Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Which SSPX Schools Force Dialogue Mass on Children?  (Read 649 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Anonymous

  • Guest
Re: Which SSPX Schools Force Dialogue Mass on Children?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2019, 04:08:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The ‘Dialogue Mass’ is a misnomer 

    As even the most unlettered pre-Vatican II Catholic knew, in the Mass the priest directs himself to God, not to us. The power of the ritual to convey this impression was evident in the traditional rite without any need for further explanation. 

    There was its sacred atmosphere, reverence for the Blessed Sacrament, strict adherence to the rubrics, its own liturgical language used by the ministers at the altar, the chanting of the choir, the silence of the congregation and the fact that the priest faces God, not the congregation.

    The people were never intended to be in a conversation with the priest who acts in persona Christi
    This last point, incidentally, poses a conundrum for some modern Catholics attending the traditional Mass: they are genuinely mystified as to why the priest has his back turned to them when, in their estimation, he is supposed to direct himself to them. What they fail to realize is that the “dialogue” is not a conversation between priest and people, but a series of prayers addressed to God by the priest acting in the person of Christ, the High Priest. 

    The fact that some of the priest’s prayers require a response does not indicate a verbal role for the laity. Of course, members of the congregation may follow the responses in their missals. But these prayers are meant to be alternated between the priest and the ministers at the altar – or, in the case of a sung Mass, the choir, which likewise exercise a clerical role, as Pope Pius X had explained. 

    Thus, no role was envisaged for the congregation to sing or speak during the Mass. Even the altar boys perform their tasks only by indult and are attired in choir dress as a sign that they are substituting, out of necessity, for clerics in the sanctuary, not for the laity in the pews. 

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Re: Which SSPX Schools Force Dialogue Mass on Children?
    « Reply #16 on: August 16, 2019, 04:12:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The ‘Dialogue Mass’ is a misnomer

    As even the most unlettered pre-Vatican II Catholic knew, in the Mass the priest directs himself to God, not to us. The power of the ritual to convey this impression was evident in the traditional rite without any need for further explanation.

    There was its sacred atmosphere, reverence for the Blessed Sacrament, strict adherence to the rubrics, its own liturgical language used by the ministers at the altar, the chanting of the choir, the silence of the congregation and the fact that the priest faces God, not the congregation.

    The people were never intended to be in a conversation with the priest who acts in persona Christi
    This last point, incidentally, poses a conundrum for some modern Catholics attending the traditional Mass: they are genuinely mystified as to why the priest has his back turned to them when, in their estimation, he is supposed to direct himself to them. What they fail to realize is that the “dialogue” is not a conversation between priest and people, but a series of prayers addressed to God by the priest acting in the person of Christ, the High Priest.

    The fact that some of the priest’s prayers require a response does not indicate a verbal role for the laity. Of course, members of the congregation may follow the responses in their missals. But these prayers are meant to be alternated between the priest and the ministers at the altar – or, in the case of a sung Mass, the choir, which likewise exercise a clerical role, as Pope Pius X had explained.

    Thus, no role was envisaged for the congregation to sing or speak during the Mass. Even the altar boys perform their tasks only by indult and are attired in choir dress as a sign that they are substituting, out of necessity, for clerics in the sanctuary, not for the laity in the pews.
    Even notice how your SSPX priest prays the Mass very loudly now?
    Does he resent having his back to the people?
    20 years ago, the low Masses were saif "submissa voce" (in a quiet voice).
    Now days, it is though the SSPX priest feels the need to say the prayers loud enough for all to hear them, as though they would not be participating if they coud not hear the prayers.  
    Of course, if the people cannot hear the prayers, they cannot make the responses!!
    Hence the irritatingly loud readings at the altar, which spoil the sacred solemnity and vulgarize the Mass, just as Dr. Byrne says above.
    Slowly, slowly, we are marching to BXVI/Francis's hybrid: a 1965 dialogue Mass which will be praised as the "true Mass of V2."


    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Re: Which SSPX Schools Force Dialogue Mass on Children?
    « Reply #17 on: August 16, 2019, 07:36:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • Quote
    The nationality of the Rector doesn't determine the catholicity of the Seminary, especially because it was founded by a Frenchman with a seminary in the French-speaking cantons of Switzerland — places that had the Dialogue Mass for a very long time.


    The nationality of the rector would not determine the Catholicity of the seminary if the rector spoke English and respected the customs of the country, which Bp. Willamson did and the new rector does not.

    The overriding precept when it comes to the mass is to follow the local custom of the country. If every traveling priest forced the congregation to follow his country’s custom, it would be chaos and anarchy.

    I know the customs of my country, I do not know the customs of a canton in Switzerland, the “permanent” changes made by a visiting priest coukld be his own invention, or it could be a custom of his country, we have no way of knowing, nor do we have to know the customs of every country. THAT is why the Church always respected the local customs.

    The SSPX is a priestly union, not an order, they do not have their own rite, it matters little if the founder was from France, Germany, Italy, or Nigeria, the local custom of the USA is the overriding precept. The Dialogue Mass is not the custom in the USA.

    Besides, France has many other customs, like less than 4% of Catholics go to mass, and among the SSPX trads, they do not do the Leonine Prayers, over 50% of the ladies dod not wear vales, few parents have more than two children, they dress like anyone else of the world…… Not exactly a good example of a place to emulate.

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Re: Which SSPX Schools Force Dialogue Mass on Children?
    « Reply #18 on: August 16, 2019, 07:43:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Even notice how your SSPX priest prays the Mass very loudly now?
    Does he resent having his back to the people?
    20 years ago, the low Masses were saif "submissa voce" (in a quiet voice).
    Now days, it is though the SSPX priest feels the need to say the prayers loud enough for all to hear them, as though they would not be participating if they coud not hear the prayers.  
    Is that bad? If it is bad I am partly to blame because I like it when I can hear the prayers, except for the quiet parts like the Canon. I even once complimented Father Purdy for how he said Mass because I could hear the prayers and follow along better. Not all the faithful are good enough at sign language to follow the Mass without hearing the priest's voice. And he said that Father Wegner sent out an email to thee SSPX priests urging them to speak loud enough so that the faithful could hear except for the silent parts like the canon and the consecration. So yes, there was a suggestion to pray the Mass a little louder so that t would be audible. Father Purdy even showed me the email on his iPhone.

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Re: Which SSPX Schools Force Dialogue Mass on Children?
    « Reply #19 on: August 16, 2019, 07:44:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The above post was by Matto. And I don't like the dialogue Mass and we do not have one at my chapel.


    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Re: Which SSPX Schools Force Dialogue Mass on Children?
    « Reply #20 on: August 16, 2019, 08:10:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Is that bad? If it is bad I am partly to blame because I like it when I can hear the prayers, except for the quiet parts like the Canon. I even once complimented Father Purdy for how he said Mass because I could hear the prayers and follow along better. Not all the faithful are good enough at sign language to follow the Mass without hearing the priest's voice. And he said that Father Wegner sent out an email to thee SSPX priests urging them to speak loud enough so that the faithful could hear except for the silent parts like the canon and the consecration. So yes, there was a suggestion to pray the Mass a little louder so that t would be audible. Father Purdy even showed me the email on his iPhone.
    And there you have it!!

    Offline Alexandria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2557
    • Reputation: +423/-73
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Which SSPX Schools Force Dialogue Mass on Children?
    « Reply #21 on: August 21, 2019, 01:13:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1

  • I used to watch that show when Julius Smetona was the host a few decades ago.

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16