the facts in the article, please do note them.


    A skilled "Siri researcher" and professional linguist on her most recent trip to Genoa, Italy met with people mentioned in your post. She also interviewed a relative of Cardinal Siri, who informed her that Cardinal Siri came to the conclusion that Lefebvre was a Freemason (Siri's relative was using animated gestures, the Italians are noted for, to stress this point of Lefebvre).

    One must always realize that the occult Novus Order utilized their most powerful means and agents to control all Siri did; or published "himself". The media never reported his creating of Cardinals and Bishops shortly before he died on May 2, 1989. Nor did they report his well-informed conclusion about Lefebvre. How could the schism of Roncalli from the left be ended quicker (by the prisoner pope) by yet another schism, from the "right"?


    duplicated

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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #10 on: December 27, 2014, 07:27:35 AM »
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  • I always felt there was something suspect about Gianteo Bordero's reporting which I've seen reposted many times here.  I find the claim that Siri knew Lefebvre was a mason equally as suspect. For my part I'll offer an Italian article published 10 years ago. A friend of Siri's is interviewed and Lefebvre is mentioned towards the end. The whole interview will need to be read to get the context.

    2006 interview with Peppino Orlando of Genoa, religious writer and long time friend of Cardinal Siri
    "My meeting with Cardinal Siri was at the Citadel, the Pro Civitate of Assisi, where I studied theology for three and a half years, from '58 to '61. Two retreats were dictated to the volunteers by the Cardinal. In this little chapel where we met, Siri was revealed for what he really was: a man of faith, a theologian and man of culture, trying to understand what made a genuine spiritual formation. I was very impressed by these encounters to the point that I asked for an interview with him. The first question he answered, I still remember, it was this. "Your Eminence, I said, what is the key thing that those who want to Christian culture must have?" I figured he would pull out, for example, the Bible. But, he said, ontology, logic and ontology. Without those you cannot possibly go to the Bible, which is the subject of Logos. "Remember, Orlando” - I still remember the words with which he concluded his speech – “that where there is no logic, grace cannot take root." Not surprisingly, modern philosophy, Kant, Hegel and Marx, attacked logic and ontology, indeed, first they attacked the ontology and then the logic.
    "Today you are convinced of the validity of this teaching?"
    Absolutely . I have remained faithful to this speech. For me, philosophy, spirituality and theology must always be together. Indeed, despite the chaos in which at some point I dived, namely participation in Catholic dissent, this was the lifeboat that brought me out of the left.
    "What had Siri observed of the world of the left?”
    "Without doubt, the illogicallness and the lack of sense of being and of reality. That sense of reality, however, the Cardinal possessed as did the president of Confindustria at the time, Angelo Costa, who I am connected by marriage. Economics, yes, but after the economy the ten commandments. In fact, I often wondered why Siri insisted so much on the eighth. Do not bear false witness.
    "Did you get an explanation?"
    Certainly. The cardinal wanted to emphasize the absolute value of truth. Another of those values which formed a kind of thread throughout my life. And this was noticed by my old master of Assisi, which, who, despite my position of leftist dissent of those years, had given orders that I be received in the archbishopric. I remember the discontent of many priests and monsignors, being passed up for an interview with Siri. And I also remember the "grumbles" for example, that His Eminence received more enemies than ever faithful servants of the Church. But anyhow. For me there was always free passage.
    "And what were you talking about in those meetings?"
    The Church, the contentions. My friendship with Siri gave me those counter-poisons that, in the long run, would allow me to get out of the left itself. Just that - and that Siri had well understood - the Church of that time and, unfortunately, which today lacks the pope. The Pope is not only the bishop of Rome, but he who holds the authority of government and education, and that strengthens the faith of his brothers. The Council and Paul VI, however, refused the tiara, and had somehow deprived the pope of the power of jurisdiction. In short, we have moved from the monarchical principle of Peter to collegiality, which is based on opinion only.
    “Siri therefore had perceived the danger of a loss of the infallible authority of the pope?”
    No doubt, but he realized he could not go forward because this matter was not understood even by the traditionalists. It seemed to them that the whole controversy concerned the Latin Mass and the real problem was linked to the eighth commandment, the truth. Once again, the Cardinal was right and, above all, he had seen far away. He understood that in the logic of the left there is no being, no sense of reality, and that the ideology, the Cartesian cogito, is totally subjective."


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #11 on: December 27, 2014, 12:53:19 PM »
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  • The following declassified Docuмent from the U.S. State Department is far more serious
    than if Cardinal Siri was elected Pope or not in the 1958 Conclave.
    It confirms a national Government the United States to interfere with a Conclave to
    elect a successor to Pope Pius XII.
    In lobbying the American Cardinals to convinced the other Cardinals not to elect a
    conservative hardliner and instead a elderly cardinal who has progressive and masonic ideas
    in which JXXIII proved beyond a doubt.  
    I am sure other national Governments had the same plans and saw an opportunity to
    change directions of the Catholic Church. All national Governments of the West had plans
    to merge with the soviet union gradually by increments. They did not want any condemnation
    of Communism and Socialism, because that was the direction politically the West was
    going since the Great Depression and  World War Two.
    I have seen this docuмent posted in other Traditional Catholic Forums, and absolutely has
    seen that this docuмent is far more serious.

    http://CathInfo.com/58-conclave-secret-department-of-state.pdf

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    Siri-ite priest...
    « Reply #12 on: December 27, 2014, 03:01:28 PM »
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  • Couldn't download.

    I think there was always pressure at every conclave to elect this cardinal or that cardinal.

    We had every indication that someone became pope 2 days before Roncalli.

    Not sure how this docuмent could be more serious than a pope getting elected and forced aside to make way for an enemy agent.