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Author Topic: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki  (Read 8494 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2023, 11:54:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: SemperFidelis on July 18, 2023, 11:25:32 PM
    You are wrong. I was in Zaitzkofen at the time and saw how Bishop Williamson was hated. So much so that seminarians were told not to go to his lectures when he came and he was ridiculed. I know that Rector Pfluger opened letters from Bishop Williamson to abbé Michal. Is this normal?? Fellay and company had wanted to destroy Bishop Williamson for a long time. Until they finally invited Swedish television and organised a trap. It was November 2008. They were afraid that abbé Michal would warn the Bishop, so they suddenly removed him. He had a few hours to pack up all his things.

    No, not wrong.  SSPX has always opened seminarians' letters ... that's well known ... regardless of who they're from or to.  Rest is an absurd bunch of nonsense, that SSPX entrapped Bishop Williamson to make the h0Ɩ0cαųst comments when those comments completely derailed the re-unification with Rome.
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    Offline SemperFidelis

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #31 on: July 19, 2023, 12:04:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 18, 2023, 11:54:07 PM
    No, not wrong.  SSPX has always opened seminarians' letters ... that's well known ... regardless of who they're from or to.  Rest is an absurd bunch of nonsense, that SSPX entrapped Bishop Williamson to make the h0Ɩ0cαųst comments when those comments completely derailed the re-unification with Rome.
    If you have no problem reading other people's letters then we live in different civilisations. Strange that somehow other letters were not opened.

    The journalists from Sweden came at the invitation of Father Pfluger, who encouraged the seminarians to talk to them. The enemies of the Church don't make plans by the month, but by years. Why does Rome need an FSSPX with a bishop who builds up opposition? Such a bishop has to be got rid of, and at the same time Benedict XVI has to be hit.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #32 on: July 19, 2023, 12:07:56 AM »
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    • I guess Bishop Michel just doesn't pass the Ladi test. :facepalm:
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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #33 on: July 19, 2023, 10:16:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 18, 2023, 07:11:15 AM
    I believe Bishop Faure started SAJM after he was made Bishop, thus he was consecrated independent, and then created the congregation. So, the last three Bishops can also start their own congregation and thus no longer be independent.

    A rather ironic idea since Bishop Williamson mentioned something like “there can be no organisation, no structure.” “The era of structures is yesterday.”
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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #34 on: July 20, 2023, 06:58:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 19, 2023, 10:16:04 PM
    A rather ironic idea since Bishop Williamson mentioned something like “there can be no organisation, no structure.” “The era of structures is yesterday.”
    Indeed, it is ironic that first Bishop he consecrated turns around and does the very thing he suggest they do not do. The SAJM make it know that they do not approve of independent priests yet is Bishop Williamson that suggest there be "pockets of resistance" and not SSPX 2.0. I suppose that is why the website Non Possumus (nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com) removed all links to anything related to Bishop Williamson. There used to be a link to the St. Marcel Initiative and a link to respice stellam – Under the patronage of Stella Maris, Our Lady Star of the Sea
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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #35 on: July 20, 2023, 07:44:52 AM »
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    • Does anyone know what Bishop Stobnicki means when he claims "[t]he violent opposition has continued also, up to and including the possibly murderous slashing of a tire of my car"?  Generally speaking, slashing a car tire is an act of vandalism, not something 'murderous.'  Is he claiming that his life has been in danger?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #36 on: July 20, 2023, 07:49:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 20, 2023, 07:44:52 AM
    Does anyone know what Bishop Stobnicki means when he claims "[t]he violent opposition has continued also, up to and including the possibly murderous slashing of a tire of my car"?  Generally speaking, slashing a car tire is an act of vandalism, not something 'murderous.'  Is he claiming that his life has been in danger?

    Possible mistranslation?

    I went to Google translate and went backwards from "murderous" to Polish and got:  morderczy

    When looking at the definition of this word, it can mean not only murderous but also "dangerously violent".

    I think we have some Polacks here who can chime in ... :laugh1:
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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #37 on: July 20, 2023, 07:49:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 20, 2023, 06:58:09 AM
    Indeed, it is ironic that first Bishop he consecrated turns around and does the very thing he suggest they do not do. The SAJM make it know that they do not approve of independent priests yet is Bishop Williamson that suggest there be "pockets of resistance" and not SSPX 2.0. I suppose that is why the website Non Possumus (nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com) removed all links to anything related to Bishop Williamson. There used to be a link to the St. Marcel Initiative and a link to respice stellam – Under the patronage of Stella Maris, Our Lady Star of the Sea

    In my opinion, the lack of a congregation was the primary reason for the Resistance failure to launch.

    It was the original cause of friction between Pfeiffer and Williamson.

    By the time +Faure was consecrated, mid 2015, the Resistance was already 3.5 years-old, and most priests had already made their decisions.  

    Too little, too late.

    Everyone understood that a Resistance movement formed according to independent pockets of resistance, without any means of reproduction (except along the lines of questionable formation we see emerging now) was a death sentence.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #38 on: July 20, 2023, 07:58:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 20, 2023, 07:49:40 AM
    In my opinion, the lack of a congregation was the primary reason for the Resistance failure to launch.

    It was the original cause of friction between Pfeiffer and Williamson.

    By the time +Faure was consecrated, mid 2015, the Resistance was already 3.5 years-old, and most priests had already made their decisions. 

    Too little, too late.

    Everyone understood that a Resistance movement formed according to independent pockets of resistance, without any means of reproduction (except along the lines of questionable formation we see emerging now) was a death sentence.

    Yes, and I've always disagreed with Bishop Williamson for not putting SOMEthing together by way or organization ... that could have reined in the individuals who later became loose canons.  Now, it needn't be a strict "Society" of any kind.  One of the issues with SSPX has always been the "one size fits all" notion of priestly vocation.  Before Vatican II, there are dozens upon dozens of options for how to live out even a priestly vocation.  Some young men are more contemplative, others more academic, others more pastoral, others more "ora et labora"-minded, etc.  That's why there are so many orders in the Church.  But the SSPX has always had this tendency to shoehorn people into a certain type of vocation.  In addition, they also do weird things like force priests to go off to Zimbabwe to live in a straw hut for years, without the priest volunteering for it.  Not everyone is suited for that kind of thing.  I have to believe that the breakdown of Father Stafki was related to his time of forced service in Africa.  Not everyone is suited for the hustle and bustle of doing the mission circuit.  And so on ...  But a loose-knit organization of "Resistance" priests could have been very helpful, to help connect priests with congregations, to provide more centralized seminary and other resources, possibly build out some schools and retreat houses and the like, and most importantly to give the priests some kind of "anchor" so that they don't end up being wanderers (which is, for some, a recipe for disaster).
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #39 on: July 20, 2023, 08:01:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 20, 2023, 06:58:09 AM
    Indeed, it is ironic that first Bishop he consecrated turns around and does the very thing he suggest they do not do. The SAJM make it know that they do not approve of independent priests yet is Bishop Williamson that suggest there be "pockets of resistance" and not SSPX 2.0. I suppose that is why the website Non Possumus (nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com) removed all links to anything related to Bishop Williamson. There used to be a link to the St. Marcel Initiative and a link to respice stellam – Under the patronage of Stella Maris, Our Lady Star of the Sea

    I just viewed the Non-Possumus website, and the SAJM link is still there, and a photo underneath it which includes +ABL, Bp. Williamson,  Bp. Faure, Bp. Thomas Aquinas, and Bp. Z. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #40 on: July 20, 2023, 08:05:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 20, 2023, 07:49:40 AM
    In my opinion, the lack of a congregation was the primary reason for the Resistance failure to launch.

    It was the original cause of friction between Pfeiffer and Williamson.

    By the time +Faure was consecrated, mid 2015, the Resistance was already 3.5 years-old, and most priests had already made their decisions. 

    Too little, too late.

    Everyone understood that a Resistance movement formed according to independent pockets of resistance, without any means of reproduction (except along the lines of questionable formation we see emerging now) was a death sentence.

    The interesting thing is that Williamson knew this independent movement would stifle the resistance, and he often spoke about how priests should stay in the SSPX, as many would not survive being tossed from the life raft into the ocean.

    I’m a Williamson supporter generally, but this rejection of a congregation and seminaries bears the primary responsibility for the stunted resistance.

    He was wrong.

    Bishoo Sanborn also had similar valid criticisms.
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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #41 on: July 20, 2023, 08:09:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 20, 2023, 08:05:02 AM
    The interesting thing is that Williamson knew this independent movement would stifle the resistance, and he often spoke about how priests should stay in the SSPX, as many would not survive being tossed from the life raft into the ocean.

    I’m a Williamson supporter generally, but this rejection of a congregation and seminaries bears the primary responsibility for the stunted resistance.

    He was wrong.

    Bishoo Sanborn also had similar valid criticisms.

    It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy ^^^
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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #42 on: July 20, 2023, 08:11:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 20, 2023, 08:09:01 AM
    It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy ^^^

    self-fulfilling prophecy, process through which an originally false expectation leads to its own confirmation. In a self-fulfilling [color=var(--link-color)]prophecy[/color] an individual’s expectations about another person or [color=var(--link-color)]entity[/color] eventually result in the other person or entity acting in ways that confirm the expectations.
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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #43 on: July 20, 2023, 08:15:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: SemperFidelis on July 19, 2023, 12:04:16 AM
    If you have no problem reading other people's letters then we live in different civilisations. Strange that somehow other letters were not opened.

    The journalists from Sweden came at the invitation of Father Pfluger, who encouraged the seminarians to talk to them. The enemies of the Church don't make plans by the month, but by years. Why does Rome need an FSSPX with a bishop who builds up opposition? Such a bishop has to be got rid of, and at the same time Benedict XVI has to be hit.

    Yes, very true, regarding Rome not needing an SSPX who builds up opposition, and Benedict XVI needing to be gotten rid of as well. 
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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #44 on: July 20, 2023, 08:27:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on July 20, 2023, 08:01:45 AM
    I just viewed the Non-Possumus website, and the SAJM link is still there, and a photo underneath it which includes +ABL, Bp. Williamson,  Bp. Faure, Bp. Thomas Aquinas, and Bp. Z.
    Of course, the SAJM link is there, Non Possumus is associated with SAJM (just look at the big header at the top), but why no more link to Bishop Williamson's St . Marcel Initiative and no more link to Respice Stellam?
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