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Author Topic: Seeking information about an independent bishop  (Read 5738 times)

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Anonymous

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Seeking information about an independent bishop
« on: August 19, 2016, 04:27:16 PM »
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  • What do you know about bishop Tom Sebastian of the SSCR?  I have recently learned about him, and would like to know what your experience if any has been with him.  I am getting mixed results from my research.  

    Offline TKGS

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    Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #1 on: August 19, 2016, 06:20:28 PM »
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  • The SSCR?  What is that?


    Anonymous

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    Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 09:00:04 AM »
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  • Never heard of him, but I found this:

    http://www.oratoryoftheimmaculata.org/clergy

    Anonymous

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    Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 09:01:57 AM »
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  • Anonymous

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    Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 02:58:39 PM »
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  • His episcopal line comes from a bishop Duarte-Costa who was excommunicated in the 40s in Brazil:

    http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Costa_Consecrations.html

    Msgr. Carlos Duarte Costa was a retired Brazilian diocesan bishop who in 1945 broke with the Roman Catholic Church to found the "Brazilian Apostolic Catholic Church." From him descend scores of independent bishops.

    In the 1930s Msgr. Costa was the Brazilian bishop most outspoken in defending the poor. In 1937, at the insistence of the dictatorial Getúlio Vargas régime in Brazil, the Vatican forced Msgr. Costa to retire as Bishop of Botucatu.

    Nonetheless, he continued in speaking out on behalf of the poor and, in 1944, was even imprisoned for several months.

    Finally, in 1945, after protesting the Vatican's having assisted several Nazis find refuge in Brazil at the end of World War II, Msgr. Costa broke with Rome and established his own independent church.

    Over the next fifteen years, Msgr Costa, along with the first two bishops he consecrated for his new church, helped form in Latin America several other "National Apostolic Catholic Churches." Ultimately there were such churches throughout the Western Hemishere, from Chile to Canada, and even in The Philippines and Australia.

    Msgr. Duarte Costa acted as (principal or co-) consecrator for several independent bishops, the first in 1945 and the last, shortly before his death, in 1961.

    In the years since his death, however, the few bishops he consecrated have become the source of claimed episcopal orders for a immense number of clergymen (and even women!) saying they are validly consecrated "Catholic" bishops.

    ....11) Harold Norwood
    .........a) John Christopher Simmons
    ..............I) Daniel Kanyiles
    ..............II) Thomas Joseph-Francis Patrick Sebastian
    ..............III) Michael George Charles
    ....12) Austin Randolph Adler
    ....13) Randolph Whitcomb Sly
    ....14) Richard W. Lipka
    ....15) Philip Charles Zampino
    ....16) Frederick G. Fick


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #5 on: August 22, 2016, 07:07:56 PM »
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  • If you see an independent bishop, he's usually Duarte-Costa.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Offline TKGS

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    Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #6 on: August 23, 2016, 06:23:56 AM »
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  • The Duarte line bishops are, at best, doubtful; they are certainly non-Catholic in the same way the Old Catholics are non-Catholic.

    I would stay as far away from Tom Sebastian as I could.

    I would take issue with JezusDeKoning's comment, however.  There are a number of Thuc-line bishops as well.  If a bishop hides the source of his consecration, he is likely Duarte-line, but one should not assume this of any independent bishop.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 07:57:02 PM »
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  • Someone wrote to me today with the following e-mail.


    Quote
    If anyone would like to have information about my Apostolic Succession or ministry, they may contact me directly:

    MsgrSebastian@sscr.org

    I have nothing to hide and while I am "independent" I and my clergy are fully Roman CATHOLIC and hold to no errors or heresy. We are certainly not "Old" Catholic who deny Papal Infallibility, etc.
    [/pre]


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 09:45:19 PM »
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  • "Lord, have mercy".

    Anonymous

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    Re: Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 10:35:59 PM »
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  • When I met him, he was just a simple lay person at Queen of Angeles Church in Newhall California.
    He stopped coming to Mass there and very quickly I heard he was a priest just like that "Presto" next to a few months later we heard he was a Bishop just like that again


    I got the feeling C.M.R.I. wanted nothing to do with him after that and I heard he got himself ordained in a questionable manner without any training.  

    If you are serious about wanting further information contact Fr. Dominic at Queen of Angeles in Newhall, California.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 12:20:55 AM »
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  • I have met Bishop Thomas in person.

    I also attended the conference he had with Father Hesse back in the early 2000s.

    Stay away. He will sue any who expose him.



    Offline verilyCatholic

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    Re: Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #11 on: May 18, 2018, 02:02:44 PM »
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  • To reply anonymous # 4: Wrong you are. Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa was a bad guy, a liberal. If he wasn't a Communist I would be surprised (which from the viewpoint of a true Catholic, is bad). For once, the pre-Vatican II authorities did something right, when they ejected him.
    Regardless of his moral character, though, he had valid holy orders, and the men he consecrated bishop, and assumedly the men they consecrated,  were likely valid as well. I don't consider having problems with the Liberal Pope Pius XII to be necessarily a bad thing. 
    Maybe there's another valid Catholic bishop who doesn't like Vatican II and Modernism (he is reputed to be traditionalist).

    Anonymous

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    Re: Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #12 on: May 18, 2018, 05:26:19 PM »
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  •   
     
      Since Costa consecrated after he had been excommunicated, the consecration was not valid and therefore neither is the lineage.
    This is absolutely INCORRECT and shows a complete LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of Sacramental Theology. 
    If excommunication means that one cannot validly ordain, then how are the Orthodox validly ordained?  
    This also implies a belief in the Cyprianic view of Holy Orders versus the Augustinian.  The Cyprianic view is held by the schismatic East and is NOT the teaching of the Catholic Church. 
    Do not speak of things of which you do not know. 

    Anonymous

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    Re: Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #13 on: May 18, 2018, 08:12:36 PM »
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  • Dear Anonymous #14, I know nothing about Sacramental theology? I think you're getting a little carried away. Please try to be reasonable, but obviously you are in the grips of strong emotion. For some reason you feel extreme hate for me. Are you a Communist? Are you a Conciliar "Novus Ordo" heretic? I don't know why you react to me in that way, but I am not that bad a guy. RCG.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Seeking information about an independent bishop
    « Reply #14 on: May 18, 2018, 08:22:57 PM »
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  • Show me citations, from moral and sacramental theologians, that state an excommunicate bishop cannot validly ordain or consecrate. 

    NOTA BENE!  I explicitly said VALIDLY, not LICITLY. 

     

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