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Author Topic: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite  (Read 2067 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2024, 05:37:01 PM »
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  • Thank you for pointing this out.  Very important.

    No, it's completely out of context.  Read St. Thomas above.  For the poster to try to parlay this into the notion of there being such a thing as involuntary sin is utterly absurd.  Sometimes I feel like I find myself in a cult freakshow among some Trads.


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #46 on: April 17, 2024, 05:37:26 PM »
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  • So you're assuming internal forum guilt of a mal-formed conscience.  Got it.  Most people growing up in the NO don't now anything else.  I grew up thinking simply that this is a Catholic Mass.  I could discern bad practices in the NOM, in which I would refuse to participate, i.e. Communion in the Hand, etc., but that's it.  I was nearly 30 years old before even the internet was a "thing".

    I wrote quite clearly above, that that there could be some culpability (known in most cases only to God) with regard to whether or not the individual sufficiently informed himself.

    To extend my example of the $100 bill above.  I take $100 off a table (and pocket it), thinking it's mine, though in reality it belongs to someone else.  Maybe I should have investigated, or asked around first, but heck if I didn't just have a very similar $100 bill a few minutes earlier, so it never even occurred to me that it just might belong to someone else rather than being my own.

    BOTTOM LINE:  You cannot commit a grave sin without knowing it to be a grave sin and willing it anyway.  Nobody commits a grave sin without knowing it.  This is utterly absurd and people have to stop trying to spread that crap. Natural law is known in written in men's hearts and is knowable there, just like the existence of God, and the only way one doesn't know it is by drowning it out.  But positive law, such as the requirement to fast on Fridays, or questions like whether the NOM is displeasing to God, those are not.  Very many sincere individuals have concluded that the NOM is not offensive to God.  I could sit here myself and make a convincing devil's advocate case for the NOM myself, reducing the evils we see to "abuses" of the "pure" NOM.


    Absolutely correct! This is moral theology 101 for goodness sake!
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #47 on: April 17, 2024, 05:41:55 PM »
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  • Wrong.  The act can be mortally sinful (i.e. a pagan who makes fun of Catholicism or is blasphemous), while the culpability/guilt can be non-existent (because the person didn't know any better).

    :facepalm: oh, for crying out loud.  You don't seem to understand the basic distinction.  If "culpability/guilt" is non-existent then the sin is not MORTAL.  You seem to be completely unable to distinguish between "grave matter" and "mortal sin".  MORTAL SIN (as also mis-used often by the Dimonds Brothers), is called mortal specifically because it extinguishes grace in the soul, i.e. it speaks to the subjective (culpability/guilt) aspect of the sin.  To the point of this thread, actions that entail grave matter but of which the individual is not culpable or guilty need not be confessed in the Sacrament of Confession.

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #48 on: April 17, 2024, 05:48:10 PM »
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  • There's literally no reason not to do so. People should be making yearly general confessions anyway, but instead they're reluctant to do it once after a supposed conversion from a lax Novus Ordo life. Ridiculous.

    General confessions should be made:
    1) before receiving the sacraments of confirmation and matrimony
    2) at any important spiritual junction or when turning over a new leaf after a period of sin
    3) periodically (St. Francis de Sales says yearly) to reflect on your past life and ensure the validity of your confessions.

    Priests should recommend general confessions regularly instead of thwarting them.
    I fear that I will become scrupulous if I make general confessions more, so far I have only done it once since my conversion, and everytime I remember a past mortal sin I make sure to confess it at the next confession.

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #49 on: April 17, 2024, 05:53:48 PM »
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  • No, it's completely out of context.  Read St. Thomas above.  For the poster to try to parlay this into the notion of there being such a thing as involuntary sin is utterly absurd.  Sometimes I feel like I find myself in a cult freakshow among some Trads.
    Thanks for you answers, I am the one who posted the drunkenness example earlier. The clarification is helpful. Though I still don't have a full understanding on this.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #50 on: April 17, 2024, 07:49:15 PM »
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  • Quote
    In a Quodlibetal question St Thomas says, 

    "sometimes an erroneous conscience does not absolve or excuse from sin, namely when the error itself is a sin, proceeding from ignorance of that which someone is able to and obliged to know, as for example, if someone believed fornication to be simply a venial sin, and then, [if he committed fornication], although he would believe that he was sinning venially, he would not be sinning venially, but mortally" (Quodlibetal 8, q. 6, a. 5)
    A poorly formed conscience does not excuse from sin.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #51 on: April 18, 2024, 04:53:44 AM »
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  • Quote
    In a Quodlibetal question St Thomas says, 

    "sometimes an erroneous conscience does not absolve or excuse from sin, namely when the error itself is a sin, proceeding from ignorance of that which someone is able to and obliged to know, as for example, if someone believed fornication to be simply a venial sin, and then, [if he committed fornication], although he would believe that he was sinning venially, he would not be sinning venially, but mortally" (Quodlibetal 8, q. 6, a. 5)

    A poorly formed conscience does not excuse from sin.
    Agreed.

    The first day of the 9 day Novena to the Holy Ghost says: "Sin is the result of ignorance, weakness and indifference..."

    It's the oldest known novena - is it wrong? Lad and QV are pushing the idea that all those who've been praying it daily, even for centuries, are unable to "understand the basic distinction." Ridiculous.

    It means that those who do wrong will suffer the consequences of doing wrong.

     



    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #52 on: April 18, 2024, 05:40:11 AM »
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  • I fear that I will become scrupulous if I make general confessions more, so far I have only done it once since my conversion, and everytime I remember a past mortal sin I make sure to confess it at the next confession.
    I suggest confession once a week whether you need it or not. It is good to always confess sins you previously forgot, but if by the grace of God you have no mortal sins to confess, simply say: "Forgive me father for I have sinned, it's been one week since my last confession. In that time I did not commit any mortal sins Father, but for all the sins of my whole life especially the sins of "X" I am heartily sorry, please, forgive me Father."




    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #53 on: April 18, 2024, 08:01:20 AM »
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  • I fear that I will become scrupulous if I make general confessions more, so far I have only done it once since my conversion, and everytime I remember a past mortal sin I make sure to confess it at the next confession.
    Nonsense, general confessions are useful for ENDING scruples, not exacerbating them.

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #54 on: April 18, 2024, 11:33:30 AM »
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  • Why is this even being argued about. The Church teaches clearly that for one to be guilty of mortal sin there needs to be (1) sufficient knowledge and (2) consent in committing a grave act (3). You can find this in catechisms and in prayer books under examination of conscience / preparation for Confession. If you disagree that insufficient knowledge renders the sin venial for that person, you are literally disagreeing with the Church.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #55 on: April 18, 2024, 01:10:58 PM »
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  • Quote
    Why is this even being argued about. The Church teaches clearly that for one to be guilty of mortal sin there needs to be (1) sufficient knowledge and (2) consent in committing a grave act (3). You can find this in catechisms and in prayer books under examination of conscience / preparation for Confession. If you disagree that insufficient knowledge renders the sin venial for that person, you are literally disagreeing with the Church.
    Catechisms provide a 3rd-grade level view of the Faith.  Adult life is more complex.


    A child cannot be guilty of ignorance because they only know what others teach them.  Adults have a duty to learn their Faith.  If they don't know something, they can't claim ignorance, it's their fault.


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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #56 on: April 19, 2024, 08:12:48 PM »
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  • For the anonymous who quoted "the new CCC":

    This is not a real Catholic catechism. This is the Novus Ordo catechism. People won't take your arguments seriously if you quote Modernist books, and you take a serious risk of learning some grave errors by reading this horrible books.

    Be aware of Modernism.
    I quoted the CCC to show that even the new church has something right.  This idea that you cannot commit mortal sins if you are ignorant is not logical. It's like that meme of the Eskimo who says why did you tell me about God if I am condemned? Why bother educating people about sin if their ignorance keeps them from mortal sin. It also appears contrary to scripture, St Paul says drunkards will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Yet most people do not know that drunkenness is a sin, surely these people will be condemned for their drunkenness and their ignorance won't change that?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #57 on: April 19, 2024, 08:30:35 PM »
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  • I quoted the CCC to show that even the new church has something right.  This idea that you cannot commit mortal sins if you are ignorant is not logical. It's like that meme of the Eskimo who says why did you tell me about God if I am condemned? Why bother educating people about sin if their ignorance keeps them from mortal sin. It also appears contrary to scripture, St Paul says drunkards will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Yet most people do not know that drunkenness is a sin, surely these people will be condemned for their drunkenness and their ignorance won't change that?


    If I forgot it was Friday and had ham for breakfast did I commit a sin? 
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #58 on: April 19, 2024, 08:53:15 PM »
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  • If I forgot it was Friday and had ham for breakfast did I commit a sin?

    To expand on this, was the sin (if committed) mortal or venial? 
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #59 on: April 19, 2024, 09:50:56 PM »
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  • Stupid example, QVD.  If you “forgot” then that means you knew the law.  The debate is over people who don’t know (or care) about church law.