Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Professional help scruples?  (Read 2767 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Professional help scruples?
« on: August 08, 2022, 09:43:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Hi everyone, I am the same poster who made the "scrupulous spouse" thread recently. This week during confession, my husband was told to seek professional help. We don't really know where to go from here. 

    I will start off by saying that the priest who gave him this advice has been incredibly helpful and my husband sees him as his spiritual advisor. Unfortunately this is probably the last time we will see him in person as he is moving to a new location, although we do have his number. My husband is hesitant to use it as he feels as though he is wasting the priests time. 

    Additionally, before reaching the conclusion that professional help was needed, he told my husband to try supplements or something to that effect. He did mention eastern medicine but we haven't gone that route as of yet. Supplements have been tried off and on, but only stuck to firmly for about 2 weeks at this point so I'm not sure how much time they've had to really start helping but I am also not sure that they really will "cure" the thing he has been struggling with. 

    He is incredibly anxious which funnels directly into scruples. He also is frequently "down". Low energy. Worried, unhappy. He goes to confession and then believes he has fallen back into mortal sin less than 10 min later most times. 

    We don't know much about "professional help" although I can say we don't just want someone who will put him on meds. Looking for advice on what to do next really. Catholic therapist maybe?? Money is fairly tight right now as well... 

    We live in the northern Idaho/north Eastern Washington area. If anyone has any suggestions, please reach out.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #1 on: August 08, 2022, 09:56:40 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The first thing I would do since that priest is leaving, is see another priest.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #2 on: August 08, 2022, 11:10:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I would start with nutritional supplements.  Being unhealthy can cause anxiety and depression which can fuel crazy thoughts.  He needs lots of Vitamin D (both pills and spending time in the the full, daytime sun, for 30+ minutes a day).  Cut out soft drinks, junk food and artificial sugars and alcohol and limit caffeine to early in the day.  Start eating good proteins like eggs, steak and fresh fish.  Low carb, high protein.  He needs lots of sleep to recharge - take melatonin to help sleep (...only if he can't get enough sun that day...if he gets enough sunshine, his body will naturally produce melatonin and he will sleep well).  Exercise, exercise, exercise.  Walk, run, etc.  Other vitamins to take - Vit C, Zinc, Selenium, Magnesium.  Other foods = lemon water, vegetable smoothies, good fats like olive oil, coconut oil or natural butter.

    And go watch YT videos from Dr Eric Berg.  He covers all this an more.  Keto Diet + vitamin supplements + exercise + sleep = cure.

    But a catholic counselor wouldn't hurt.  I'm not discounting this.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #3 on: August 08, 2022, 11:12:59 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Does he work? 

    Try hiking and praying rosary in a state park.  

    Change diet. Stop over eating.  Stop the junk food, energy drinks, cakes, junk food.   Eat healthy food such as more veggies fruits and clean organic meat.  

    If you seek a professional, make sure they aren’t liberals. Try a Christian conservative person. 


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #4 on: August 08, 2022, 11:14:00 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I would start with nutritional supplements.  Being unhealthy can cause anxiety and depression which can fuel crazy thoughts.  He needs lots of Vitamin D (both pills and spending time in the the full, daytime sun, for 30+ minutes a day).  Cut out soft drinks, junk food and artificial sugars and alcohol and limit caffeine to early in the day.  Start eating good proteins like eggs, steak and fresh fish.  Low carb, high protein.  He needs lots of sleep to recharge - take melatonin to help sleep (...only if he can't get enough sun that day...if he gets enough sunshine, his body will naturally produce melatonin and he will sleep well).  Exercise, exercise, exercise.  Walk, run, etc.  Other vitamins to take - Vit C, Zinc, Selenium, Magnesium.  Other foods = lemon water, vegetable smoothies, good fats like olive oil, coconut oil or natural butter.

    And go watch YT videos from Dr Eric Berg.  He covers all this an more.  Keto Diet + vitamin supplements + exercise + sleep = cure.

    But a catholic counselor wouldn't hurt.  I'm not discounting this.
    cool.  We think alike. 


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #5 on: August 08, 2022, 11:50:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Does he work?

    Try hiking and praying rosary in a state park. 

    Change diet. Stop over eating.  Stop the junk food, energy drinks, cakes, junk food.  Eat healthy food such as more veggies fruits and clean organic meat. 

    If you seek a professional, make sure they aren’t liberals. Try a Christian conservative person.
    He is out of work right now but is doing a lot of work outside and around the house to make up for it. 

    He does really go for the junk food lol...

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41899
    • Reputation: +23942/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #6 on: August 08, 2022, 03:33:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, for scruples, priests ARE professional help.

    If there's some other anxiety issue, that's separate.  But many scrupulous people don't have generalized anxiety, but their anxiety is limited to the scruples.  Or else the scruples is the primary cause and then works its way out into a generalized anxiety.

    If seeking professional help, you have to be careful ... as there are a lot of bad psychologists out there.  I know a Traditional Catholic one in the Akron OH area.  If the anxiety is largely about morals, the non-Catholic ones would try to promote excessive laxity.

    Offline Mithrandylan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4452
    • Reputation: +5061/-436
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #7 on: August 08, 2022, 03:45:38 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • He is out of work right now but is doing a lot of work outside and around the house to make up for it.

    He does really go for the junk food lol...
    .
    It is difficult for men to be without work. Being without work can result in temptations toward purposelessness and other conditions that generate anxiety, uncertainty, and hopelessness. 
    .
    Aside from finding work, I second (third) the dietary/supplementary suggestions. Have him supplement vitamin D and cut out junk food. We are body and soul, and body problems often affect the soul just as soul problems can affect the body. 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #8 on: August 08, 2022, 04:06:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, for scruples, priests ARE professional help.

    If there's some other anxiety issue, that's separate.  But many scrupulous people don't have generalized anxiety, but their anxiety is limited to the scruples.  Or else the scruples is the primary cause and then works its way out into a generalized anxiety.

    If seeking professional help, you have to be careful ... as there are a lot of bad psychologists out there.  I know a Traditional Catholic one in the Akron OH area.  If the anxiety is largely about morals, the non-Catholic ones would try to promote excessive laxity.
    He definitely has anxiety beyond the scruples. And yes, that's one of our big worries... It seems that it would be very hard to find a psychologist that would actually give Catholic advice. From what I have read, OCD is treated by forcing a person to just deal with the things that make them worry. Obviously you have to be very careful doing that when sin is a concern...

    As far as the priest goes he has a really hard time discerning when the advice the priests have given him applies. "They told me X when this happened before, but this time it is slightly different so I think I'm in sin" is basically how it goes... Also he tends to forget previous advice when he is busy worrying about his newest concern. The anxiety is really through the roof if I am being honest. He has been dealing with this in different degrees of severity for probably a couple of years or more now. 

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #9 on: August 08, 2022, 04:09:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .
    It is difficult for men to be without work. Being without work can result in temptations toward purposelessness and other conditions that generate anxiety, uncertainty, and hopelessness.
    .
    Aside from finding work, I second (third) the dietary/supplementary suggestions. Have him supplement vitamin D and cut out junk food. We are body and soul, and body problems often affect the soul just as soul problems can affect the body.
    He does want to get back to work, but this was a major problem even when he was working. Some days he had to miss work due to the stress... He was going to confession multiple times a week and panicking about it when he couldn't go. Now he can only go once a week. 

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #10 on: August 08, 2022, 05:03:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Magnesium

    Strenuous exercise using weight (nothing fancy or expensive required, I used to use bags of water softener salt)

    If he can't find work, volunteer. There are always people that need help. (elderly or disabled or poor neighbors, farmers, small businesses-he may learn some skills that will be of value if nothing else) Just find something that forces one to think about someone else instead of the constant inward focus.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #11 on: August 08, 2022, 05:55:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The rector at the SSPX seminary frequently urges peacefulness during the spiritual conferences he gives to the seminarians. Peace can more or less make us invisible to the devil, and gives us an advantage over temptation which gives rise to agitation. Peace is obtained by praying for it, and by continuously exercising it in both mind and action. I have some trouble with anxiety and agitation, so I deliberately take great care to stay peaceful and careful when working to prevent a buildup of stress. It takes much effort and practice on my part to dissipate stress in stressful situations, but I have eventually become sufficiently good at it, though I may look a bit awkward. I no longer work quite as fast as I used to, so I don't get so worked up mentally. Still, there are some work related stressors that just can't be overcome.

    Mental discipline goes a long way in solving many problems, and practice makes perfect. Thinking too much can cause stress and anxiety. He needs to practice shutting his thoughts off, or cutting short the beginnings of unnecessary trains of thought and paying no more attention to them. Spend much time trying to relax: listen to gentle music, learn to play an instrument, find a hobby out in nature (mine is taking pictures of very very small things; which is challenging, but exposes much more beauty in nature), spend an hour in silence staring up at the stars, go night fishing without expecting to catch anything. It is important to deliberately make silence in the mind, and though it may seem impossible, those efforts must be maintained to be successful. Just don't think, and let any sound go in one ear and out the other without any active thought. See things without paying any attention to them.
    Any problems, such as success in the world (work, earning money, health, housing, ect) need to be thoroughly and confidently placed in the hands of God our father, who knows what we need and gives us good things, through Mary. Let his problems be God's problems, just seek first the kingdom of heaven. Pray for the graces to overcome these difficulties, and have the humility to ask others to pray for you, especially innocent children whose prayers, I assume, may be more favorable in God's sight.

    I find taking one capsule of St. John's Wort as needed helps with peace of mind and good mood. I'll take one before fast paced hard work, so I'm not so wound up during and afterward.

    Try to schedule a time to invite the priest over, so he can better guide his lifestyle. Obeying a spiritual director may reduce the chance for someone to fall into sin due to the obedience aspect. It's good to take notes too, so he can re-read the advice the priest game him. I find it most frustrating when I forget advice or forget my resolutions when I most need to remember. That's just a lack of effort on my part from not writing things down and studying them a couple times per day (where's the chest beating mea culpa smiley?).

    If his duties and finances allow, maybe an Ignatian retreat or a vacation to a monastery or both would be beneficial for peace and strength of mind and soul.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41899
    • Reputation: +23942/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #12 on: August 08, 2022, 07:25:20 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • He definitely has anxiety beyond the scruples. And yes, that's one of our big worries... It seems that it would be very hard to find a psychologist that would actually give Catholic advice. From what I have read, OCD is treated by forcing a person to just deal with the things that make them worry. Obviously you have to be very careful doing that when sin is a concern...

    As far as the priest goes he has a really hard time discerning when the advice the priests have given him applies. "They told me X when this happened before, but this time it is slightly different so I think I'm in sin" is basically how it goes... Also he tends to forget previous advice when he is busy worrying about his newest concern. The anxiety is really through the roof if I am being honest. He has been dealing with this in different degrees of severity for probably a couple of years or more now.

    Evidently this priest has not been properly trained to handle scruples.  For the scrupulous, priests do not give "advice".  They command them and bind them under obedience NOT to apply their own judgment, rather than give them advice to which they then apply their own discernment.  This approach was used by my confessor at STAS to almost instantly cure me of scruples, and it's the same approach that was laid down in that definitive book written in the 1940s by the Jesuit priest.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #13 on: August 08, 2022, 08:38:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Evidently this priest has not been properly trained to handle scruples.  For the scrupulous, priests do not give "advice".  They command them and bind them under obedience NOT to apply their own judgment, rather than give them advice to which they then apply their own discernment.  This approach was used by my confessor at STAS to almost instantly cure me of scruples, and it's the same approach that was laid down in that definitive book written in the 1940s by the Jesuit priest.
    Yes, I have been hoping at least one of the priests he has interacted with would take that route, but none have. If I had to guess I would say I believe that he has been to at least 7 different priests in different locations between CMRI and SSPX. Likely more than that. Multiple priests have noticed that he is confessing non-sins. I am not sure how many have identified his scruples specifically but at the very least the one priest who he sees the most often told him that he has an acute case of scrupulosity. 

    Is there a possibility that they are hesitant to put him under pain of sin due to lack of jurisdiction?? I have wondered this for a while. 

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Professional help scruples?
    « Reply #14 on: August 08, 2022, 09:07:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, I have been hoping at least one of the priests he has interacted with would take that route, but none have. If I had to guess I would say I believe that he has been to at least 7 different priests in different locations between CMRI and SSPX. Likely more than that. Multiple priests have noticed that he is confessing non-sins. I am not sure how many have identified his scruples specifically but at the very least the one priest who he sees the most often told him that he has an acute case of scrupulosity.

    Is there a possibility that they are hesitant to put him under pain of sin due to lack of jurisdiction?? I have wondered this for a while.
    Based on experience I'd guess that they probably have commanded him not to rely on his own judgement, but he doesn't WANT to hear so he doesn't. After being ignored multiple times most priests will just send you to someone else. 
    Your husband needs to be "hit along side the head with a 2X4" just to get his attention and there are few priests that will do that in this day and age.