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Author Topic: Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?  (Read 4978 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
« on: February 22, 2014, 03:41:42 PM »
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  • Should a boy whose parents never married be allowed to serve at Mass?  Please give docuмentation to substantiate your answer whether it is permissible or not.

    Another question--how are people to act when the father of said illegitimate child and husband of mother are at the same Mass?  Parents were never married so there's no issue there (sorry for the unintended pun).

    Thanks.


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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 04:15:50 PM »
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  • Really I don't think it would matter.


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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 04:49:35 PM »
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  • It makes no difference either way.

    Offline Graham

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 05:20:59 PM »
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  • Regarding the second question, how are people to act, there have to be social consequences for these sins or people will learn to take them less seriously and they'll consequently become more common. I don't know how to apply that to practice however. I would probably just be distant. Or did you mean the question differently?

    Edit: I see I misread the question. I don't have much expertise in socially delicate situations, so I would just avoid bringing up the issue.

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 05:25:16 PM »
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  • Well, I'm certainly not aware of there being any law against it, but it seems to be a tad imprudent, at least generally, considering that such a boy could never become a priest.


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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 05:26:28 PM »
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  • What do you want to do, ostracize the poor kid because of the sins of his parents? Illegitimacy can be an impediment to the priesthood, but in actuality I have never heard of any young man being denied the priesthood for that reason exclusively, or being denied the necessary dispensation. Besides, an altar boy is not a priest. Do you propose questioning their mothers before they are allowed to serve?  

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 05:27:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Graham
    Regarding the second question, how are people to act, there have to be social consequences for these sins or people will learn to take them less seriously and they'll consequently become more common. I don't know how to apply that to practice however. I would probably just be distant. Or did you mean the question differently?


    The child was born during co-habitation many years ago when the mother was a pagan.  That relationship ended and the mother became a Catholic after child was born.  She has since married a Catholic man and the father of said child has also become a Catholic and wants to worship where his son serves.  

    Hope that clarifies.

    FYI--I am a family member so I of course want mercy to be shown.  I'm worried about the boy being rejected by others.

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 05:31:53 PM »
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    Well, I'm certainly not aware of there being any law against it, but it seems to be a tad imprudent, at least generally, considering that such a boy could never become a priest.


    Make him feel horrible and too unclean to serve Mass because of the sin of others  and he might not grow up to be a Catholic either, much less seek dispensation to become a priest.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 05:32:14 PM »
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    What do you want to do, ostracize the poor kid because of the sins of his parents? Illegitimacy can be an impediment to the priesthood, but in actuality I have never heard of any young man being denied the priesthood for that reason exclusively, or being denied the necessary dispensation. Besides, an altar boy is not a priest. Do you propose questioning their mothers before they are allowed to serve?  


    It's not just that illegitimacy "can" be an impediment to the priesthood, it is one.  

    This isn't an issue of inclusivity or exclusivity, and to argue from that viewpoint you'll soon find yourself surrounded by altar girls.  Altar serving is in a certain way, the first step towards being a priest.  Besides the immediate and local purpose of altar serving, it has a legitimate purpose to cultivate interest in the priesthood.  Those who cannot be priests, or could not lawfully be priests probably shouldn't serve mass.  
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 05:35:12 PM »
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    Quote from: Guest
    Well, I'm certainly not aware of there being any law against it, but it seems to be a tad imprudent, at least generally, considering that such a boy could never become a priest.


    Make him feel horrible and too unclean to serve Mass because of the sin of others  and he might not grow up to be a Catholic either, much less seek dispensation to become a priest.


    There are plenty who have never served at the altar and become fervent Catholics.

    And who exactly is he going to get a dispensation from??!


    Änσnymσus

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 05:36:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Graham
    Regarding the second question, how are people to act, there have to be social consequences for these sins or people will learn to take them less seriously and they'll consequently become more common. I don't know how to apply that to practice however. I would probably just be distant. Or did you mean the question differently?


    The child was born during co-habitation many years ago when the mother was a pagan.  That relationship ended and the mother became a Catholic after child was born.  She has since married a Catholic man and the father of said child has also become a Catholic and wants to worship where his son serves.  

    Hope that clarifies.

    FYI--I am a family member so I of course want mercy to be shown.  I'm worried about the boy being rejected by others.


    Rejoice that both parents have (presumably) confessed their sins and received absolution. Also that they wish to attend Mass regularly, and that the boy is being raised to be a good Catholic. For all you know he may receive permission to become a priest someday after all. Or, better yet, he could be a saint. So rejoice in the forgiveness and grace of God! Then mind your own damned business.


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #11 on: February 22, 2014, 05:37:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Quote from: Guest
    What do you want to do, ostracize the poor kid because of the sins of his parents? Illegitimacy can be an impediment to the priesthood, but in actuality I have never heard of any young man being denied the priesthood for that reason exclusively, or being denied the necessary dispensation. Besides, an altar boy is not a priest. Do you propose questioning their mothers before they are allowed to serve?  


    It's not just that illegitimacy "can" be an impediment to the priesthood, it is one.  

    This isn't an issue of inclusivity or exclusivity, and to argue from that viewpoint you'll soon find yourself surrounded by altar girls.  Altar serving is in a certain way, the first step towards being a priest.  Besides the immediate and local purpose of altar serving, it has a legitimate purpose to cultivate interest in the priesthood.  Those who cannot be priests, or could not lawfully be priests probably shouldn't serve mass.  


    But this impediment can be given a dispensation. And, while I've never heard of anyone today being barred from entering the seminary due to this impediment, there is at least one person on this site who has attested to being born illegitmately and then later being accepted into a Trad seminary.

    There's no reason to not allow the boy to serve even if a very real impediment to the priesthood exists.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #12 on: February 22, 2014, 05:52:39 PM »
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    Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Guest
    Well, I'm certainly not aware of there being any law against it, but it seems to be a tad imprudent, at least generally, considering that such a boy could never become a priest.


    Make him feel horrible and too unclean to serve Mass because of the sin of others  and he might not grow up to be a Catholic either, much less seek dispensation to become a priest.


    There are plenty who have never served at the altar and become fervent Catholics.

    And who exactly is he going to get a dispensation from??!



    You miss the point. Telling the kid and his family that he can't serve at Mass because of illegitimacy will most likely end (rightly or wrongly) in hurt feelings; and possibly them leaving in a huff because they are hurt and humiliated. Why risk upsetting such fragile souls if there is no need to? Maybe the boy won't be able to become a priest, but certainly he should be allowed to be an altar boy and build upon his treasury of Catholic faith. Especially if it is not yet known if he  a) has a vocation b) would be eligible for a dispensation. But if you castigate this delicate family that seems to be trying hard to become good Catholics, what good could possibly come from it?

    Also, about how you (the OP) should treat the bio-dad who wants to attend? How are all of the other absolved sinners, including yourself (unless of course you are a saint) treated? With kindness I hope. Treat him likewise.

    Änσnymσus

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #13 on: February 22, 2014, 05:59:29 PM »
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    You miss the point. Telling the kid and his family that he can't serve at Mass because of illegitimacy will most likely end (rightly or wrongly) in hurt feelings; and possibly them leaving in a huff because they are hurt and humiliated. Why risk upsetting such fragile souls if there is no need to? Maybe the boy won't be able to become a priest, but certainly he should be allowed to be an altar boy and build upon his treasury of Catholic faith. Especially if it is not yet known if he  a) has a vocation b) would be eligible for a dispensation. But if you castigate this delicate family that seems to be trying hard to become good Catholics, what good could possibly come from it?

    Also, about how you (the OP) should treat the bio-dad who wants to attend? How are all of the other absolved sinners, including yourself (unless of course you are a saint) treated? With kindness I hope. Treat him likewise.


    I'm the OP.  These people are my family who I love.  I'm not mistreating them.  I'm worried about pharisee trads mistreating them.

    Änσnymσus

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    Should Illegitimate Boys Serve at Mass?
    « Reply #14 on: February 22, 2014, 06:13:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Guest

    You miss the point. Telling the kid and his family that he can't serve at Mass because of illegitimacy will most likely end (rightly or wrongly) in hurt feelings; and possibly them leaving in a huff because they are hurt and humiliated. Why risk upsetting such fragile souls if there is no need to? Maybe the boy won't be able to become a priest, but certainly he should be allowed to be an altar boy and build upon his treasury of Catholic faith. Especially if it is not yet known if he  a) has a vocation b) would be eligible for a dispensation. But if you castigate this delicate family that seems to be trying hard to become good Catholics, what good could possibly come from it?

    Also, about how you (the OP) should treat the bio-dad who wants to attend? How are all of the other absolved sinners, including yourself (unless of course you are a saint) treated? With kindness I hope. Treat him likewise.


    I'm the OP.  These people are my family who I love.  I'm not mistreating them.  I'm worried about pharisee trads mistreating them.


    Sorry- thought you were the Pharisee in question.  :facepalm:
    There sure seem to be alot of them here lately, busy staining for gnats while swallowing camels. My apologies for post #11 as well.