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Author Topic: Please pray for me  (Read 3397 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Please pray for me
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2019, 07:24:36 AM »
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  • Are you using contraception? I don't see how you could delay children otherwise, unless you're abstaining entirely.
    I think you need to make clear to him that the reason you don't want to work is because you're anxious about childcare and what they might be subjected to if they have to go to daycare. You may have to continue working, but I'm sure there's some solution you can come to.
    OP here.
    No, because he changed his mind.
    And we never planned to use the pill, anyway. Rythm methods, yes, but not the pill...
    About the divorce thing (@Ladislaus): No, I don't  believe in divorce. Once married, always married. I'm a little worried about him thinking about it (he has divorced friends and Im afraid he is normalizing some things)


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #16 on: August 28, 2019, 07:39:48 AM »
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  • As I wrote before, it's absolutely imperative that you submit to him and respect him.  Respect doesn't just mean lip-service, where you bite your lip as steam comes out of your ears.  It means a genuine, sincere deference and respect ... and honor.  This does not mean you agree with everything he's doing.  You will find that it will be 10x more likely that he will listen to your opinions and take them into account, and even defer to them, if he sees you regularly showing him respect and deference and submission.  If, on the other hand, you fight him and pick away, he's only going to dig his heels in deeper as he tries to defend his prerogative as head of the family.

    It's not unlike the respect we owe a priest.  We recognize their authority, and we see God in them ... which doesn't necessarily mean that we agree with everything they say or do.  But we tip our head and say, "Good Morning, Father" as we walk by him.

    As I said, you should joyfully and sincerely submit to his will in view of his authority ... even if you don't agree with it.  How can you be joyful?  Because you are in fact submitting to GOD's will THROUGH him.  So his authority is giving you the opportunity to submit to God.  In that way you can find joy in submission.  Sometimes the greater the cost of giving up you own will, the greater the joy.  Consequently, you will be able to find JOY in giving up your own will and see it as a happy occasion of grace, an opportunity to submit to God's will when it hurts to do so.  What merit is there in a "submission" where you always get your way?

    If you practice this, respecting him as God's will in your life, then you will find joy also in your intellect and will ... and then you'll no longer be torn by your emotions conflicting with your will.

    When I was a seminarian, a priest asked me one evening after dinner, "Would you like to empty the garbage?"  I responded ,"No," with a smile, but immediately added, "but I'll do it anyway."  Father smiled back because he understood the point I was making.  As I took out the garbage, did I enjoy the activity by itself?  No.  But, on another level, it gave me GREAT JOY to do it because in doing it, I wasn't just taking out the garbage, but I was doing God's will as expressed in the authority of the priest.  How joyfully we would comply with a direct order from Our Lord, if He were to appear to us.  If JESUS had asked me to take out the garbage, I would have bounded up out of my chair to do it immediately.  But, in point of fact, He WAS asking me to take out the garbage through the authority of the priest, no differently than if He had appeared and asked me directly Himself.

    Similarly, while you do not enjoy or agree with working, take joy in submitting to your husband and deferring to his will, since you are deferring to the will of God.  If your husband sees this in you, joyfully deferring to his will, and saying, "I don't agree with this, but I am happy to do it because I love you and I respect your authority, and I put aside my own desires for you," .... there's a very high chance that he would be so moved by this that, at least in time, especially after you have children, he would insist that you quit.  Only a beast with a heart of stone would not be moved by that.

    Now, you might say, it's not just because I don't like working, but because I don't think it's right.  Since there's nothing intrinsically evil about a woman working.  If it gets the point that you think there's something intrinsically against your conscience, then bring a priest into it.  But whether it's because you don't want to do it or you don't think it's ideal, the same principles as above apply.  You give up your own will in subjection to your husband, find joy in THAT, even if you don't find joy in the activity itself, and you will find peace ... rather than his depression and anxiety.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #17 on: August 28, 2019, 07:42:30 AM »
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  • OP here.
    No, because he changed his mind.
    And we never planned to use the pill, anyway. Rythm methods, yes, but not the pill...
    About the divorce thing (@Ladislaus): No, I don't  believe in divorce. Once married, always married. I'm a little worried about him thinking about it (he has divorced friends and Im afraid he is normalizing some things)

    I understand that you're against divorce, but the fact that you even threw the word out there is disconcerting ... since you just god married.

    As for "rythm", no, no no.  You cannot use that (or NFP) unless there's a grave reason to do so (I don't believe at all, but I can't impose my opinion on your conscience).  It differs little from birth control when it's used without grave reason.

    Online Mithrandylan

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #18 on: August 28, 2019, 07:47:15 AM »
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  • Sounds like your husband needs some good male influences. Some friends who either don't have working wives, or who do but complain about the fact. 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #19 on: August 28, 2019, 08:39:59 AM »
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  • As I wrote before, it's absolutely imperative that you submit to him and respect him.  Respect doesn't just mean lip-service, where you bite your lip as steam comes out of your ears.  It means a genuine, sincere deference and respect ... and honor.  This does not mean you agree with everything he's doing.  You will find that it will be 10x more likely that he will listen to your opinions and take them into account, and even defer to them, if he sees you regularly showing him respect and deference and submission.  If, on the other hand, you fight him and pick away, he's only going to dig his heels in deeper as he tries to defend his prerogative as head of the family.

    It's not unlike the respect we owe a priest.  We recognize their authority, and we see God in them ... which doesn't necessarily mean that we agree with everything they say or do.  But we tip our head and say, "Good Morning, Father" as we walk by him.

    As I said, you should joyfully and sincerely submit to his will in view of his authority ... even if you don't agree with it.  How can you be joyful?  Because you are in fact submitting to GOD's will THROUGH him.  So his authority is giving you the opportunity to submit to God.  In that way you can find joy in submission.  Sometimes the greater the cost of giving up you own will, the greater the joy.  Consequently, you will be able to find JOY in giving up your own will and see it as a happy occasion of grace, an opportunity to submit to God's will when it hurts to do so.  What merit is there in a "submission" where you always get your way?

    If you practice this, respecting him as God's will in your life, then you will find joy also in your intellect and will ... and then you'll no longer be torn by your emotions conflicting with your will.

    When I was a seminarian, a priest asked me one evening after dinner, "Would you like to empty the garbage?"  I responded ,"No," with a smile, but immediately added, "but I'll do it anyway."  Father smiled back because he understood the point I was making.  As I took out the garbage, did I enjoy the activity by itself?  No.  But, on another level, it gave me GREAT JOY to do it because in doing it, I wasn't just taking out the garbage, but I was doing God's will as expressed in the authority of the priest.  How joyfully we would comply with a direct order from Our Lord, if He were to appear to us.  If JESUS had asked me to take out the garbage, I would have bounded up out of my chair to do it immediately.  But, in point of fact, He WAS asking me to take out the garbage through the authority of the priest, no differently than if He had appeared and asked me directly Himself.

    Similarly, while you do not enjoy or agree with working, take joy in submitting to your husband and deferring to his will, since you are deferring to the will of God.  If your husband sees this in you, joyfully deferring to his will, and saying, "I don't agree with this, but I am happy to do it because I love you and I respect your authority, and I put aside my own desires for you," .... there's a very high chance that he would be so moved by this that, at least in time, especially after you have children, he would insist that you quit.  Only a beast with a heart of stone would not be moved by that.

    Now, you might say, it's not just because I don't like working, but because I don't think it's right.  Since there's nothing intrinsically evil about a woman working.  If it gets the point that you think there's something intrinsically against your conscience, then bring a priest into it.  But whether it's because you don't want to do it or you don't think it's ideal, the same principles as above apply.  You give up your own will in subjection to your husband, find joy in THAT, even if you don't find joy in the activity itself, and you will find peace ... rather than his depression and anxiety.
    OP here.
    I agree with you about subjection and obeying. Im not a neopagan... Im a catholic woman.
    I dont believe its intrinsically evil to work , but I believe a married woman with kids should not work outside home if there isnt a real necesity.
    Im worried and scaried about leaving children at day care. If I submit (wich I agree I have to do) and something bad happens to my children.... I will be responsible in God's eyes???,?
    For example.If  I leave a 3yo at day care. Teacher says to him that homo families are "normal" and another child becomes transgender - Ive heard about 5yo becoming transgenders- I will be responsible for putting my own child at grave spiritual risk ? Since Im just obeying my husband?
    Day care teachers have an agenda and they believe they have to indoctrinate children at younger age.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #20 on: August 28, 2019, 08:42:58 AM »
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  • Sounds like your husband needs some good male influences. Some friends who either don't have working wives, or who do but complain about the fact.
    OP here.
    Of course.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #21 on: August 28, 2019, 08:50:53 AM »
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  • OP here

    I also feel like a weird because people believe I should make a career and leaving children with strangers isnt bad at all...
    I have very little female friends who are married and stay at home mothers. I find more peace talking with them that talking with other friends.

    I have a catholic friend with children, her hubby isnt catholic, and he doesnt believe that she should remain at home (the "development" mentality) but he agrees with her staying at home because he sees their children well cared and well loving. He is a neopagan but finds joy in returning home and seeing their children with mom and not with a stranger. Maybe my hubby who is a catholic will find joy and peace also? I hope so :)



    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #22 on: August 28, 2019, 09:15:32 AM »
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  • Quote
    2. He wants two incomes because he likes a good life style.
    The best way to argue against this is to sell him on the idea that if you stay at home with the children, you can "add value".  Not in monetary terms but in terms of getting chores done that would normally have to be done on the weekends.  For example, what are some things that you both have to do on the weekends because you can't do them during the week while you work?  Laundry?  Grocery shopping?  Cleaning bathrooms?  If you can convince him that you can do these things while staying at home, then you can persuade him that the weekends will have "more free time and less chores" if you stay at home.  Then weekends will be better for him and everyone.
    .
    Also, go to your friends who pay for child care and get quotes on what they pay.  Compare that to how much your "take home" pay is from work.  I've heard many people complain that most of their work $ is spent on child care so having a job isn't a great benefit.  It's almost a wash.


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    8. ... He will never agree about this and he will go on talking about how mothers who stay at home dont develop themselves.
    Next time this conversation comes up, remind him that the purpose of marriage is for the education and development of their children.  The woman's job is not to develop HERSELF but to develop/raise the children.  Yet, she will develop all kinds of skills by helping her children.  A wife has to learn the following.  A mother was not called a "domestic engineer" for nothing:
    .
    1.  Nursing skills and basic medical knowledge for all kids' needs.  2.  Accounting/budgeting when buying clothes/food.  3.  You can take some cooking/baking classes to better learn how to cook great/thrifty meals.  4.  You could learn sewing so you can make children's clothes or mend them.  5.  You'll have to learn/re-learn science, math and english too so you can help your children in their school studies.  6.  You'll (possibly) have to read psychology/personality books to learn how to deal with a difficult child or situation.  7.  You'll be able to run errands during the day that typically can only be done on the weekends (or at night after work), if both work during the day (dry cleaning, groceries, car maint, laundry, house cleaning, etc).
    .
    There's lot of advantages to having a spouse stay at home.  There's plenty to do and plenty to learn.  And a lot of economic benefits too.




    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #23 on: August 28, 2019, 09:23:56 AM »
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    I also feel like a weird because people believe I should make a career and leaving children with strangers isnt bad at all...
    Fr Ripperger of the FSSP has many video on domestic/family life.  He says that he thinks it's a mortal sin for a couple if the woman works outside the home instead of being with the children, unless there's a grave reason.  He says that it's a matter of justice because children have a right to their parents and a matter of the vows of marriage since spouses have the primary duty to educate their children.
    .
    I am not intending that you throw out this nuclear bomb and accuse your husband of a mortal sin if he makes you work.  But maybe he will listen to Fr's sermons and, with prayer on your part, he will change his mind.  Be patient, be prayerful, be positive.
    .
    Start listening at the 2 minute mark:
    .

    .
    Fr Ripperger has all kinds of great videos.  Enjoy.

    Online Mithrandylan

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #24 on: August 28, 2019, 10:01:36 AM »
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  • Lot of good advice in this thread, and good insights.
    .
    Let me look at the problem from a broader, general view.  The problem isn't that your husband wants you to work so much as it is that your husband is very worldly.  What are the various influences around you two that could help improve that problem?  Are you friends with other Catholic couples?  Can you naturally and authentically put your husband in touch with masculine men who don't make their wives work, who are disdainful of popular culture, and so on? 
    .
    Your husband may be Catholic but he seems to all but entirely lack a Catholic moral and social sense.  Even if he was OK with you staying home with the kids, something else would rear its head.  This is just the way the problem has happened to manifest.  What about when your daughters are sixteen and he's OK with them dressing like sluts, or what about when your son is eleven and you don't want to give him a smartphone because of risks to impurity but your hubsand thinks looking at porn is "natural"?  What I'm saying is that while it's obviously important to try to find a way to get him to let you stay home, if he "gives in" on that but remains worldly you're not actually solving any underlying issues.  In fact without solving underlying issues he's probably going to resent you for staying home.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #25 on: August 28, 2019, 10:02:24 AM »
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  • Im worried and scaried about leaving children at day care. If I submit (wich I agree I have to do) and something bad happens to my children.... I will be responsible in God's eyes???,?

    I wouldn't worry about this yet, since it hasn't happened.  Sometimes the arrival of a new baby changes people's minds.  I've know many parents who said they would use day care, but then looking at the baby's face changed their minds quickly.

    No, you are not responsible.  It's all on your husband.  You could charitably explain the risk he's incurring, but since it's his authority and his decision, he will be the one held accountable in God's eyes.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #26 on: August 28, 2019, 10:04:39 AM »
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  • Also your husband is rather dim.  Does he have any idea what daycare costs?  Unless you have no debt and are qualified to make a handsome salary, you'll be working just to pay for daycare.  Why not skip the whole charade and just stay home?  The finances will work out the same but the home life will be way better. 

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #27 on: August 28, 2019, 10:04:49 AM »
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  • The best way to argue against this is to sell him on the idea that if you stay at home with the children, you can "add value".  Not in monetary terms ...

    Have you checked into how much decent day care even costs?  Unless you're making a LOT of money, it could wipe out most of your income.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #28 on: August 28, 2019, 10:05:24 AM »
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  • Also your husband is rather dim.  Does he have any idea what daycare costs?  Unless you have no debt and are qualified to make a handsome salary, you'll be working just to pay for daycare.  Why not skip the whole charade and just stay home?  The finances will work out the same but the home life will be way better.

    LOL.  You beat me to this post by 10 seconds.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Please pray for me
    « Reply #29 on: August 28, 2019, 10:06:43 AM »
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  • Have you checked into how much decent day care even costs?  Unless you're making a LOT of money, it could wipe out most of your income.
    .
    Right.  The only way this makes sense to me is if the husband makes, say, close to six figures and the wife could make, say, 70+.  Then daycare makes a bit more fiscal sense (still doesn't make any moral sense).  And then factor in the sort of debt that is usually associated with a young person's capacity to make a handsome income, they're just running in place to stand still.  Stupid.