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Author Topic: Pre-Bugnini Maundy Thursday (FSSP)  (Read 7605 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Pre-Bugnini Maundy Thursday (FSSP)
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 09:23:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 01, 2021, 08:19:05 AM
    I don't care for the times on these.  I do believe that they got the times right in the 1955 "reform".

    I did the 8AM Easter Vigil once at an SSPV chapel (actually sang for it) ... and then everyone is saying Happy Easter at 11:30 AM.  Our Lord rose on the THIRD day, not the second.  And half of the ceremony, involving the transition from darkness to light, doesn't even make sense during broad daylight.

    Easter Vigil (as were most vigils) was undoubtedly a Liturgy that went through the night leading up to Easter Mass at dawn ... thus the many readings and psalms, etc.
    I was talking with a very close 80 year old trad friend who said she only remembers the Easter Vigil being completely done by, or just past noon on Holy Saturday when she was younger. 
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

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    Re: Pre-Bugnini Maundy Thursday (FSSP)
    « Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 10:09:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 01, 2021, 09:05:26 AM
    No, it does not; the very word vigil refers to staying up overnight on the night before.  Clearly the light and darkness imagery was meant to go through the night and into the following morning.  It's well docuмented how in the early Church, the Catholics "watched" through the night up until dawn when the feast day itself was celebrated.  And despite the people being "misinformed", the Vigil leads right into the first Mass of Easter ... on Holy Saturday morning.
    Sorry, but you are mistaken as to the meaning of the term “vigil.”  This article can help you: http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2020/06/the-vigil-of-nativity-of-st-john-baptist.html?m=1#.YGXhiiROklQ
    Liturgically, when there is a vigil day on the calendar, it is a vigil all day, not only the nighttime hours.
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    Re: Pre-Bugnini Maundy Thursday (FSSP)
    « Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 11:10:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 01, 2021, 08:19:05 AM
    I don't care for the times on these.  I do believe that they got the times right in the 1955 "reform".

    I did the 8AM Easter Vigil once at an SSPV chapel (actually sang for it) ... and then everyone is saying Happy Easter at 11:30 AM.  Our Lord rose on the THIRD day, not the second.  And half of the ceremony, involving the transition from darkness to light, doesn't even make sense during broad daylight.

    Easter Vigil (as were most vigils) was undoubtedly a Liturgy that went through the night leading up to Easter Mass at dawn ... thus the many readings and psalms, etc.
    I couldn't agree more.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pre-Bugnini Maundy Thursday (FSSP)
    « Reply #18 on: April 01, 2021, 01:01:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on April 01, 2021, 10:09:29 AM
    Sorry, but you are mistaken as to the meaning of the term “vigil.”  This article can help you: http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2020/06/the-vigil-of-nativity-of-st-john-baptist.html?m=1#.YGXhiiROklQ
    Liturgically, when there is a vigil day on the calendar, it is a vigil all day, not only the nighttime hours.

    No, I'm not mistaken.  I've read enough of the Church Fathers to know what they mean by a Vigil.  Simply because it became redefined (i.e. extended) later to refer to the entire preceding day, this does not mean that the Vigil Liturgy was celebrated on Saturday morning.  Vigil in Latin referred specifically to an overnight watch (staying awake at night).
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    Re: Pre-Bugnini Maundy Thursday (FSSP)
    « Reply #19 on: April 01, 2021, 01:11:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 01, 2021, 01:01:00 PM
    No, I'm not mistaken.  I've read enough of the Church Fathers to know what they mean by a Vigil.  Simply because it became redefined (i.e. extended) later to refer to the entire preceding day, this does not mean that the Vigil Liturgy was celebrated on Saturday morning.  Vigil in Latin referred specifically to an overnight watch (staying awake at night).
    Who’s talking about the Church Fathers?
    I’m talking about the liturgical meaning of the term “vigil.”
    Moreover, who ever denied that in the early Church, there was a vigil fire at night?
    “Keeping a vigil” (ie., a pius devotional practice”) does not have the same meaning as a liturgical vigil (ie., a day of preparation prior to a designated feast).
    Consequently, it is not out of place to have a paschal fire in the daytime, as the daytime is still part of the vigil.
    More than this, appealing to the practice of the primitive Church in order to overthrow hundreds of years of organic liturgical development is condemned by Pius XII (archaeologism).  
    The Novus Ordo could be defended using the same principle.
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