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Traditional Catholic Faith => Anonymous Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 09:33:45 AM

Title: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 09:33:45 AM
I have a question for you people in CathInfo. I go to the SSPX Sanford chapel, and have seen the prior getting worse and worse in his vitriolic sermons complaining about anything that is not working according to his desires and he blames the parishioners for everything, never thinking that if the parishioners are not buying into something it is because the product is not attractive. It is anguishing to see the prior open his mouth, with his every word he sinks deeper and deeper into his hate of the parishioners for not buying his "products". 

Should I give advice to the prior through CathInfo or just let it continue on its path? Keep in mind that we are talking about a person who is very vindictive. 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 09:51:54 AM
What products is he selling that you aren’t buying?
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 10:13:02 AM
What products is he selling that you aren’t buying?
I called them "products" because anything you are trying to convince people of doing for you is like a "product" you are selling.
For example, he wants people to go to his Ignatian Retreats in Sanford, he wants people to go on the parish pilgrimage, people to set up booths at the parish International cooking festival..... He wants people to clean, repair, maintain the property, plant trees, cut down trees...….
Those are activities that are done in St. Mary's which has 5000 parishioners,  not 200 like Sanford. 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 10:22:20 AM
I called them "products" because anything you are trying to convince people of doing for you is like a "product" you are selling.
For example, he wants people to go to his Ignatian Retreats in Sanford, he wants people to go on the parish pilgrimage, people to set up booths at the parish International cooking festival..... He wants people to clean, repair, maintain the property, plant trees, cut down trees...….
Those are activities that are done in St. Mary's which has 5000 parishioners,  not 200 like Sanford.
You are ungrateful. It is because the ungrateful and lazy congregation full of do-nothings that forces the priest to ask in the first place.

It's like this: nobody, or not enough people clean, maintains the chapel, or basically even takes care of the most basic of necessities, so that when the priest is forced to ask for help, you throw a tizzy. This behavior is only too typical of ungrateful people. You must be a democrat.
 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 10:22:30 AM
I called them "products" because anything you are trying to convince people of doing for you is like a "product" you are selling.
For example, he wants people to go to his Ignatian Retreats in Sanford, he wants people to go on the parish pilgrimage, people to set up booths at the parish International cooking festival..... He wants people to clean, repair, maintain the property, plant trees, cut down trees...….
Those are activities that are done in St. Mary's which has 5000 parishioners,  not 200 like Sanford.

He's not taking into account that not everyone is capable of all this due to their duties of state.  I would love to help out more at our church, but simply cannot at this point in my life.  I've known other SSPX priests who also "burned out" their parishioners with excessive activity.  Help inspire them to sanctify themselves, and everything else may (or may not) follow, but the key mission of this priest is to save souls, and sanctify them, not to run a business venture.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 10:31:03 AM
He's not taking into account that not everyone is capable of all this due to their duties of state.  I would love to help out more at our church, but simply cannot at this point in my life.  I've known other SSPX priests who also "burned out" their parishioners with excessive activity.  Help inspire them to sanctify themselves, and everything else may (or may not) follow, but the key mission of this priest is to save souls, and sanctify them, not to run a business venture.
And as the place breaks down and completely deteriorates due to the majority who would love to help out more but simply cannot at this point in their life?

No, we are duty bound to put money in the basket crisis or not, and help out cleaning/funding/etc., due to the crisis. For those who are too inconvenienced, then they are to hire and pay for cleaning crew, lawn care, janitors and etc., it's either that, or get off your lazy butts and get in there and do what needs to be done - when you can. But do not dis the priest, you are the ones forcing him to ask for that which he would never ask for if the parishioners did their duty. As it is, they only show their ingratitude for what they have.

   
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 11:13:42 AM
And as the place breaks down and completely deteriorates due to the majority who would love to help out more but simply cannot at this point in their life?

No, we are duty bound to put money in the basket crisis or not, and help out cleaning/funding/etc., due to the crisis. For those who are too inconvenienced, then they are to hire and pay for cleaning crew, lawn care, janitors and etc., it's either that, or get off your lazy butts and get in there and do what needs to be done - when you can. But do not dis the priest, you are the ones forcing him to ask for that which he would never ask for if the parishioners did their duty. As it is, they only show their ingratitude for what they have.

  

You're a sactimonious, self-righteous hypocrite, the kind Jesus condemned regularly.  I'm sure there are some who could do more to help, while others cannot.  For this size of chapel, there's an excessive amount of activity.  I'm not talking about the required basics, such as cleaning & maintenance, etc.  But the retreats, pilgrimages, and booths.  Not everyone can do all that, especially with such few people at that chapel.  You're not the aforementioned pastor, are you?
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 11:43:30 AM
You're a sactimonious, self-righteous hypocrite, the kind Jesus condemned regularly.  I'm sure there are some who could do more to help, while others cannot.  For this size of chapel, there's an excessive amount of activity.  I'm not talking about the required basics, such as cleaning & maintenance, etc.  But the retreats, pilgrimages, and booths.  Not everyone can do all that, especially with such few people at that chapel.  You're not the aforementioned pastor, are you?
And you'll be without a chapel, then you won't have to listen the priest ask for a thing ever again, apparently, that's what you want.

The thing you really need to do, if it is not too inconvenient for you, and by all means be sure this does not inconvenience you too terribly bad, is come up with a way for them to support the physical and monetary needs of the chapel, without the beneficiaries doing anything, or inconveniencing them too much. Until then, about all you can do is continue whining about the priest asking the beneficiaries to do their duty.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 11:48:37 AM
You are ungrateful. It is because the ungrateful and lazy congregation full of do-nothings that forces the priest to ask in the first place.

It's like this: nobody, or not enough people clean, maintains the chapel, or basically even takes care of the most basic of necessities, so that when the priest is forced to ask for help, you throw a tizzy. This behavior is only too typical of ungrateful people. You must be a democrat.
 
For the record I am the OP and I will now make my second posting in reply to the above quote. 
That posting is the kind of vitriol that I am talking about. No one will want to help anyone that considers people garbage like that posting reveals. 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 12:05:58 PM
For the record I am the OP and I will now make my second posting in reply to the above quote.
That posting is the kind of vitriol that I am talking about. No one will want to help anyone that considers people garbage like that posting reveals.
Yep, ungrateful.

You don't like hearing him ask for that which the people should readily have supplied without being asked. This leaves you with the following choices: 1) leave 2) start helping clean the place and raise funds 3) do nothing but whine and blame the priest because you need to be asked to do your part.

Truth to you is vitriol, same as the priest asking you to do your part. :facepalm:

Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 12:32:55 PM
I have a question for you people in CathInfo. I go to the SSPX Sanford chapel, and have seen the prior getting worse and worse in his vitriolic sermons complaining about anything that is not working according to his desires and he blames the parishioners for everything, never thinking that if the parishioners are not buying into something it is because the product is not attractive. It is anguishing to see the prior open his mouth, with his every word he sinks deeper and deeper into his hate of the parishioners for not buying his "products".

Should I give advice to the prior through CathInfo or just let it continue on its path? Keep in mind that we are talking about a person who is very vindictive.
No, you should give advice to your priest in person, fact-to-face. Be constructive in you criticism, such as suggesting he ask the parishioners which extra-non-essential activity they would like to do. But as for the necessities, like cleaning and maintenance, that you all need to do. Try to encourage each other to do their part. Suggest alternatives, such as chipping in to hire someone for the tougher jobs, or to volunteer hours that are better for your. schedule. Example, "Sorry Father, I cannot make it to work day this Saturday but I can help for 2 hours each 1st Saturday anytime after 2 PM and before 7 PM".
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 01:32:19 PM
For the record I am the OP and I will now make my second posting in reply to the above quote.
That posting is the kind of vitriol that I am talking about. No one will want to help anyone that considers people garbage like that posting reveals.
Snowflake.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 01:58:44 PM
Yes. There's a post complaining about the Sanford FL chapel often. 

If you're in the US, you have the luxury of being near a weekly Mass — something that people not in your shoes may only get once a year if they're lucky.

Offer it to God and suck it up.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 02:50:08 PM

This is the OP making his third posting.

Someone came on here and changed the direction of the OP to a complaint about too much work, but I never complained about too much work. The parishioners  in the Sanford chapel are by far the most generous people I have ever known, the work they’ve done in the last 15 years building that place is mind boggling for such a small congregation. The priory was 2000 square foot  house, and recently they paid well over $600,000 to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory. That’s a 4000 sq ft home (in Florida!) for 6 men! Theirs is no way you could call the parishioners anything but astronomical generous.  The writer has contributed as much as the most generous.

The reason for my posting was to tell the prior that honey attracts more bees than vinegar. All I here every week in sermons is hateful insults to the parishioners. That is not going to get good results.

Here’s an example, the prior was complaining that no one from Sanford has signed up for the retreat, and he called them cowards and lovers of a comfort life in air condition, among other insults. That is what I call vitriol.

Here is what  should have been said instead, very few people from Sanford have signed up for the Ignatian Retreats, please do not wait till the last minute to sign up, as we need to prepare the lodging and food and other preparations. For those of you who do not know what an Ignatian Retreat is, it is this……….. (explain its history, and every detail , like why it is a silent retreat etc. and the reason why it is vital for a take the time off from the world). Explain how they have beautiful retreat houses in Los Gatos California and Ridgefield Connecticut, that of course our facilities in Sanford do not compare, but we have made them available for those that can’t afford the travel expenses. Our meals in Sanford  though are far superior to Los Gatos and Ridgefield!

I hope the prior can see the difference between the two methods and learns to refrain from using vinegar in the future.  
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 03:08:48 PM
Sounds like said prior might be on this thread.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 03:13:00 PM
A retreat is not an easy thing to just sign up for.  You have to take off work, buy a plane ticket and be apart from your family for an entire week.    In this day and age, making daily mass is difficult (if you even have the option of one).  Most people struggle to do the basics - daily rosary and morning/evening prayers.  Many don't have time for spiritual reading or extra devotions, which would be step 2.  Sounds like the priest's efforts are a tad misplaced; a retreat is a luxury.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 04:09:47 PM
Sounds like said prior might be on this thread.
Whoever it is, he proved the vitriol point for the OP. 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 06:28:51 PM
Definitely let it go!  One shouldn't complain unless he is willingly to help with the solution.  Where we used to hear Mass, the choir was terrible.  People complained.  But when the director begged for volunteers, he got none.  It does seem to me a chapel of 200 persons should be able to find people for basics like cleaning, lawn mowing, etc.  If not, it's not right to expect the priest to personally do all the grunt work.  You want a holy priest, right?  One given to prayer and hours before Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.  This is not to say the priest should be a lazy bum and have people waiting on him hand and foot, but his main calling is to priestly duties, not janitorial.  
If people don't sign up for retreats, volunteer for, or attend parish events, there must be a reason other than the fact that the priest is frustrated.  Some of the men of the chapel should meet with him to discuss the reasons for non-participation.  I don't know the Sanford area.  Is a place very expensive and not conducive to people being able hot afford retreats?  Or maybe the distances people come from to hear Mass are prohibitive of events like parish picnics?  Perhaps there are no women living close by who can come and clean on a regular basis?  Men with the same problem?  
Personally, I have not been on a retreat in over a decade and I get to Mass once every six weeks, if so blessed.  My health doesn't allow me to make long road trips or to do heavy cleaning.  I'm on a fixed income and cannot afford airfare much less the cost of the retreat.  Many Catholic families are raising lots of children without the support of extended family or of a surrounding Catholic community life.  These parents have all they can do to keep a roof over their heads, food on the table, and educate their children properly.  For them, a retreat is out of the question.  How many men can take an entire week off from work and how many women can go the whole week without adult help from a husband?
Maybe expense is a problem.  Are chapel events not well matched to the members?  A chapel populated by young families with many children should not count on crowds at a $100 a plate formal dinner and recital, as at an SSPX chapel that shall remain unnamed.  Conversely, well-to-do seniors probably have little interest in attending an outdoor picnic in the park at the ballfield!  
If people don't sign up for the priest's activities, no wonder he's frustrated.  It could also be the sad truth that most who attend there are selfish, wanting to get something out of Mass, but not give.  In which case, if the priest gets upset, one can hardly blame him.  If nothing changes, the people can count upon eventually losing the priest, their Mass, and their Sacraments as punishment for lack of appreciation.  
The people should take time to speak with their priest, and he with them.  Maybe the chapel isn't in a good locale any longer.  Circumstances and social dynamics change.  
Unless the OP is willing to do something other than complain, he should, indeed, let it go!
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 08:34:54 PM
To the OP:

If you "let Sanford go", what is your alternative? Assuming all the complaints the OP has made are 100% accurate, none of them, nor all of them together are a sufficient reason to "let the parish go", unless the OP has an alternative place to go to Mass first. 

I don't live in Florida, but I do know a bit about the locations of Traditional chapels in Florida, and I'm not aware of any others that I would consider acceptable in the Orlando-area ("acceptable" to me is a chapel of the SSPX, Bp. Williamson or other Resistance Bishops/Priests, the SSPV, CSPV, or those affiliated with Bishops Dolan/Sanborn/Neville). Being that traditional churches are not numerous the OP might live a considerable distance from Sanford anyway, and so perhaps is closer to a chapel of one of those other groups, or even to one of the SSPX Missions in Florida served by the other SSPX Priests in Sanford? If you do have another chapel that is close or even one that is farther away but which you don't mind sacrificing time and gas money to drive farther to get to, your complaints would perhaps be sufficient reasons to go to this alternative chapel.

The bottom line though, is that unless you have an alternative chapel to go to, those complaints are not a sufficient reason to give up Sanford and consider yourself dispensed from your Sunday obligation, nor are they sufficient reasons to attend the Novus Ordo.

As far as the complaints themselves, if you truly can't make the retreats, or truly have no time to help with maintenance around the church, don't dwell on Father's criticisms, as they are not directed at you personally (I assume??) but at those parishioners who DO have time to make the retreats but are too lazy to make the effort, and those parishioners that DO have the time and talent to help with projects around the church but don't out of laziness or selfishness. There are people like that in every parish, and I guarantee there are in Sanford as well. 

I have seen it happen before where a larger Traditional parish puts on an activity like a retreat and the majority of attendees are from outside the parish. That has got to be incredibly frustrating and/or embarrassing for the parish Priest that his own parishioners won't take advantage of what's offered them. While there are undoubtedly people like the OP who can't make a retreat or help out with maintenance, there are also undoubtedly others who could do both of these things, and just don't. People tend toward laziness both spiritually and physically (it is one of the 7 Capital Sins after all), and sometimes need a little cajoling from their pastor to get them fervent again.

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 08:53:32 PM
We pray for everyone at Sanford, Florida chapel.  

Certain chores should be done by young people too.  Everyone needs to help out their parish.  Make up a sign up sheet.  Take turns.  

Have fundraisers to fund pilgrimages and retreats especially St Ignatius Silent retreat.  It is great that a priest is encouraging Catholic activities.  

Now more than ever we need to pray for our priests and realize they all have different personalities too.  The chapel in Sanford is beautiful and holy.  The people were kind and friendly.  














Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Nadir on June 10, 2019, 10:32:31 PM
Should I give advice to the prior through CathInfo or just let it continue on its path?
This seems a strange way to go about things!

What do other attendees have to say? Why don't you take the bull by the horns and face the priest like a man? If others agree you could approach him  as a group, choosing the most diplomatic person as front man.
And be thankful you have a Mass to attend. So many of us have no spiritual consolation at all.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: MaterDominici on June 11, 2019, 01:55:05 AM
Here’s an example, the prior was complaining that no one from Sanford has signed up for the retreat, and he called them cowards and lovers of a comfort life in air condition, among other insults. That is what I call vitriol.

Here is what  should have been said instead, very few people from Sanford have signed up for the Ignatian Retreats, please do not wait till the last minute to sign up, as we need to prepare the lodging and food and other preparations. For those of you who do not know what an Ignatian Retreat is, it is this……….. (explain its history, and every detail , like why it is a silent retreat etc. and the reason why it is vital for a take the time off from the world). Explain how they have beautiful retreat houses in Los Gatos California and Ridgefield Connecticut, that of course our facilities in Sanford do not compare, but we have made them available for those that can’t afford the travel expenses. Our meals in Sanford  though are far superior to Los Gatos and Ridgefield!
Constructive criticism shouldn't be taken as pointless complaining.
But, don't post it anonymously online. Go and tell him yourself. If your objective is the same as his -- to get people involved in these activities -- I don't see why he'd not appreciate suggestions.
He'd also probably do well to talk to individuals about what the obstacles are to their participation and see if any of those can be resolved.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 05:05:25 AM
This is the OP making his third posting.

Someone came on here and changed the direction of the OP to a complaint about too much work, but I never complained about too much work. The parishioners  in the Sanford chapel are by far the most generous people I have ever known, the work they’ve done in the last 15 years building that place is mind boggling for such a small congregation. The priory was 2000 square foot  house, and recently they paid well over $600,000 to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory. That’s a 4000 sq ft home (in Florida!) for 6 men! Theirs is no way you could call the parishioners anything but astronomical generous.  The writer has contributed as much as the most generous.

The reason for my posting was to tell the prior that honey attracts more bees than vinegar. All I here every week in sermons is hateful insults to the parishioners. That is not going to get good results.

Here’s an example, the prior was complaining that no one from Sanford has signed up for the retreat, and he called them cowards and lovers of a comfort life in air condition, among other insults. That is what I call vitriol.

Here is what  should have been said instead, very few people from Sanford have signed up for the Ignatian Retreats, please do not wait till the last minute to sign up, as we need to prepare the lodging and food and other preparations. For those of you who do not know what an Ignatian Retreat is, it is this……….. (explain its history, and every detail , like why it is a silent retreat etc. and the reason why it is vital for a take the time off from the world). Explain how they have beautiful retreat houses in Los Gatos California and Ridgefield Connecticut, that of course our facilities in Sanford do not compare, but we have made them available for those that can’t afford the travel expenses. Our meals in Sanford  though are far superior to Los Gatos and Ridgefield!

I hope the prior can see the difference between the two methods and learns to refrain from using vinegar in the future.  
Amazing. How long have you been a trad that his manner of speech offends you? Do you think you all deserve an apology for his manner of speech? Do you think that he should apologize to everyone for encouraging his congregation, his flock, his sheep to do some spiritual exercises? Or should he apologize to everyone for condemning the comforts they enjoy, perhaps at the expense of their souls? Or just apologize for saying what has to be said so clearly - for a priest with a heavy accent. What a meanie!  :heretic:

Here (http://www.sspxflorida.com/en/current-bulletin-schedule) is this past Sunday's sermon where he speaks the truth. Listen at about 1:23:00 to 1:24:00, listen for just this one minute where what he says apparently pierces the souls of some Floridians. You want him to say the same thing only in a nicer way with softer words - so that the message might not get through at all or with out the same force?

It is no wonder that priest says what he says the way he says it, which is already much, much softer than I've heard from other trad priests in the past. If all the congregation is so easily offended or thinks this insults their intelligence, he must be going mad putting up with you all. That's how you *should* view it, try to look at it from his point of view and don't be so  easily offended.  


   
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 05:45:27 AM
Amazing. How long have you been a trad that his manner of speech offends you? Do you think you all deserve an apology for his manner of speech? Do you think that he should apologize to everyone for encouraging his congregation, his flock, his sheep to do some spiritual exercises? Or should he apologize to everyone for condemning the comforts they enjoy, perhaps at the expense of their souls? Or just apologize for saying what has to be said so clearly - for a priest with a heavy accent. What a meanie!  :heretic:

Here (http://www.sspxflorida.com/en/current-bulletin-schedule) is this past Sunday's sermon where he speaks the truth. Listen at about 1:23:00 to 1:24:00, listen for just this one minute where what he says apparently pierces the souls of some Floridians. You want him to say the same thing only in a nicer way with softer words - so that the message might not get through at all or with out the same force?

It is no wonder that priest says what he says the way he says it, which is already much, much softer than I've heard from other trad priests in the past. If all the congregation is so easily offended or thinks this insults their intelligence, he must be going mad putting up with you all. That's how you *should* view it, try to look at it from his point of view and don't be so  easily offended.  


  
I think the priest shows a genuine concern for the souls at his church. He should understand that people, who are used to comforts like air conditioning, have a difficult time adapting when these things aren’t available. I, for one, have a serious problem sleeping when the room temperature is above 70 degrees. He is right however, that we need to withdraw ourselves from such a pampered lifestyle.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 11, 2019, 05:47:10 AM
Amazing. How long have you been a trad that his manner of speech offends you? Do you think you all deserve an apology for his manner of speech? Do you think that he should apologize to everyone for encouraging his congregation, his flock, his sheep to do some spiritual exercises? Or should he apologize to everyone for condemning the comforts they enjoy, perhaps at the expense of their souls? Or just apologize for saying what has to be said so clearly - for a priest with a heavy accent. What a meanie!  :heretic:

Here (http://www.sspxflorida.com/en/current-bulletin-schedule) is this past Sunday's sermon where he speaks the truth. Listen at about 1:23:00 to 1:24:00, listen for just this one minute where what he says apparently pierces the souls of some Floridians. You want him to say the same thing only in a nicer way with softer words - so that the message might not get through at all or with out the same force?

It is no wonder that priest says what he says the way he says it, which is already much, much softer than I've heard from other trad priests in the past. If all the congregation is so easily offended or thinks this insults their intelligence, he must be going mad putting up with you all. That's how you *should* view it, try to look at it from his point of view and don't be so  easily offended.  


  
Forgot to check the box.
I think the priest shows a genuine concern for the souls at his church. He should understand that people, who are used to comforts like air conditioning, have a difficult time adapting when these things aren’t available. I, for one, have a serious problem sleeping when the room temperature is above 70 degrees. He is right however, that we need to withdraw ourselves from such a pampered lifestyle.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 08:30:36 AM
Forgot to check the box.
I think the priest shows a genuine concern for the souls at his church. He should understand that people, who are used to comforts like air conditioning, have a difficult time adapting when these things aren’t available. I, for one, have a serious problem sleeping when the room temperature is above 70 degrees. He is right however, that we need to withdraw ourselves from such a pampered lifestyle.
Wait the priest is complaining about THAT? In Florida of all places?
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 09:05:38 AM

From the OP, my 4th posting
Like I aid before, someone changed the direction of this thread from my intended purpose (to bring to the attention of the prior that he if things are not going according to his desires, that he should not insult the people calling them lazy, cowards, selfish…..) Here is an example, does this make you feel like you are dealing with a Catholic?:


Quote
You are ungrateful. It is because the ungrateful and lazy congregation full of do-nothings that forces the priest to ask in the first place. It's like this: nobody, or not enough people clean, maintains the chapel, or basically even takes care of the most basic of necessities, so that when the priest is forced to ask for help, you throw a tizzy. This behavior is only too typical of ungrateful people. You must be a democrat.


This thread was never about complaining about too much work


Quote
OP said: Someone came on here and changed the direction of the OP to a complaint about too much work, but I never complained about too much work. The parishioners  in the Sanford chapel are by far the most generous people I have ever known, the work they’ve done in the last 15 years building that place is mind boggling for such a small congregation. The priory was 2000 square foot  house, and recently they paid well over $600,000 to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory. That’s a 4000 sq ft home (in Florida!) for 6 men! Theirs is no way you could call the parishioners anything but astronomical generous.  The writer has contributed as much as the most generous.
 
 The reason for my posting was to tell the prior that honey attracts more bees than vinegar. All I here every week in sermons is hateful insults to the parishioners. That is not going to get good results.



Quote
If you "let Sanford go", what is your alternative? Assuming all the complaints the OP has made are 100% accurate, none of them, nor all of them together are a sufficient reason to "let the parish go",


I never said I would leave I said “Should I give advice to the prior through CathInfo or just let it continue on its path?” It’s path is whatever comes of it. 



 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 09:17:34 AM

OP 5th posting




Quote
OP wrote: The parishioners  in the Sanford chapel are by far the most generous people I have ever known, the work they’ve done in the last 15 years building that place is mind boggling for such a small congregation. The priory was 2000 square foot  house, and recently they paid well over $600,000 to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory. That’s a 4000 sq ft home (in Florida!) for 6 men! Theirs is no way you could call the parishioners anything but astronomical generous.  The writer has contributed as much as the most generous.


 


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The complaining poster wrote:  You are ungrateful. It is because the ungrateful and lazy congregation full of do-nothings that forces the priest to ask in the first place. It's like this: nobody, or not enough people clean, maintains the chapel, or basically even takes care of the most basic of necessities, so that when the priest is forced to ask for help, you throw a tizzy. This behavior is only too typical of ungrateful people. You must be a democrat.


Either the person complaining has only been a parishioner a very short time, maybe a few months, or else the person is ___________.

 

What the OP wrote above is a historical fact, that can be verified by observing the aerial photographs in Google through the years.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 09:42:10 AM

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 The reason for my posting was to tell the prior that honey attracts more bees than vinegar. All I here every week in sermons is hateful insults to the parishioners. That is not going to get good results.

Too much honey makes one sick. Once sick, vinegar is needed to purge the innards to make one well. There has been too much honey, especially within the SSPX.
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What you consider vinegar or hateful insults are in reality nothing more then pleadings from the priest trying to get those in his charge to save their souls. 
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Get over it. Go ahead and speak to the priest, but don't be saddened when he offers only more vinegar.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 12:34:58 PM
Too much honey makes one sick. Once sick, vinegar is needed to purge the innards to make one well. There has been too much honey, especially within the SSPX.
Thanks for the contribution Bishop Fellay.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 12:57:53 PM


Quote
OP wrote: The parishioners  in the Sanford chapel are by far the most generous people I have ever known, the work they’ve done in the last 15 years building that place is mind boggling for such a small congregation. The priory was 2000 square foot  house, and recently they paid well over $600,000 to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory. That’s a 4000 sq ft home (in Florida!) for 6 men! Theirs is no way you could call the parishioners anything but astronomical generous.  The writer has contributed as much as the most generous.


Why would 6 men need any help? The parishioners do everything and the prior does not lift a finger (and the six men) and he is complaining?  I wish I had 5 men to help me.

They must be living in the Twilight Zone.
Title: Clerical Construction?/Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: AlligatorDicax on June 11, 2019, 06:19:34 PM

Why would 6 men need any help [to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory]?  The parishioners do everything and the prior does not lift a finger (and the six men) and he is complaining?  I wish I had 5 men to help me.

Readers must be astonished that monasteries could've been built in totally unsettled locales [×] by mere monks--and rebuilt--from stone, using mediæval construction technology:
•  as magnificent and eventually huge as Monte Cassino
•  as challenging as Citeaux [@@@] or Clairvaux [@@@@@]; or
•  an environment as severe as Chartreuse [@@@@] of the Carthusians.

But wait!  There are important lessons to be learned from Florida cracker-houses about construction that can make the summer subtropical climate tolerable.  That can be creatively combined with the modernish concrete-pad technology that's so well-established in Florida.  Not only is concrete-block technology practically universally available, but Florida also has quarries for coquina-rock near St. Augustine (St. Johns Co.), and for more ordinary stone near Ocala (Marion Co.).

Maybe if SSPX is newly determined to indulge in modernistoecumenism’,  they should arrange to have their clergy trained in building construction by Habitat for Humanity".

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Note ×: "totally unsettled locales" meaning locales completely lacking civilized inhabitants, e.g., wood-workers and stone-workers.

Note @: Cassino survives in modern Italy, in inland Lazio (class. Latium), near where an imaginary coastal perpendicular from W.-coastal Gaeta would cross the Liri (River) approx. 1/4 way N.W. across the peninsula.

Note @@: Cluny (est. 910), in Burgundy.

Note @@@: Abb. St. Robert's Citeaux (est. 1098), in Burgundy.

Note @@@@: St. Bruno (of Cologne)'s Chartreuse (Fr. Alps) (est. 1076) of the Carthusians.

Note @@@@@: St. Bernard's Clairvaux (class. clara vallis: "valley of light") (est. 1115), originally the "Valley of Wormwood".
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 07:51:11 PM
Ahhh this particular prior is a nutjob. Well documented on here. Years ago when the Resistance came about, many of the hard liner parishioners were pushed out by the prior. When Fr. Hewko had a Mass by the church it was reported that the prior was driving up and down the streets of the church taking a list of who’s car was the Mass. He even went as far as leaving a creepy voicemail banning an usher from St. Thomas More. The usher has since has returned years later.
 
The prior talks about the comforts others have but the children go to school in portables and have their plays outside while the priests live in a comfortable home with the best wines from Total Wine and home cook meals daily. I guess no one there has culinary skills or can throw things in a crockpot. Fr. Shouldn’t have room talking about people’s comforts when he doesn’t practice what he preaches!
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 07:07:52 AM

From the OP – my final posting
 I’ve been going to the Sanford Florida SSPX chapel for many years now, and have seen the prior getting worse and worse in his vitriolic sermons complaining about anything that is not working in EVERY detail as he wants and he always blames the parishioners for everything, never once thinking that if the parishioners are not buying into something it is because the presentation is not attractive, in fact the presentation is scary, for it appears by his vitriol that the prior has lost it. It is anguishing to see the prior open his mouth from the pulpit every Sunday, with his every word he sinks deeper and deeper into appearing to reveal his real hate of the parishioners for not doing everything he says in EVERY detail. The anguishing is not from guilt for the things he blames the people for, but for watching a man appearing to be losing it from the pulpit. People run away from such persons and will do anything to avoid them.  


In the martial arts once you lose your temper, you have lost it. One can never openly reveal their anger and hate against people like that without appearing to be unbalanced, and to do it from a pulpit every sermon?

The prior needs to open his eyes to the gifts, the reality, of the extraordinary attention he has received all these years! There is not one chapel in the world where a prior gets the physical attention this prior gets: gourmet meals, wines, washing of clothes, cleaning of the living quarters, cars, drivers, a CPA to do the accounting, gardens plantings and maintenance (on 5 acres),  home repairs and maintenance, , $600,000 home addition, a 4000 square foot home for 6 priests, 6 men who do not have to lift a finger to do any of this work,…………. The prior has nothing to go ballistic about, on the contrary, he should be thanking the parishioners from the pulpit every day. Everyone knows this, and that makes his apparent anger and hate of the parishioners even more striking, he is coming off as unbalanced. It is anguishing to watch someone self-destruct like that every Sunday. He needs to get his act together and quick.

“Two men stared out prison bars, one saw mud, the other the stars”.

 

This is my last posting.

God Bless
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 07:17:07 AM

Quote
From the OP – my final posting
 I’ve been going to the Sanford Florida SSPX chapel for many years now, and have seen the prior getting worse and worse in his vitriolic sermons complaining about anything that is not working in EVERY detail as he wants and he always blames the parishioners for everything, never once thinking that if the parishioners are not buying into something it is because the presentation is not attractive,

Snowflake.
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Perhaps your congregation can gather up enough energy so they can petition SSPX for a priest who is a better salesman, one  that makes pretty presentations. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 08:36:53 AM
I think this priest was once the Superior of the then all Africa District and, thanks to his temper, lost it all. 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 12:06:15 PM
Perhaps your congregation can gather up enough energy so they can petition SSPX for a priest who is a better salesman, one  that makes pretty presentations. 
Perhaps if you read and quoted the rest of the posting you might understand that what the OP wrote has nothing to do with making pretty presentations:
"in fact the presentation is scary, for it appears by his vitriol that the prior has lost it. It is anguishing to see the prior open his mouth from the pulpit every Sunday, with his every word he sinks deeper and deeper into appearing to reveal his real hate of the parishioners for not doing everything he says in EVERY detail. The anguishing is not from guilt for the things he blames the people for, but for watching a man appearing to be losing it from the pulpit. People run away from such persons and will do anything to avoid them.
In the martial arts once you lose your temper, you have lost it. One can never openly reveal their anger and hate against people like that without appearing to be unbalanced, and to do it from a pulpit every sermon?
 
 The prior needs to open his eyes to the gifts, the reality, of the extraordinary attention he has received all these years! There is not one chapel in the world where a prior gets the physical attention this prior gets: gourmet meals, wines, washing of clothes, cleaning of the living quarters, cars, drivers, a CPA to do the accounting, gardens plantings and maintenance (on 5 acres),  home repairs and maintenance, , $600,000 home addition, a 4000 square foot home for 6 priests, 6 men who do not have to lift a finger to do any of this work,…………. The prior has nothing to go ballistic about, on the contrary, he should be thanking the parishioners from the pulpit every day. Everyone knows this, and that makes his apparent anger and hate of the parishioners even more striking, he is coming off as unbalanced. It is anguishing to watch someone self-destruct like that every Sunday. He needs to get his act together and quick.
 
 “Two men stared out prison bars, one saw mud, the other the stars”."

Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 12:32:05 PM
Perhaps if you read and quoted the rest of the posting you might understand that what the OP wrote has nothing to do with making pretty presentations:
"in fact the presentation is scary, for it appears by his vitriol that the prior has lost it. It is anguishing to see the prior open his mouth from the pulpit every Sunday, with his every word he sinks deeper and deeper into appearing to reveal his real hate of the parishioners for not doing everything he says in EVERY detail.
From your posts, to you, truth is vitriol. As such, you have it pretty bad there, why suffer the anguish, why not find some place else to go.
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The local NO church are almost guaranteed to have pretty sermons.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
From your posts, to you, truth is vitriol. As such, you have it pretty bad there, why suffer the anguish, why not find some place else to go.
From the writers brief postings it is obvious that he does not have the mental wherewithal to read clear English or else he is in denial.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 03:06:43 PM
From the writers brief postings it is obvious that he does not have the mental wherewithal to read clear English or else he is in denial.
It's plain enough for whoever listens to his sermon (posted earlier), that what you consider vitriol is not vitriol at all to Catholics. Snowflake.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2019, 11:06:47 PM
Some parishoners at St Michael's in Jacksonville, which as of this year voted to join the SSPX almost unanimously, had been scandalized last year by the Sanford parish pilgrimage to the Shrine in St Augustine being held inside the novus ordo church instead of outside on the so called "rustic altar" as it traditionally was. They had voiced their concerns about this during a meeting discussing the property transfer to the Society. The priest representing the SSPX said it was because of the weather and that we shouldnt worry about particles of the host being on the floor because that really only happens in third world countries where hosts are handmade. Well this year on a perfectly clear and mild day the parish pilgrimage was held yet again in the novus ordo church. Jacksonville was only given a 7am Mass so the parishoners would go to the pilgrimage Mass at the novus ordo church where they were greeted by SSPX Sanford bulletins stacked underneath a divine mercy image next to divine mercy pamphlets and were led in song by a man standing at the front of the church waving his arms around. 

Another odd thing that happened at Sanford at the low Mass on Passion Sunday was the prior literally turning around and stopping the Mass twice to rebuke people for getting up to go to the restroom. I didnt witness this but I heard it from multiple people who did attend that Mass. 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2019, 01:24:51 PM
The guy "directing the choir" is a novelty. A lot of novelties were brought forth when the prior came to Sanford; he literally switched everything in the church, where the first station of the cross was was now the last. Where the Blessed Mother statue was, there now was St. Joseph. All untraditional. 

I think it would be pointless to talk to him. In all charity I think what he means is well but without "supervision" of a higher authority he is destructing. 
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2019, 01:33:57 PM
Is it a coincidence that a French priest brought all these novelties to this church?  Not all French priests are bad (ie Fr Chazal) but it’s a historical fact that the French churches were modernized decades before V2.  Also, lots of French Modernists in the new-sspx leadership.  
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2019, 06:28:43 PM
You can always leave after the gospel, you have no requirement to sit through lengthy sermons anyway.
I know the chapel with the 100$ a plate fundraiser dinners that no one attended. Pretty funny if you know the characters
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2019, 07:22:49 PM
Conclusion?
If you can go to Mass-not the one said by the prior-and leave as soon as it's over, same with confession or other sacraments, then do so.  Skip the social hour.  Avoid the prior.
If this isn't possible, and there are no other alternatives, then stay home alone.  Do be aware, however, that if you have children who are used to the social aspects of a chapel, they may very likely abandon the faith when they leave to go out on their own.  If you think there are slim pickings for suitable mates at a chapel of 200, there are none in your living room!  
I don't know your specific situation.  Pray for wisdom to choose wisely, because you can't go on sinning in your heart every time you hear your prior at Mass!  
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2019, 07:33:53 PM
JUST! GO! TO! MASS!

Stop being a privileged buffoon and complain that things that other people in this world would kill to have. You're like the spoiled teenager whose daddy won't get them this year's Mercedes-Benz, but last year's. 

Man up or shut up.
Title: Re: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go?
Post by: Anonymous on June 14, 2019, 08:24:44 AM
There's nothing more unbecoming than a Catholic who complains about suffering.

Offer it up.

It's not like he's asking the parishioners to sin. Nothing wrong with calling people to a high-level of self-sacrifice. You may not agree OP, but you need to offer it up cause it's clearly bothering you, which means you're suffering from some defect.