Author Topic: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go? (Read 4388 times)

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2019, 03:13:00 PM »

A retreat is not an easy thing to just sign up for. You have to take off work, buy a plane ticket and be apart from your family for an entire week. In this day and age, making daily mass is difficult (if you even have the option of one). Most people struggle to do the basics - daily rosary and morning/evening prayers. Many don't have time for spiritual reading or extra devotions, which would be step 2. Sounds like the priest's efforts are a tad misplaced; a retreat is a luxury.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #16 on:** June 10, 2019, 04:09:47 PM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 03:08:48 PM

Sounds like said prior might be on this thread.

Whoever it is, he proved the vitriol point for the OP.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #17 on:** June 10, 2019, 06:28:51 PM »

Definitely let it go! One shouldn't complain unless he is willingly to help with the solution. Where we used to hear Mass, the choir was terrible. People complained. But when the director begged for volunteers, he got none. It does seem to me a chapel of 200 persons should be able to find people for basics like cleaning, lawn mowing, etc. If not, it's not right to expect the priest to personally do all the grunt work. You want a holy priest, right? One given to prayer and hours before Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. This is not to say the priest should be a lazy bum and have people waiting on him hand and foot, but his main calling is to priestly duties, not janitorial.
If people don't sign up for retreats, volunteer for, or attend parish events, there must be a reason other than the fact that the priest is frustrated. Some of the men of the chapel should meet with him to discuss the reasons for non-participation. I don't know the Sanford area. Is a place very expensive and not conducive to people being able hot afford retreats? Or maybe the distances people come from to hear Mass are prohibitive of events like parish picnics? Perhaps there are no women living close by who can come and clean on a regular basis? Men with the same problem?
Personally, I have not been on a retreat in over a decade and I get to Mass once every six weeks, if so blessed. My health doesn't allow me to make long road trips or to do heavy cleaning. I'm on a fixed income and cannot afford airfare much less the cost of the retreat. Many Catholic families are raising lots of children without the support of extended family or of a surrounding Catholic community life. These parents have all they can do to keep a roof over their heads, food on the table, and educate their children properly. For them, a retreat is out of the question. How many men can take an entire week off from work and how many women can go the whole week without adult help from a husband?
Maybe expense is a problem. Are chapel events not well matched to the members? A chapel populated by young families with many children should not count on crowds at a $100 a plate formal dinner and recital, as at an SSPX chapel that shall remain unnamed. Conversely, well-to-do seniors probably have little interest in attending an outdoor picnic in the park at the ballfield!
If people don't sign up for the priest's activities, no wonder he's frustrated. It could also be the sad truth that most who attend there are selfish, wanting to get something out of Mass, but not give. In which case, if the priest gets upset, one can hardly blame him. If nothing changes, the people can count upon eventually losing the priest, their Mass, and their Sacraments as punishment for lack of appreciation.
The people should take time to speak with their priest, and he with them. Maybe the chapel isn't in a good locale any longer. Circuмstances and social dynamics change.
Unless the OP is willing to do something other than complain, he should, indeed, let it go!

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #18 on:** June 10, 2019, 08:34:54 PM »

To the OP:

If you "let Sanford go", what is your alternative? Assuming all the complaints the OP has made are 100% accurate, none of them, nor all of them together are a sufficient reason to "let the parish go", unless the OP has an alternative place to go to Mass first.

I don't live in Florida, but I do know a bit about the locations of Traditional chapels in Florida, and I'm not aware of any others that I would consider acceptable in the Orlando-area ("acceptable" to me is a chapel of the SSPX, Bp. Williamson or other Resistance Bishops/Priests, the SSPV, CSPV, or those affiliated with Bishops Dolan/Sanborn/Neville). Being that traditional churches are not numerous the OP might live a considerable distance from Sanford anyway, and so perhaps is closer to a chapel of one of those other groups, or even to one of the SSPX Missions in Florida served by the other SSPX Priests in Sanford? If you do have another chapel that is close or even one that is farther away but which you don't mind sacrificing time and gas money to drive farther to get to, your complaints would perhaps be sufficient reasons to go to this alternative chapel.

The bottom line though, is that unless you have an alternative chapel to go to, those complaints are not a sufficient reason to give up Sanford and consider yourself dispensed from your Sunday obligation, nor are they sufficient reasons to attend the Novus Ordo.

As far as the complaints themselves, if you truly can't make the retreats, or truly have no time to help with maintenance around the church, don't dwell on Father's criticisms, as they are not directed at you personally (I assume??) but at those parishioners who DO have time to make the retreats but are too lazy to make the effort, and those parishioners that DO have the time and talent to help with projects around the church but don't out of laziness or selfishness. There are people like that in every parish, and I guarantee there are in Sanford as well.

I have seen it happen before where a larger Traditional parish puts on an activity like a retreat and the majority of attendees are from outside the parish. That has got to be incredibly frustrating and/or embarrassing for the parish Priest that his own parishioners won't take advantage of what's offered them. While there are undoubtedly people like the OP who can't make a retreat or help out with maintenance, there are also undoubtedly others who could do both of these things, and just don't. People tend toward laziness both spiritually and physically (it is one of the 7 Capital Sins after all), and sometimes need a little cajoling from their pastor to get them fervent again.

I hope this helps.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #19 on:** June 10, 2019, 08:53:32 PM »

We pray for everyone at Sanford, Florida chapel.

Certain chores should be done by young people too. Everyone needs to help out their parish. Make up a sign up sheet. Take turns.

Have fundraisers to fund pilgrimages and retreats especially St Ignatius Silent retreat. It is great that a priest is encouraging Catholic activities.

Now more than ever we need to pray for our priests and realize they all have different personalities too. The chapel in Sanford is beautiful and holy. The people were kind and friendly.

Nadir · « **Reply #20 on:** June 10, 2019, 10:32:31 PM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 09:33:45 AM

Should I give advice to the prior through CathInfo or just let it continue on its path?

This seems a strange way to go about things!

What do other attendees have to say? Why don't you take the bull by the horns and face the priest like a man? If others agree you could approach him as a group, choosing the most diplomatic person as front man.
And be thankful you have a Mass to attend. So many of us have no spiritual consolation at all.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #21 on:** June 11, 2019, 01:55:05 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 02:50:08 PM

Here’s an example, the prior was complaining that no one from Sanford has signed up for the retreat, and he called them cowards and lovers of a comfort life in air condition, among other insults. That is what I call vitriol.

Here is what should have been said instead, very few people from Sanford have signed up for the Ignatian Retreats, please do not wait till the last minute to sign up, as we need to prepare the lodging and food and other preparations. For those of you who do not know what an Ignatian Retreat is, it is this……….. (explain its history, and every detail , like why it is a silent retreat etc. and the reason why it is vital for a take the time off from the world). Explain how they have beautiful retreat houses in Los Gatos California and Ridgefield Connecticut, that of course our facilities in Sanford do not compare, but we have made them available for those that can’t afford the travel expenses. Our meals in Sanford though are far superior to Los Gatos and Ridgefield!

Constructive criticism shouldn't be taken as pointless complaining.
But, don't post it anonymously online. Go and tell him yourself. If your objective is the same as his -- to get people involved in these activities -- I don't see why he'd not appreciate suggestions.
He'd also probably do well to talk to individuals about what the obstacles are to their participation and see if any of those can be resolved.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #22 on:** June 11, 2019, 05:05:25 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 10, 2019, 02:50:08 PM

This is the OP making his third posting.

Someone came on here and changed the direction of the OP to a complaint about too much work, but I never complained about too much work. The parishioners in the Sanford chapel are by far the most generous people I have ever known, the work they’ve done in the last 15 years building that place is mind boggling for such a small congregation. The priory was 2000 square foot house, and recently they paid well over $600,000 to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory. That’s a 4000 sq ft home (in Florida!) for 6 men! Theirs is no way you could call the parishioners anything but astronomical generous. The writer has contributed as much as the most generous.

The reason for my posting was to tell the prior that honey attracts more bees than vinegar. All I here every week in sermons is hateful insults to the parishioners. That is not going to get good results.

Here’s an example, the prior was complaining that no one from Sanford has signed up for the retreat, and he called them cowards and lovers of a comfort life in air condition, among other insults. That is what I call vitriol.

Here is what should have been said instead, very few people from Sanford have signed up for the Ignatian Retreats, please do not wait till the last minute to sign up, as we need to prepare the lodging and food and other preparations. For those of you who do not know what an Ignatian Retreat is, it is this……….. (explain its history, and every detail , like why it is a silent retreat etc. and the reason why it is vital for a take the time off from the world). Explain how they have beautiful retreat houses in Los Gatos California and Ridgefield Connecticut, that of course our facilities in Sanford do not compare, but we have made them available for those that can’t afford the travel expenses. Our meals in Sanford though are far superior to Los Gatos and Ridgefield!

I hope the prior can see the difference between the two methods and learns to refrain from using vinegar in the future.

Amazing. How long have you been a trad that his manner of speech offends you? Do you think you all deserve an apology for his manner of speech? Do you think that he should apologize to everyone for encouraging his congregation, his flock, his sheep to do some spiritual exercises? Or should he apologize to everyone for condemning the comforts they enjoy, perhaps at the expense of their souls? Or just apologize for saying what has to be said so clearly - for a priest with a heavy accent. What a meanie! :heretic:

Here is this past Sunday's sermon where he speaks the truth. Listen at about 1:23:00 to 1:24:00, listen for just this one minute where what he says apparently pierces the souls of some Floridians. You want him to say the same thing only in a nicer way with softer words - so that the message might not get through at all or with out the same force?

It is no wonder that priest says what he says the way he says it, which is already much, much softer than I've heard from other trad priests in the past. If all the congregation is so easily offended or thinks this insults their intelligence, he must be going mad putting up with you all. That's how you *should* view it, try to look at it from his point of view and don't be so easily offended.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #23 on:** June 11, 2019, 05:45:27 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 05:05:25 AM

Amazing. How long have you been a trad that his manner of speech offends you? Do you think you all deserve an apology for his manner of speech? Do you think that he should apologize to everyone for encouraging his congregation, his flock, his sheep to do some spiritual exercises? Or should he apologize to everyone for condemning the comforts they enjoy, perhaps at the expense of their souls? Or just apologize for saying what has to be said so clearly - for a priest with a heavy accent. What a meanie! :heretic:

Here is this past Sunday's sermon where he speaks the truth. Listen at about 1:23:00 to 1:24:00, listen for just this one minute where what he says apparently pierces the souls of some Floridians. You want him to say the same thing only in a nicer way with softer words - so that the message might not get through at all or with out the same force?

It is no wonder that priest says what he says the way he says it, which is already much, much softer than I've heard from other trad priests in the past. If all the congregation is so easily offended or thinks this insults their intelligence, he must be going mad putting up with you all. That's how you *should* view it, try to look at it from his point of view and don't be so easily offended.

I think the priest shows a genuine concern for the souls at his church. He should understand that people, who are used to comforts like air conditioning, have a difficult time adapting when these things aren’t available. I, for one, have a serious problem sleeping when the room temperature is above 70 degrees. He is right however, that we need to withdraw ourselves from such a pampered lifestyle.

Quo vadis Domine · « **Reply #24 on:** June 11, 2019, 05:47:10 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 05:05:25 AM

Amazing. How long have you been a trad that his manner of speech offends you? Do you think you all deserve an apology for his manner of speech? Do you think that he should apologize to everyone for encouraging his congregation, his flock, his sheep to do some spiritual exercises? Or should he apologize to everyone for condemning the comforts they enjoy, perhaps at the expense of their souls? Or just apologize for saying what has to be said so clearly - for a priest with a heavy accent. What a meanie! :heretic:

Here is this past Sunday's sermon where he speaks the truth. Listen at about 1:23:00 to 1:24:00, listen for just this one minute where what he says apparently pierces the souls of some Floridians. You want him to say the same thing only in a nicer way with softer words - so that the message might not get through at all or with out the same force?

It is no wonder that priest says what he says the way he says it, which is already much, much softer than I've heard from other trad priests in the past. If all the congregation is so easily offended or thinks this insults their intelligence, he must be going mad putting up with you all. That's how you *should* view it, try to look at it from his point of view and don't be so easily offended.

Forgot to check the box.
I think the priest shows a genuine concern for the souls at his church. He should understand that people, who are used to comforts like air conditioning, have a difficult time adapting when these things aren’t available. I, for one, have a serious problem sleeping when the room temperature is above 70 degrees. He is right however, that we need to withdraw ourselves from such a pampered lifestyle.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #25 on:** June 11, 2019, 08:30:36 AM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on June 11, 2019, 05:47:10 AM

Forgot to check the box.
I think the priest shows a genuine concern for the souls at his church. He should understand that people, who are used to comforts like air conditioning, have a difficult time adapting when these things aren’t available. I, for one, have a serious problem sleeping when the room temperature is above 70 degrees. He is right however, that we need to withdraw ourselves from such a pampered lifestyle.

Wait the priest is complaining about THAT? In Florida of all places?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #26 on:** June 11, 2019, 09:05:38 AM »

From the OP, my 4th posting
Like I aid before, someone changed the direction of this thread from my intended purpose (to bring to the attention of the prior that he if things are not going according to his desires, that he should not insult the people calling them lazy, cowards, selfish…..) Here is an example, does this make you feel like you are dealing with a Catholic?:

Quote

You are ungrateful. It is because the ungrateful and lazy congregation full of do-nothings that forces the priest to ask in the first place. It's like this: nobody, or not enough people clean, maintains the chapel, or basically even takes care of the most basic of necessities, so that when the priest is forced to ask for help, you throw a tizzy. This behavior is only too typical of ungrateful people. You must be a democrat.

This thread was never about complaining about too much work

Quote

OP said: Someone came on here and changed the direction of the OP to a complaint about too much work, but I never complained about too much work. The parishioners in the Sanford chapel are by far the most generous people I have ever known, the work they’ve done in the last 15 years building that place is mind boggling for such a small congregation. The priory was 2000 square foot house, and recently they paid well over $600,000 to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory. That’s a 4000 sq ft home (in Florida!) for 6 men! Theirs is no way you could call the parishioners anything but astronomical generous. The writer has contributed as much as the most generous.

The reason for my posting was to tell the prior that honey attracts more bees than vinegar. All I here every week in sermons is hateful insults to the parishioners. That is not going to get good results.

Quote

If you "let Sanford go", what is your alternative? Assuming all the complaints the OP has made are 100% accurate, none of them, nor all of them together are a sufficient reason to "let the parish go",

I never said I would leave I said “Should I give advice to the prior through CathInfo or just let it continue on its path?” It’s path is whatever comes of it.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #27 on:** June 11, 2019, 09:17:34 AM »

OP 5^th posting

Quote

OP wrote: The parishioners in the Sanford chapel are by far the most generous people I have ever known, the work they’ve done in the last 15 years building that place is mind boggling for such a small congregation. The priory was 2000 square foot house, and recently they paid well over $600,000 to make a 2000 square foot addition to the priory. That’s a 4000 sq ft home (in Florida!) for 6 men! Theirs is no way you could call the parishioners anything but astronomical generous. The writer has contributed as much as the most generous.

Quote

The complaining poster wrote: You are ungrateful. It is because the ungrateful and lazy congregation full of do-nothings that forces the priest to ask in the first place. It's like this: nobody, or not enough people clean, maintains the chapel, or basically even takes care of the most basic of necessities, so that when the priest is forced to ask for help, you throw a tizzy. This behavior is only too typical of ungrateful people. You must be a democrat.

Either the person complaining has only been a parishioner a very short time, maybe a few months, or else the person is ___________.

What the OP wrote above is a historical fact, that can be verified by observing the aerial photographs in Google through the years.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #28 on:** June 11, 2019, 09:42:10 AM »

Quote

The reason for my posting was to tell the prior that honey attracts more bees than vinegar. All I here every week in sermons is hateful insults to the parishioners. That is not going to get good results.

Too much honey makes one sick. Once sick, vinegar is needed to purge the innards to make one well. There has been too much honey, especially within the SSPX.
.
What you consider vinegar or hateful insults are in reality nothing more then pleadings from the priest trying to get those in his charge to save their souls.
.
Get over it. Go ahead and speak to the priest, but don't be saddened when he offers only more vinegar.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #29 on:** June 11, 2019, 12:34:58 PM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 11, 2019, 09:42:10 AM

Too much honey makes one sick. Once sick, vinegar is needed to purge the innards to make one well. There has been too much honey, especially within the SSPX.

Thanks for the contribution Bishop Fellay.

Author Topic: Sanford SSPX - should I just let it go? (Read 4388 times)

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