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Author Topic: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife  (Read 182771 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
« Reply #390 on: October 31, 2017, 01:38:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on October 31, 2017, 12:54:00 PM
    Boohooo.

    Dude, do you want a hankie. Pwoor wittle girl likes to insult instead of thinking rationally like a man.

    Grow up!

    Do you beat your wife? 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #391 on: October 31, 2017, 01:49:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on October 31, 2017, 01:38:50 PM
    Do you beat your wife?

    Sounds like he's about 12 or 13 at the most.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #392 on: October 31, 2017, 02:56:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 31, 2017, 01:09:47 PM
    OK, so now you've shifted to saying that the honor simply makes it WORSE.  Before you said that honor had nothing to do with it.  Interesting how you keep having to shift your position.  Makes it obvious that it was never on solid ground to begin with.  And, when you shift your position, it's usually an indicator that you made up your mind from the outset due to various emotional reasons and are looking for reasons to justify your conclusion after the fact.
    I said that unauthorized hitting is worse when done to those to whom special honour is due.  I also said that questions of discipline are determined by authority rather than honour.  This is neither a contradiction nor a shift in position.  These are two complementary points.

    Your continued speculation about my emotional state and motivation are irrelevant as well as being classic examples of the ad hominem fallacy.  
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #393 on: October 31, 2017, 03:00:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on October 31, 2017, 02:56:57 PM
    I said that unauthorized hitting is worse when done to those to whom special honour is due.  I also said that questions of discipline are determined by authority rather than honour.  This is neither a contradiction nor a shift in position.  These are two complementary points.

    Your continued speculation about my emotional state and motivation are irrelevant as well as being classic examples of the ad hominem fallacy.  
    ... and, more broadly, genetic.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #394 on: October 31, 2017, 05:14:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on October 31, 2017, 05:12:00 PM

    Great to have such wonderful enlightened city folk to guide us all.

    Who ever said snobbery was dead among Catholics, look no further than the above.
    Possum? Ah shuvveld it muhself. It ain't rurnt, nur rurnt over, jest bounstit offin' uh truk yestiddy.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #395 on: October 31, 2017, 05:15:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on October 31, 2017, 05:13:17 PM
    I already explained that I am 12 and 1/2.

    Pay attention!
    A very precocious twelve...

    Funny guy.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #396 on: October 31, 2017, 08:32:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on October 31, 2017, 02:56:57 PM
    Your continued speculation about my emotional state and motivation are irrelevant as well as being classic examples of the ad hominem fallacy.  

    Correct.  It's not directly relevant to the argument.  But when someone shifts their arguments when defending a position, it's usually a sign that someone has emotionally invested in the conclusion and will defend it at all cost.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #397 on: October 31, 2017, 08:33:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on October 31, 2017, 12:47:16 PM
    When speaking of parents, Scripture gives an absolute command to honour.  When speaking of wives the instruction is qualified.

    No, this is simply not evident from the slightly different phraseology that's used.  To say "honor" someone and to "give the honor that's due" are equivalent.  Only God is owed absolute honor ... and all other honor is given proportionally.  What's at issue is whether the degree of honor owed to wives is sufficiently less than that owed to parents to justify the use of violence against them.  Consequently, this does not prove your thesis.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #398 on: October 31, 2017, 08:36:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on October 31, 2017, 12:49:57 PM
    But you still deserve a beating.

    Said by a coward hiding under the cloak of anonymity.  Say this to my face and you're the one who would get the beating.  I'm quite confident that I could take you down easily.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #399 on: October 31, 2017, 08:38:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on October 31, 2017, 05:06:09 PM
    distinguish beat from discipline.

    I don't beat.

    We're speaking of corporal punishment, aka beating.  Unless you do something unconventional.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #400 on: October 31, 2017, 08:39:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on October 31, 2017, 05:12:00 PM

    Great to have such wonderful enlightened city folk to guide us all.

    Who ever said snobbery was dead among Catholics, look no further than the above.

    Look at the original response.  It was one of the most childish meltdowns that I have ever witnessed here in CI.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #401 on: October 31, 2017, 08:43:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on October 31, 2017, 07:28:57 PM
    Unfortunately many trad Catholic men confuse being a manly man with being an arrogant bully.

    Indeed.  And this bullying arrogance is incompatible with the honor that husbands owe their wives.  Jaynek is only helping to fuel this degradation of women that is far too common among Traditional Catholic men.  She has nothing good to say about women and nothing at all to say about their right to being treated with honor by their husbands.  She's almost worse than the male misogynists here.  Misogyny is a very real thing among Trad Catholic men, but Jaynek refuses to acknowledge this.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #402 on: October 31, 2017, 09:47:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on October 31, 2017, 09:36:51 PM
    Too many Trad men are control freaks with very poor self control who think it is ok to lose their temper in an argument and do things like grab their wife by her throat and hold her up against a wall, shove her backwards through a screen door, grab her by the upper arms and violently shake her leaving bruises, shove her down on the couch by her face breaking her nose, etc.
    I'm sure these examples of Catholic manhood and wife discipline are found in the example of the Holy Family. /sarcasm
    That's really... specific.

    How do you know that...

    Quote
    Too many Trad men are control freaks with very poor self control who think it is ok to lose their temper in an argument and do things like grab their wife by her throat and hold her up against a wall, shove her backwards through a screen door, grab her by the upper arms and violently shake her leaving bruises, shove her down on the couch by her face breaking her nose, etc.
    ?

    That's quite the mind reading act you got going on there (ma'am?).

    Is there someone that you can talk to?
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #403 on: November 01, 2017, 06:59:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 31, 2017, 08:43:17 PM
    Indeed.  And this bullying arrogance is incompatible with the honor that husbands owe their wives.  Jaynek is only helping to fuel this degradation of women that is far too common among Traditional Catholic men.  She has nothing good to say about women and nothing at all to say about their right to being treated with honor by their husbands.  She's almost worse than the male misogynists here.  Misogyny is a very real thing among Trad Catholic men, but Jaynek refuses to acknowledge this.
    I have never witnessed misogyny among Trad Catholic men so, of course, I do not say that I have.  I know about my own marriage and have a few close trad friends who all seem to have good husbands.  The only other place I see Trad men is before and after Mass.  I have not seen anybody mistreating his wife there.  While I see people's forum posts, I am not going to jump to conclusions or try to read their minds from that.

    If there were a problem among Trad men, how would I know about it?  I am not prepared to accept it as a fact simply because Ladislaus claims it, especially not after seeing all the things he got wrong in this thread.  

    There is an entire feminist-dominated secular world telling us about women's rights (including their "right" to kill their children).  I see no reason why I should help with that.  The topic that is misunderstood and neglected is that of husband's authority / wife's submission.  It is quite reasonable that I prefer to focus on this.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #404 on: November 01, 2017, 07:17:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 01, 2017, 06:59:51 AM
    It is quite reasonable that I prefer to focus on this.
    Yes ma'am, it is; however as far as this thread is concerned, you passed "impasse" back at the pass, if you'll pardon a feeble attempt to defuse things.

    It has long been worse than fruitless, all summed.
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