Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Mithrandylan on July 05, 2023, 11:22:25 PM
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Poll inspired by the very interesting "Psychology of Celibacy" thread. The poll isn't perfect, but I'd like to get a sense of CI members family lives and see if there are any interesting patterns. Results are visible after you vote.
It would be interesting to know how long people have been married, if they have children (and how many), etc., but I didn't see a way to get that data without having an unfeasible amount of options.
Hope the conflation of mixed marriages and unhappy marriages doesn't upset anyone. :)
Posted in anonymous in case people want to elaborate.
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I am happily married mother of 3 adult offspring.
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If there were an option for happily unmarried... :laugh1:
I have a lot to work on -- financially, spiritually, etc., before considering myself even remotely ready. So I will happily take up that cross and work on it.
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Ope, that was me. Forgot to click the not anonymous button.
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None exactly apply to me, as there was no option for widowed. I checked: "Female, unmarried, do not expect to marry", but I don't know if that will skew the info you're looking for. FWIW, I was happily married.
"Posted in anonymous in case people want to elaborate."
I appreciate that.
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I just want to say that create a truly good poll takes more work than 99% of people appreciate. It's harder than it looks.
This poll wasn't bad, but yeah -- you don't want to lump in widowed with "divorced/separated" nor do you really want to lump it in with those who have given up on finding a spouse, etc. Not if you want to do anything interesting or draw ANY useful conclusions with your data.
Mithrandylan is a young man -- apparently he doesn't give much thought to the end phase of life. He probably doesn't have many deceased or widowed friends either. Just saying. Which reminds me: about 90% of people have difficulty escaping their own subjective and personal biases -- i.e., difficulty placing themselves in others shoes, especially automatically or on a routine basis. That kind of objectivity is RARE in my experience. It is what it is.
Happily married father of 9 here.
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I just want to say that create a truly good poll takes more work than 99% of people appreciate. It's harder than it looks.
This poll wasn't bad, but yeah -- you don't want to lump in widowed with "divorced/separated" nor do you really want to lump it in with those who have given up on finding a spouse, etc. Not if you want to do anything interesting or draw ANY useful conclusions with your data.
Happily married father of 9 here.
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As soon as I posted it I regretted not having a widowed option. However, I expect the amount of widowed to be low enough that a quick comment in the thread should be clarifying enough.
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Divorced/separated would be "unhappily married."
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I just want to say that create a truly good poll takes more work than 99% of people appreciate. It's harder than it looks.
This poll wasn't bad, but yeah -- you don't want to lump in widowed with "divorced/separated" nor do you really want to lump it in with those who have given up on finding a spouse, etc. Not if you want to do anything interesting or draw ANY useful conclusions with your data.
Mithrandylan is a young man -- apparently he doesn't give much thought to the end phase of life. He probably doesn't have many deceased or widowed friends either. Just saying. Which reminds me: about 90% of people have difficulty escaping their own subjective and personal biases -- i.e., difficulty placing themselves in others shoes, especially automatically or on a routine basis. That kind of objectivity is RARE in my experience. It is what it is.
Happily married father of 9 here.
Oh, thanks for adding the widowed option!
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Ope, that was me. Forgot to click the not anonymous button.
A thumb up for your humble attitude. God bless you.
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There isn't an option in the poll for my situation, but my situation may be a bit unusual. I'm happily married to a non-Catholic. Married for 42 years so far. My situation is far from ideal, but it's the situation that Our Lord has placed me in, so I make the best of it.
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Male.
Unhapply married to a Catholic.
One child.
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Single, hermit-like Polish rooted bearly human male :cowboy:
Tried in the places I could to fulfill a vocation within Traditional Catholicism. It got to the point where there was place subjectively to fulfill my vocation and my age and health further ruled out any possibility. I never had the calling to married life, and again after all the vocational forays were exhausted, age and health firmly closed that door.
I wish I could retire as a layman to a monastery or religious house and live out the remainder of my days as a lay apostle. :pray:
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Happily married!
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Happily married for over 20 years!
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Happily divorced
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Happily divorced?
In the eyes of God you're still married. There is no divorce once a valid marriage has taken place, I hate to tell you.
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Happily divorced?
In the eyes of God you're still married. There is no divorce once a valid marriage has taken place, I hate to tell you.
Married to non-Catholic in my backyard.....happily divorced :laugh1:
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Married to non-Catholic in my backyard.....happily divorced :laugh1:
It's not funny. Marriage in your backyard is also valid.
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It's not funny. Marriage in your backyard is also valid.
No, a marriage in a backyard is USUALLY invalid because this will USUALLY involve defect of form, i.e., one or both persons are Catholic and are attempting marriage before a non-Catholic witness without dispensation and will often involve invalid consent and/or vows.
These days many divorced Catholics will say that they received an "anullment" when , in fact, what was received was an ecclesiastical acknowledgement of defect of form.
On the flip side, defect of form, while invalidating, can be easily corrected through a process of sanation (regularising the marriage back to its defective start) or convalidation (having the parties presently exchange proper consent and vows before a proper ecclesiastical witness).
A decree of nullity (or recognition of validity) is a canonical ruling in a formal matrimony case before a tribunal. A decree of defect of form does not require a formal matrimonal case and can usually be determined prima facie by the civil marriage license or non-Catholic wedding certificate.
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No, a marriage in a backyard is USUALLY invalid because this will USUALLY involve defect of form, i.e., one or both persons are Catholic and are attempting marriage before a non-Catholic witness without dispensation and will often involve invalid consent and/or vows.
These days many divorced Catholics will say that they received an "anullment" when , in fact, what was received was an ecclesiastical acknowledgement of defect of form.
On the flip side, defect of form, while invalidating, can be easily corrected through a process of sanation (regularising the marriage back to its defective start) or convalidation (having the parties presently exchange proper consent and vows before a proper ecclesiastical witness).
A decree of nullity (or recognition of validity) is a canonical ruling in a formal matrimony case before a tribunal. A decree of defect of form does not require a formal matrimonal case and can usually be determined prima facie by the civil marriage license or non-Catholic wedding certificate.
This was my post.
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No, a marriage in a backyard is USUALLY invalid because this will USUALLY involve defect of form, i.e., one or both persons are Catholic and are attempting marriage before a non-Catholic witness without dispensation and will often involve invalid consent and/or vows.
These days many divorced Catholics will say that they received an "anullment" when , in fact, what was received was an ecclesiastical acknowledgement of defect of form.
On the flip side, defect of form, while invalidating, can be easily corrected through a process of sanation (regularising the marriage back to its defective start) or convalidation (having the parties presently exchange proper consent and vows before a proper ecclesiastical witness).
A decree of nullity (or recognition of validity) is a canonical ruling in a formal matrimony case before a tribunal. A decree of defect of form does not require a formal matrimonal case and can usually be determined prima facie by the civil marriage license or non-Catholic wedding certificate.
Yep...that's why I'm still happily divorced. BTW, I was the defendant in the divorce.
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Never married, NO religious 1987-2004. Do not expect to marry. Blessed to have found Tradition.
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Single, hermit-like Polish rooted bearly human male :cowboy:
Tried in the places I could to fulfill a vocation within Traditional Catholicism. It got to the point where there was place subjectively to fulfill my vocation and my age and health further ruled out any possibility. I never had the calling to married life, and again after all the vocational forays were exhausted, age and health firmly closed that door.
I wish I could retire as a layman to a monastery or religious house and live out the remainder of my days as a lay apostle. :pray:
Hmm, similar female here. I guess one might call me a hermitess, only half Polish! The other half Irish. Ending my days in a convent or truly Catholic home would suit me fine. But if history is any guide, God always changes my goals, no matter how well planned. So it’s whatever He wants.
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Married female, 17 years, with 13 children.
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For 43 years i was married to a wife sent to me by God. We reared two boys and three girls. Three girls married now with seven grandchildren. All 5 go to TLM thanks to the example they got from their mother (and father). Since my Liz died I am heartbroken and the longer it goes on the more I miss her. I am waiting to die when God wills it. This has led me deeper into my faith, to make sure I get to heaven and to hope that God will join us again in heaven. Jesus has his mother and foster father so I hope heaven will bring saved families back together for all eternity.
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Looks like there's lots of males and females who describe themselves as "unmarried, do not expect to marrry."
For those who describe themselves thusly, simply for lack of prospects, perhaps some of these people should reach out to each other?
At the moment, there are 11 males and 8 females who describe themselves as such.
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Looks like there's lots of males and females who describe themselves as "unmarried, do not expect to marrry."
For those who describe themselves thusly, simply for lack of prospects, perhaps some of these people should reach out to each other?
At the moment, there are 11 males and 8 females who describe themselves as such.
I check "do not expect to marry" because I think it means more like if you're engaged or at least in courtship now, and I'm not.
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Looks like there's lots of males and females who describe themselves as "unmarried, do not expect to marrry."
For those who describe themselves thusly, simply for lack of prospects, perhaps some of these people should reach out to each other?
At the moment, there are 11 males and 8 females who describe themselves as such.
Female, do not expect to marry. Too old, 67, health issues.
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I suppose I’m statistically abnormal since I was widowed at age 43. I have 9 children; youngest is 3. I’m curious to read the original post that inspired this poll to possibly understand the motives behind it…
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I suppose I’m statistically abnormal since I was widowed at age 43. I have 9 children; youngest is 3. I’m curious to read the original post that inspired this poll to possibly understand the motives behind it…
If your youngest is only three, are you open in the future to marrying? My sympathy to you and your husband.
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I suppose I’m statistically abnormal since I was widowed at age 43. I have 9 children; youngest is 3. I’m curious to read the original post that inspired this poll to possibly understand the motives behind it…
This is the thread referenced in the OP
https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/the-psychology-of-celibacy/msg891587/#msg891587
transcribed text
https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/the-psychology-of-celibacy/msg892887/#msg892887
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If your youngest is only three, are you open in the future to marrying? My sympathy to you and your husband.
I’m certainly open to whatever God has in store. If remarrying is His Will for me (and my young family), I trust He will send a good candidate.
This is the thread referenced in the OP
https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/the-psychology-of-celibacy/msg891587/#msg891587
transcribed text
https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/the-psychology-of-celibacy/msg892887/#msg892887
Thanks!
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Wow, 64 votes. I'd say that's a decent sample. CI polls often struggle to get 30 votes.
One limitation of the poll is that we don't know the activity levels of the voters. How many are active users (defining "active" users is difficult too) and how many are lurkers who never post?
Another limitation is that of the married, there is no way to distinguish between newlyweds and couples in their 70s whose children have long since grown and left the home (not to mention all of the options in between these extremes: middle aged couples without children, young couples with MANY children, etc.).
No poll is perfect, but I think this one is decent.
I have long wondered about the nature of online communities, and of tradcat ones in particular.
I've had my suspicions for a while that at least so far as active userbases are concerned, forums select for lonely people. The poll results confirm this, although the picture is not as bleak as I anticipated. *Almost* half of the voters described themselves as happily married (which I would code as "not lonely"-- obviously it's not THAT simple since married couples might be lonely otherwise, and single people might have lots of Catholic friends, but I think it's safe to say the happily married are significantly less lonely in general). But about 40% of voters are unmarried, and the majority of these do not expect to marry. There are more people who are in unhappy/nonCatholic marriages than I was expecting. In toll, slightly more than half of the userbases is not currently happily married.
Having a family is of course the most stable and natural way to protect against loneliness. Not having one, or having one where the spousal relationship is corrupted or fundamentally deficient in some way, is one of the heaviest crosses one can bear. As I mentioned the poll was motivated by another thread about the psychological nature of Celibacy (by which the author really just means being unmarried).
It only makes sense that virtual communities, especially in our all but completely anti-God modern age, would attract "refugees" seeking respite from the Godlessness in which they are immersed. This is not to say that places like CI are nothing more than a psychological cope; they're definitely more than that. Nor is there even anything wrong with seeking out virtual Catholic interaction if/when one finds it lacking in real life. But I think it's worth acknowledging a motivation that brings us all together. I actually think a lot of the animosity one finds on forums might be due precisely to the fact that many users, animated by a desire to compensate for a lack of Catholic solidarity, become all the more irate when their place of respite has people they don't see eye to eye with on some issue or another. It exacerbates the problem they're trying to solve in the first place. And of course, if they really are lonely, they're probably at a greater risk of impatience anyways.
Just some thoughts, God bless.
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This poll has had an interesting effect on me. I'm glad you posted it & that I decided to participate. I'm typically a member that lurks in the background but never posts. I hadn't been on in quite a while as daily life doesn't allow much down time for this widow. Anyhow, I have always found the idea of being able to poll tradcats intriguing, especially on the subject of marriage.
After several years of marriage, I began to wonder if others found it as difficult as I did & if others were also putting up a front, pretending all was well. The more time passed & the more I learned, the more issues I wished I could get the inside scoop about; be a fly on the wall so to say. I suspect a high percentage of Trads would say they are happily married because external appearances don't allow us to admit otherwise. Add to that a typical lack of self-awareness & naivete about fallen human nature in general, and we have a perfect storm for generational dysfunction! People are "happy" so long as certain things aren't discussed. Everyone just accepts (and makes excuses for) volatile or disgruntled family members and families fall into patterns of avoidance & constant business to ensure distraction from any real issues being addressed. And the list just wouldn't be complete without a dose of good ol' manipulation & guilt tripping!
You probably think I'm just some random crazy lady ranting (you're right!) & that my post is off topic. However, I'll try to tie at least some of it together...
As it relates to loneliness, I suspect there's a fair amount of "grass is greener" syndrome amongst both married and unmarried. Many married wish they were single again and the unwed wish they could find their "perfect" mate. Truth be told, marriage is a process of personal sanctification & there is no such thing as perfect! God's plan is about using marriage to perfect individual souls, not provide souls with a "perfect" partner. Happiness is a choice, not something that comes because everything is the way we want it to be, and it stems from gratitude. Most people in my experience, blame their unhappiness (or worse yet, deny they're unhappy!) on external circuмstances or other people, instead of recognizing it's an internal spiritual problem. I can't resist throwing in one of my favorite quotes: It's not happy people who are grateful, but grateful people who are happy.
I contend that people are less and less prepared to embrace marriage as God intends it and the proof is in the state of our families. I contend that tradcat families are not much less broken than the rest of the world, we're just mostly too proud to admit it & see it for what it is. Other interesting polls might investigate things like unwed mothers/shotgun weddings, affairs, divorce, pornography use, etc, etc, amongst Trads... I think we might be shocked to learn the truth if we let ourselves face it. I believe in general, we are doing a tremendous disservice to society as a whole, by training our youth to perpetuate dysfunction. The Catholic youth of today is less able than ever to step up & embrace the self-mortification married life requires yet they are encouraged to think of nothing but finding a mate starting in early adolescence. A "happy marriage" requires 2 sincere Christian souls seeking God's Will, not their own selfish agenda. Our modern kids, even from our best Trad families, are trained to expect instant gratification & suffer an inflated opinion of self. Not to mention no small amount of entitlement! Now, I'm not saying there aren't any truly good marriages or families. I'm just saying we have a lot more struggles than we like to admit & we would do better to stop avoiding the real problems...
I believe we're all broken today no matter how good a job our parents tried to do. For many generations now, families have been suffering from Satan's attack on the fundamental unit of society, and he's attacking those with the Faith the hardest! I guess my rant is a plea to any who might read my words and feel prompted by Grace to do what they can each day to improve their own family situation by working on themselves. The more we allow God to mold us & embrace His plan for us, the more positive impact we can have on the world around us. Sometimes it's embracing marriage; sometimes it's embracing a different path...