Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on September 18, 2018, 01:43:11 PM
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It's kind of weird how they're doing public schools in my town. They broke it down into age groups instead of just having schools with multiple grades. So all the kids pre-school and kindergarten go to one school. You have 1st -4th graders going all to one school. You have all the 5th to 8th graders all going to one school. So they're busing kids all across town. You could live next to a school but you're going to be bused to a school clear across town if you don't hit the right age group. I asked what if your kid is getting bullied? You can't switch schools no more? The person I asked said they don't care about these kids. It's all about saving money.
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It's kind of weird how they're doing public schools in my town. They broke it down into age groups instead of just having schools with multiple grades. So all the kids pre-school and kindergarten go to one school. You have 1st -4th graders going all to one school. You have all the 5th to 8th graders all going to one school. So they're busing kids all across town. You could live next to a school but you're going to be bused to a school clear across town if you don't hit the right age group. I asked what if your kid is getting bullied? You can't switch schools no more? The person I asked said they don't care about these kids. It's all about saving money.
If you consider yourself a practicing Catholic, how can you send your kids to public school in 2018, the current year?
I hope you're just curious and read newspapers a lot, and you're not speaking from personal experience here.
But just in case there are a couple of Catholics out there sending their children to public school, I must address them:
Are you aware of how anti-Catholic, anti-common sense, and anti NATURE the Leftists have become? And they control the schools!
Stuff like this:
https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/gender-madness/
You want your kids to be taught that gender is a social construct, that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and masturbation are fine, birth control and abortion are fine and virtuous, and in High School they will receive explicit sex-ed material in a coed setting? How can you justify that as a Catholic?
Better for your kids to receive a grossly inadequate education while you attempt to homeschool (even if you can't do it well), or have to move to a state that allows homeschooling and take a HUGE pay cut, meaning that most of your family's life is spent in poverty (including Food Stamps) than to see your children corrupted and in Hell for eternity...
Life is shorter than you think. Eternity is forever. Saving your children's souls is ALL that matters, and the primary heading on which parents will be judged by God.
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I should add that when I went to school there were four schools that went k-5. You had two schools that went 6-8 grades. High school you all went to one school but you still had choices. You could choose to drive your child to the next town. I don't think that's an option anymore.
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If you consider yourself a practicing Catholic, how can you send your kids to public school in 2018, the current year?
Are you aware of how anti-Catholic, anti-common sense, and anti NATURE the Leftists have become? And they control the schools!
1. I don't send a child to public school. 2. Catholic schooling in my area is not an option. 3. It's pretty obvious from my post that I just found out public school do this. 4. My post reaffirms the dangers of public schooling
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For what it's worth, here's an excellent sermon by a trad priest on the tragedy of public education
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP_MnOd-8QQ
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I think a lot of Catholics my age were forced into public schools because Vatican II closed down schools. It was around the time of the first child abuse scandal. The public schools were liberal back then but it was mostly on race issues. I was able to see right through that stuff. My family wasn't very Catholic. I found traditional Catholicism later in life. Thanks internet!
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Homeschooling is the best option.
See if there is a cooperative home school where your children can attend group classes once or twice a week or even more often.
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It is as the OP says, that public school districts are grouping children by age into various buildings. The reason is entirely financial. All the educational research points to neighborhood schoola with a wide range of age groups being a psychologically and educationally healthier environment. This is the natural result of readily available, socially acceptable birth control. The school districts that mushroomed during the baby boom years find the declining birthrate hard on the bottom line. It's called streamlining and is usually presented as the most progressive trend in education. Districts that, at one time, couldn't build additions and new schools fast enough now find themselves letting staff and faculty go, selling off their older buildings. It has the same effect as busing in that there is no choice whatsoever for attending different schools within the same district.
Case in point, I graduated from a suburban school district in 1978. When I started in 1965, the district had three small buildings and went up to grade 4, after which time students attended class in a neighboring district with a regional high school. By 1978, the district covered grades K-12, and had seven elementary schools, K-5, three middle schools, 6-8, and two high schools, 9-12. Ten years ago, they began closing and selling the older, original buildings. They are down to two elementary buildings, one with grades K-2, the other with grades 3-5, one middle school, 6-8, and one high school, 9-12. One wing of the K-2 building is for administrative offices. If the number of children continues to decline at the same rate, the long range plan is to place grades K-5 in two of the three wings of the present K-2 building, and sell the other. There is the possibility of housing middle and high school in the present high school, and selling the middle school.
The general population of the area is actually increasing, but it is from an influx of well-to-do young professionals, the majority of whom have only one child or no children at all. Middle, working, or low income families cannot afford to live there. The baby boomers who stayed are now retired and are choosing to "age in place."
Increasingly, anyone having a large, traditional type family has a substantially lower standard of living than the one in which they were raised often having no choice but to move away from grandparents and older relatives.
For most serious Catholics, the public schools are no place to send their children. Homeschooling or some variation of it is the only option for most. As said one poster, better to be on welfare and SNAP than to send one's children to lose their souls in public school.
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The OP did not say anything about sending her kids to public school. IMO, these days Catholic parents who send their children to public school are sending their children directly to demonic indoctrination and as such, are certainly guilty of committing a very grave sin for sending their innocent children into an environment of spiritual (and mental) murder.
The same must be said of those parents who send, or otherwise approve of their children going to college whether they live on campus or not. Parents will be held fully responsible before God for the damage done to their children, hence the entire family at public school, and also fully responsible for not doing what they should have done for their older children, namely, condemn and vehemently discourage them from attending college at all.
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The OP did not say anything about sending her kids to public school. IMO, these days Catholic parents who send their children to public school are sending their children directly to demonic indoctrination and as such, are certainly guilty of committing a very grave sin for sending their innocent children into an environment of spiritual (and mental) murder.
The same must be said of those parents who send, or otherwise approve of their children going to college whether they live on campus or not. Parents will be held fully responsible before God for the damage done to their children, hence the entire family at public school, and also fully responsible for not doing what they should have done for their older children, namely, condemn and vehemently discourage them from attending college at all.
Going to a public university has made me, personally, a much stronger Catholic. It is maybe the strongest my Faith has ever been. Public universities are not bad -- it is the "Catholic" universities one must avoid.
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The OP did not say anything about sending her kids to public school. IMO, these days Catholic parents who send their children to public school are sending their children directly to demonic indoctrination and as such, are certainly guilty of committing a very grave sin for sending their innocent children into an environment of spiritual (and mental) murder.
The same must be said of those parents who send, or otherwise approve of their children going to college whether they live on campus or not. Parents will be held fully responsible before God for the damage done to their children, hence the entire family at public school, and also fully responsible for not doing what they should have done for their older children, namely, condemn and vehemently discourage them from attending college at all.
I really can't believe the backwards decline of mental state traditional Catholics. Apparently to an anonymous Catholic source, its a "mental murder" and mortal sins for the parents that don't home school or live within hours of a trad school. Most of the larger families that I know that have older children require both parents need to work to survive, even if its part time. There are some that don't.....the ones where the father is one of the only doctors in the parish, or successful business owner, etc. Coincidently those families that silently pay for that new ________ for the church or pay for the priest's plane ticket.
"Condemn and vehemently discourage them from attending college at all." Tell me HOW is this a practical plan for the future of tradition. Tell me how the next generation is going to buy, build, or renovate churches. To me this is a glaring sign of being welfare dependent. It may not be government welfare, but it is welfare from the wealthy benefactors that helped establish the SSPX or splinter branches. The money always seems to be there but it will run out one day.
Tell me how you are going to open up traditional Catholic schools. Tell me how are you going to have a qualified traditional Catholic home school curriculum without qualified people to sign off on it. There are many states that make it difficult to home school. Many of the parish schools receive flack from the cities that they are in. You want your child to see a traditional catholic doctor? You want to support a traditional Catholic business? You want Catholic politicians, a Catholic community?
God helps those that help themselves. Praying the rosary is great. You receive grace, now what are you going to do with it. Take action! To survive you need to have people in all levels of society. Take a page from the Mormons, they control their school districts in Utah and control what is taught. They have people with their doctorate in education. They have MD's, Dentists, contractors, and elected politicians! You want change, then take action and put your families in a position that you can influence change. I really can't stand head in the sand zealots.
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Catholics not getting involved in the world is a different matter than sending one's impressionable children (who don't have Catholic or any other kind of values yet!) to the proverbial slaughter.
Public schools are houses of indoctrination into the liberal (increasingly leftist) insanity of the modern world. Do you want your children to be taught that sodomy is OK? Do you want your children to realize they are transsɛҳuąƖ, thanks to the constant barrage of propaganda they receive at school? Do you want your girls to lose any feminine modesty (from being around immodestly dressed girls all day, and peer pressured into thinking THAT is normal and Mom & Dad are "weird")? Or for that matter, your girls will lose ANY femininity, since schools are completely feminist. Your kids will learn about White Guilt, the patriarchy, the oft-disproven myth of the "wage gap" but taught as fact, they will learn that masculinity is toxic, they will be taught Evolution, that the world is overpopulated and birth control is a virtue, they will receive co-ed, graphic Sex Education... -- I could go on for hours.
And let's not even start on Common Core! The whole point of public school is to give your children an education, right? Well then you better not send them to public school for that reason alone. Common Core is DESIGNED to create idiots who will go along with whatever their masters want. But even before Common Core, the type of education received at a Public School was NOT designed to create strong Catholics, ready to be leaders.
Anyone reading this who received their public school experience 15 or more years ago is NOT qualified to speak from a standpoint of Experience about Public Schools today, in 2018.
I went to public school myself. I graduated in 1995. But guess what? This isn't the 80s or the 90s anymore. When I was a kid, calling someone "gαy" was the ultimate insult. And there were only 2 sexes. Today, calling someone "gαy" would be a hate crime, a word that many consider actually harmful (as in, inflicting harm) upon another. Sticks and stones, what's that? You didn't have a sodomite character in every movie and TV show until sometime in the mid 2000's. And SJWs were just a "worst nightmare" for a few people with very vivid imaginations back in the 80's. And we didn't have cell phones or social media back then.
While it's true that older teens and young adults need to go out into the hostile modern world, well trained for battle, that doesn't mean that you should send your 5 year olds into the battlefield! That's ridiculous.
Before a certain age (the fine details of which are open for debate) -- let's say 12 years old at least -- near-complete sheltering is the only answer. No unsupervised Internet, no phone, constant supervision, vetting each and every friend they encounter, previewing anything they read or watch, etc.
Either you care about your childrens' souls or you don't. A young child is a clean slate. That is why it's worth giving up all kinds of Middle-Class luxuries to have my wife stay home and raise my children, rather than delegating that privilege to the State or local daycare.
Matthew
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And yes, God writes straight with crooked lines.
There are plenty of converts to the Faith (this pretty much includes converts from the protestant Novus Ordo) who became Catholic later in life. As a side note, it's interesting that converts from protestantism and converts from the Novus Ordo have almost the same background -- they were usually very worldly, they often have professional careers, and their lifestyle was mainstream all the way: 2 children, a house in the suburbs, etc.
These converts can't have more children since they are past childbearing years, but they can atone for their past sins by alms-giving and supporting the Church with their great wealth (which partly came through only having 1 or 2 children). There is certainly a place for such Catholics. But I wouldn't hold them up as some kind of ideal. They are just one kind of tool in God's tool box, with which He executes His Divine Providence.
Incidentally, such converts don't have as many choices as to how they will help out the Church. What are they going to do, teach Catechism classes? Sing Gregorian chant in the choir? Serve Mass? Provide altar servers from among your children? Usually late converts have grown children who stay Protestant or Novus Ordo, and are nowhere to be found in the Trad chapel in question.
It takes a certain humility to say "A person in my situation is CURRENTLY doing fine in God's eyes, but I am still damaged goods, not the ideal, so please don't follow my path."
I'm sorry if this isn't uber-simplistic "four legs good, two legs bad" for those with IQ's under 80. But the truth is the truth. Late converts aren't to be condemned, but we don't need to go out of our way to create more of them either. God's will is that we serve Him all of our days. He wants children, teens, and young men and women to be Trad Catholic; He wants ALL families to have a natural number of children, and to avoid corrupting them at a young age. If that means few-to-no awesome careers, then guess what? Few-to-no awesome careers for Catholics must be God's will.
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I'm understand 100% of what you are say Matthew, but all those things you mentioned will be there for them to find when they grow up to be 18 as well and in the future with their own children. I'm not advocating for public school. I grew up homeschooled early on. Due to situations later one toward my high school, it was no longer an option for my large family. I am however saying that most large traditional families that I have met and befriended in my travels are not middle class with luxuries to give up. Some are indebted to the schools that they have their children in, i.e. St. Mary's. In Phoenix for example if you have 3 or more students it will cost you $18,000 in tuition, plus all the extras. That is $1500 a month.
While all your points are correct, there are others in the parishes, online and on this forum who "Condemn and vehemently discourage them from attending college at all." You are right this is a separate issue from Catholics not getting involved in the world, but people are lumping everything together into one ideology. Cutting off their nose to spite their face. Just my two cents. I just don't see how is that a practical future outlook.
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I really can't believe the backwards decline of mental state traditional Catholics. Apparently to an anonymous Catholic source, its a "mental murder" and mortal sins for the parents that don't home school or live within hours of a trad school. Most of the larger families that I know that have older children require both parents need to work to survive, even if its part time. There are some that don't.....the ones where the father is one of the only doctors in the parish, or successful business owner, etc. Coincidently those families that silently pay for that new ________ for the church or pay for the priest's plane ticket.
"Condemn and vehemently discourage them from attending college at all." Tell me HOW is this a practical plan for the future of tradition. Tell me how the next generation is going to buy, build, or renovate churches. To me this is a glaring sign of being welfare dependent. It may not be government welfare, but it is welfare from the wealthy benefactors that helped establish the SSPX or splinter branches. The money always seems to be there but it will run out one day.
Tell me how you are going to open up traditional Catholic schools. Tell me how are you going to have a qualified traditional Catholic home school curriculum without qualified people to sign off on it. There are many states that make it difficult to home school. Many of the parish schools receive flack from the cities that they are in. You want your child to see a traditional catholic doctor? You want to support a traditional Catholic business? You want Catholic politicians, a Catholic community?
God helps those that help themselves. Praying the rosary is great. You receive grace, now what are you going to do with it. Take action! To survive you need to have people in all levels of society. Take a page from the Mormons, they control their school districts in Utah and control what is taught. They have people with their doctorate in education. They have MD's, Dentists, contractors, and elected politicians! You want change, then take action and put your families in a position that you can influence change. I really can't stand head in the sand zealots.
Yes, there is a backwards decline of mental state traditional Catholics, particularly when they think sending their children to houses of indoctrination into sin is okay because both parents have to work. Lord have mercy.
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Seriously, even if you can only homeschool (or "homeschool") for an hour a day in the evening, and your child ends up with a 4th grade education by age 18, that would be FAR BETTER and a highly desirable outcome rather than send him to public school and have him lose his soul for eternity.
Who cares if he has to work manual labor jobs and live in poverty all his life. LIFE IS SHORT. 70 or 80 years at most. That is just a blink compared to the vastness of eternity.
Since eternity is so vast, it is imperative that one's eternity be pleasant! Sacrifices sometimes must be made for this priority. The Saints all understood this.
Some Trads have totally lost their sense of priority. Do they forget what this whole life is about? They need to go on a single Ignatian retreat.
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Worldly people are stupid morons. They commit abortion because they want to have a newer car, or maybe an extra vacation or two.
When I hear Trads choosing public school (because "success") over the spiritual welfare of their children, I can't help but notice some of this idiocy has rubbed off on them.
How can a person weigh a temporary, material, flash-in-the-pan pleasure against another human life, or an individual's happy life in eternity?
It's utter foolishness.
Matthew
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The person I asked said they don't care about these kids.
Public schools are a renewal of the slaughter of the innocents:
Divini illius magistri (http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121929_divini-illius-magistri.html) §73:…and thus is renewed in a real and more terrible manner the slaughter of the Innocents.
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Talk about the slaughter of the innocents read the article below.
GENDER (https://www.lifesitenews.com/topics/gender)Mon Mar 26, 2018 - 3:59 pm EST
‘Gender-neutral’ Swedish preschools teach boys to wear dresses
Genderless (https://www.lifesitenews.com/tags/tag/genderless), Preschool (https://www.lifesitenews.com/tags/tag/preschool), Sweden (https://www.lifesitenews.com/tags/tag/sweden), Transgenderism (https://www.lifesitenews.com/tags/tag/transgenderism)
SWEDEN, March 26, 2018 (LifeSiteNews (http://www.lifesitenews.com/)) – Many government-funded Swedish preschools are “gender-neutral” and teach youngsters to reject their natural inclinations toward masculine or feminine activities, instead requiring them to do activities usually associated with the opposite sex.
“A preschool’s approach to gender has now become a common question before enrollment,” the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/24/world/europe/sweden-gender-neutral-preschools.html?smid=tw-nytimesworld&smtyp=cur) reported in a profile of these schools. Swedish teachers “are doing what they can to deconstruct” gender.
Since 1998, state curriculum has required teachers to “counteract traditional gender roles and gender patterns.”
Schools go about this in different ways, largely based on their leadership. Many Swedish children begin going to these programs when they are just one year old.
At the dawn of this massive social experiment, “Boys and girls at the preschools were separated for part of the day and coached in traits associated with the other gender. Boys massaged each other’s feet. Girls were led in barefoot walks in the snow, and told to throw open the window and scream.”
Now, preschools use a variety of techniques to eliminate gender from the classroom, and make girls act like boys and vice versa. They prevent kids from playing only with other boys or girls. Boys are sent to a play kitchen while girls practice shouting “No!” Preschools now have “gender specialists” on staff who can address problems like boys refusing to paint or dance, or students drawing eyelashes only on female subjects.
READ: Gov’t bans prayer to God; Christian preschool forced to thank ‘sun and rain’ for meals instead (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/christian-preschool-switches-to-thanking-the-sun-and-rain-before-meals-afte)
Boys may wear dresses, and the teachers celebrate when little girls become less feminine. A three-year-old boy named Otto has never heard from anyone, including “his grandparents, or babysitters, or fellow 3-year-olds,” that boys don’t wear dresses. His mother “would like this to continue as long as possible.”
One teacher celebrated how their lessons changed a “very girlie” girl into one whose parents complained she was “cheeky and defiant at home.”
A 26-year-old aspiring teacher in Sweden told the New York Times she “gets upset” when she sees her friends’ babies dressed in blue and pink. It feels like a “responsibility” for her to tell them that by dressing girls in pink and boys in blue, they are making a “mistake.”
The complete “de-sexing” of society will lead to much more powerful governments, former intelligence analyst Stella Morabito has repeatedly written as the transgender craze has taken off.
“If you abolish sex distinctions in law, you can abolish state recognition of biological family ties, and the state can regulate personal relationships and consolidate power as never before,” Morabito explained in Public Discourse (http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/05/17041/) in 2016.
She continued:
In a society de-sexed by law, would the state recognize your relationship as a husband or a wife? Mother or father? Daughter or son? Those are all sexed terms. A system that does not recognize the existence of male and female would be free to ignore the parentage of any child. You might be recognized as your child’s “legal guardian,” but only if the state agrees to that. Anybody can be a guardian to your child if the state decides it’s in the child’s “best interest.” In this vision, there is nothing to prevent the state from severing the mother-child bond (http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/05/a-little-mother-prevents-big-brother/) at will.
In such a scenario, the state controls all personal relationships right at their source: the biological family. The abolition of family autonomy (http://thefederalist.com/2014/04/09/bait-and-switch-how-same-sex-marriage-ends-marriage-and-family-autonomy/) would be complete, because the biological family would cease to be a default arrangement. The “family” would be whatever the state allows it to be. Again, in the de-sexed world of gender politics, all personal relationships end up controlled and regulated by the state.
There have been “occasional protests” from “traditionalists” to gender-neutral preschooling, according to the New York Times, but Sweden’s two biggest political parties support it.
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Sick.
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I'm understand 100% of what you are say Matthew, but all those things you mentioned will be there for them to find when they grow up to be 18 as well and in the future with their own children. I'm not advocating for public school. I grew up homeschooled early on. Due to situations later one toward my high school, it was no longer an option for my large family. I am however saying that most large traditional families that I have met and befriended in my travels are not middle class with luxuries to give up. Some are indebted to the schools that they have their children in, i.e. St. Mary's. In Phoenix for example if you have 3 or more students it will cost you $18,000 in tuition, plus all the extras. That is $1500 a month.
Just because there is a Trad school in your back yard doesn't mean that it's "accessible" to you. If they don't have any sort of low-income tuition assistance, you might just have to home school. Home school isn't free (although, that is possible), but it's a fraction of the cost of private school tuition.
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I'm on a group list of local homeschool families and while none of them are openly homeschooling for religious reasons, many of them nonetheless have a more committed attitude about it than many Trad Catholics. They're willing to give up many things -- including educational goals -- in order to keep their children out of public school. Take, for example, this quote from a mother of six:
I also work 2 days a week and homeschool 3 of my school age kids (6th, 4th and 2nd grade) in the other 3 days. They do some independent work while I’m working and honestly by Friday mama is too tired to do much school anyways. We do as much as we can each week and I’ve slowly but surely dropped the notion of having to get things done on any other timetable than our own. At the end of the day I don’t report to anyone and if we are behind or even ahead of the school year/grade it doesn’t really matter. I’d just do the best you can and do what’s best for your child and not worry about the rest. P.S. it’s taken me 4 years to actually come to this realization and even still I get stressed about a schedule and fitting it all in. Have to constantly remind myself it really doesn’t matter. Oh, and we generally school year round although lighter in summer...
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I went through the Chicago public school system, graduating high school in 1993. I must say, legitimately and honestly, that the vast majority of my education came from home.
I had seen some of the results of private schooling, both secular and religious and must say that I was quite displeased with them.
Therefore, when my turn first came to educate my first child I put my foot down on public education: Absolutely no way no how! We looked into some of the “Catholic” schools and were also sorely disappointed, even before my wife discovered traditional Catholicism. That left homeschooling, and while nervous about it we went with it, and I have to say it was the best decision we made.
I am blessed that my wife is able to do this so well. And it is a bit on the spendy side.
Having said all that, and having been in the position before, I would have my family live in a cardboard tent before I give my children over to public education—and that was my attitude when I was a “never catholic” guy. This holds true even more so now.
There are just some things that cannot be compromised on: my children’s souls are one of those things.
Let me say in addition this: I will not berate another person for their choices, as I am not in their shoes. But I do strongly recommend taking the firmest possible stance and be willing to make whatever sacrifices it takes, to provide your children’s souls the proper education.
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the vast majority of my education came from home.
The same for me, even though I went to Catholic schools as well as public school