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Author Topic: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite  (Read 2051 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
« on: April 15, 2024, 08:44:05 PM »
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  • To be more clear pertaining to my situation, I have been attending the SSPX for around two years as this point. Before then, I attended the new mass. I have been to the Novus Ordo for confession many times, yet I am now scrupulous that those confessions may have been invalid.

    Now this isn’t for any particular reason, as in, I believe the correct form, matter, and words were present during the sacrament, but that I am scrupulous based on the sole fact that my absolution came from a Priest within the Novus Ordo.

    Fr. McFarland of the SSPX does ease my conscious on this topic, after ensuring that the ordinations in the New Rite ARE indeed valid according to him in a video (Crisis Series #39) put up by the SSPX YouTube channel. Though I trust Fr. McFarland's opinion on the subject (in reference to the validity of their ordinations), the worry is still there.

    The sins I've confessed are many, and frankly extremely embarrassing, and the thought of having to confess them again makes me sick. I feel like it'd be similar to another first confession for me.


    If I’m worried, should I just re-confess my sins anyways?

    Should I stop being so scrupulous and put my faith in God?

    Should I not focus on it so much because, regardless of if those confessions were invalid (which I have no idea about) all of my sins have been forgiven at my last confession with a Traditional Priest anyways?


    If I believe my absolutions were valid, yet it turns out they weren't, does any fault really fall on me?

    Any answers would be great.


    Online Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #1 on: April 15, 2024, 09:36:10 PM »
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  • If you really believed that the Novus Ordo priests are valid, we wouldn't be talking, right?

    In my opinion, the Novus Ordo orders are doubtful and not unquestionably invalid. In this case, I don't think that we are bound to reconfess our sins.



    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #2 on: April 15, 2024, 10:33:53 PM »
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  • My opinion is that new rites are doubtful so you are correct in having some anxiety.  You could just do a general confession to a Trad priest.  You wouldn’t have to reconfess things specifically but could be more general. 

    But only do this if you’re going to stop new rite confessions completely, from now on.  

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #3 on: April 16, 2024, 12:50:38 AM »
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  • If you really believed that the Novus Ordo priests are valid, we wouldn't be talking, right?

    In my opinion, the Novus Ordo orders are doubtful and not unquestionably invalid. In this case, I don't think that we are bound to reconfess our sins.
    This, OP the new rite for BISHOPS is doubtful, and doubtful sacraments are to be considered invalid, hence all the Novus Ordo priests should also be considered invalid.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #4 on: April 16, 2024, 01:04:58 AM »
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  • Should I risk my soul or not? 

    No-brainer. 


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #5 on: April 16, 2024, 05:31:52 AM »
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  • If it were me, I would re-confess, just as if the NO priest was not a priest regardless of whatever anyone else says about NO ordinations being valid. They brought this doubt on themselves, we did not.

    Confessing one's sins to the priest is not meant to be a pleasant experience because you must really humble yourself to do it. The priest (who is also a sinner) is himself edified by a good confession.  
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #6 on: April 16, 2024, 05:46:05 AM »
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  • This, OP the new rite for BISHOPS is doubtful, and doubtful sacraments are to be considered invalid, hence all the Novus Ordo priests should also be considered invalid.
    That is exaggerated. There are still Novus Ordo priests around, usually retired, who were ordained before 1968. Very few bishops are still alive who were consecrated before 1968.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #7 on: April 16, 2024, 06:31:38 AM »
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  • That is exaggerated. There are still Novus Ordo priests around, usually retired, who were ordained before 1968. Very few bishops are still alive who were consecrated before 1968.

    Right, but there are fewer and fewer, and so it's likely that OP confessed to one of these types.

    This is certainly a complicated question.

    I've come to the conclusion that there's some gray area here between positive and negative doubt, between subjective and objective doubt.  If I personally hold that there's positive doubt, but many priests out there hold that there isn't, I feel that the doubt is in some gray area between negative and positive, between subjective and objective ... i.e. since there's disagreement out there among Traditional Catholics, objectively speaking, rendering the doubt (try to follow) ...

    subjectively objective but objectively subjective :laugh1:.

    In other words, I personally hold that there's objective positive doubt, but objectively speaking there's disagreemnet about it, making it objectively subjective (i.e. it's my opinion that's not shared by others).

    While you could just submit to Fr. McFarland's opinion (or that of your SSPX confessor), you personally might continue to have your own doubts, and if you went to a different priest, you might get a different opinion.

    In general, the faithful are not obliged to be theologians and can probably simply go with the opinion of their confessor.  So based on objective probabilism (about who's right on this issue), I don't think OP would have a grave obligation to repeat those past Confessions, but it would be conducive to his peace of soul if he did.  So one thing I might recommend as a compromise position would be to just go to certainly-valid priests going forward, and at the end of each confession, just make part of a general confession each time at the end (since it's always permitted to mention past sins), until you've "caught up".  You could break it down either chronologically (when I was 1-10 years old), next time (when I was 11-20), etc. ... or by Commandment.  As Father Alphonsus used to say, even the most eventful general confession should take no more than 10 minutes, since there are only 10 commandments.  You could just mention a sin and a number, without any more detail than that.  Of course, with general confessions, numbers can be hard to come up with, so maybe a frequency of sin.

    That's probably what I would recommend to OP, to be at peace, since you've had a confessor tell you there's no doubt and that you can, in the practical order, proceed on his advice, but then for your own peace, just gradually (without feeling a strict obligation), supplement future confessions with a partial general until all put together you'd have effectively made a general confession.

    To sum it up, while you might have your opinion, the faithful are not obliged to be theologians (adjudicating the validity of Sacraments or even adjudicating between the opinions of different priests) and can in good conscience accept the advice of a confessor (even if that confessor might, in your opinion, be wrong).  So I would hold that you're not under strict obligation, given your status as lay faithful, to adjudicate the question of validity or to adjudicate between the opinions of different priests, but I would recommend going forward to confess the past sins little by little at the end of each confession going forward until you've "caught" up, so that you could be at complete peace.





    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #8 on: April 16, 2024, 06:39:59 AM »
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  • This might be in a similar category to the situation where "I can't remember whether I confessed a certain sin.  I don't remember that I confessed it, but also don't remember that I didn't confess it."  I think in that scenario it reduces ultimately to a negative doubt, where you're not under strict obligation to confess the sin, but at the same time it would do no harm to mention it.  Such types of doubts could drive a scrupulous individual crazy, since, after all, one's memory can get a bit fuzzy after years, and even decades, have passed.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #9 on: April 16, 2024, 06:40:41 AM »
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  • OP, I was going to suggest asking your priest, but then realized that that priest probably thinks the New Rite orders are valid.  Do you have access to /Can you contact a Resistance or Sede priest?  If so, I would get their opinion.  I think they would probably recommend some sort of general confession. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #10 on: April 16, 2024, 06:43:32 AM »
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  • OP, I was going to suggest asking your priest, but then realized that that priest probably thinks the New Rite orders are valid.  Do you have access to /Can you contact a Resistance or Sede priest?  If so, I would get their opinion.  I think they would probably recommend some sort of general confession.

    What's the point of getting another opinion from a different priest?  That puts a layman in the position of adjudicating between the opinions of diferent priests, and so therefore it's meaningless to get different opinions (since you know they're out there), and it would ultimately come down to your own opinion anyway, at the end of the day and in the final analysis.  I believe I recall Bishop Sanborn stating that the faithful could just go with the opinion of the priest they approach and have ready access to ... and are not obliged to go "opinion shopping" until they get one that conforms to their own ideas.  At that point, you might as well just go with what you think, since that's what it'll boil down to anyway if you go from one priest to another getting different opinions.

    OP already KNOWS that there are differing opinions about the matter out there.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #11 on: April 16, 2024, 07:02:28 AM »
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  • What's the point of getting another opinion from a different priest?  That puts a layman in the position of adjudicating between the opinions of diferent priests, and so therefore it's meaningless to get different opinions (since you know they're out there), and it would ultimately come down to your own opinion anyway, at the end of the day and in the final analysis.  I believe I recall Bishop Sanborn stating that the faithful could just go with the opinion of the priest they approach and have ready access to ... and are not obliged to go "opinion shopping" until they get one that conforms to their own ideas.  At that point, you might as well just go with what you think, since that's what it'll boil down to anyway if you go from one priest to another getting different opinions.

    OP already KNOWS that there are differing opinions about the matter out there.
    I should have been clearer. 

    Assuming the New Rite of Ordination is doubtful/invalid (which is what I think the OP really thinks), find out what a priest who thinks similarly would think about what to do with past sins confessed to a NO priest.

    So far it doesn't sound like the OP has spoken with a priest about what he/she needs to do assuming the NO ordination is doubtful. 

    I wasn't referring to getting another opinion on the validity of the rite.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #12 on: April 16, 2024, 07:19:56 AM »
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  • I should have been clearer. 

    Assuming the New Rite of Ordination is doubtful/invalid (which is what I think the OP really thinks), find out what a priest who thinks similarly would think about what to do with past sins confessed to a NO priest.

    So far it doesn't sound like the OP has spoken with a priest about what he/she needs to do assuming the NO ordination is doubtful.

    I wasn't referring to getting another opinion on the validity of the rite.

    OK, but the question of whether someone has an obligation to re-confess these past sins is going to be a direct corollary to the opinion regarding the validity of the rite.  If someone holds that the new rite (or Orders) is certainly invalid or at least positively doubtful, then they'd hold the person has to confess the sins again.  If someone holds that it's valid or that the doubt is only negative, they'd hold that there's no obligation to re-confess.  There is, however, also, the additional complexity that some of the confessions may have been valid since, as Elwin pointed out, not all NO priests are invalid or doubtful (since there are still some older ones floating around out there, and the farther back OP's confessions go in time, the more likely it is that some of them were to unquestionably valid priests).  So I don't see how any opinion regarding the obligation to re-confess past sins can be separated cleanly from one's opinion regarding the validity of NO Orders.

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #13 on: April 16, 2024, 10:53:52 AM »
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  • I went through the same questions when I cam over from the NO church to the SSPX.  I did some very sinful acts that I confessed to the NO priest and was literally sick to my stomach when I realized those NO confessions MAY not of been valid.  I asked an old aged SSPX priest about this situation and if I really needed to confess those sins again and he said no.  He said my intent was there and that the next time I received absolution from a traditional priest all those sins along with the ones I currently confessed will have been forgiven even if the NO priest was not valid..    I also must tell you though, that over the years being with the SSPX, I still, gradually re-confessed those sins, not because I felt they weren't forgiven, but because I wanted the act of humility to offerup for things and intentions.  It was not an easy thing to do, but I did it and I felt so go after I did.  Such peace I have now. I to this day re-confess sins from the past for an act of humility and I tell the priest why and they always say that it's good to reflect back on things, not that you dwell on them, but to appreciate and trust the sacraments and realize how far your have come with Gods Grace. I can also tell you that I can now go into the confessional and continue to re-confess anything with such ease.  I think this is grace! I realize no matter how bad the sin, no matter how embarrassing the sin, the priest doesn't care.  The worse it is, the happier they are for you that you are there confessing. So to sum things up, I don't think you need to re-confess, but at the same time, if you do, the grace that comes with reconfessing will give you such peace of mind and soul and even more grace that will help you with future confessions!  

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #14 on: April 16, 2024, 11:21:00 AM »
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  • So I don't see how any opinion regarding the obligation to re-confess past sins can be separated cleanly from one's opinion regarding the validity of NO Orders.

    Not everything is crystal-clear, black vs. white.  When I came to Tradition from the Novus Ordo, I had no opinion at all on the validity of NO Orders, or not much.  Hadn't really given it much thought, because I hadn't heard anything about it.  But I had heard stories of various Sacraments, such as Confession, sounding like they could be of dubious validity, because of defects of matter, form & intention, not intrinsic to the Novus Ordo rites themselves, but because of the chaos that exists in the Novus Ordo, what a free-for-all it is, and how so many priests don't even seem to believe in the Sacraments in a Traditional way.  I went on an Ignatian Retreat, and was glad to do the general Confession, just in case I'd ever had any invalid Confessions over the years.  

    To the OP:  You might want to consider making a Traditional Ignatian Retreat, including a general Confession of your life, and that way it will alleviate any doubts you might have.