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Author Topic: Passing by a schismatic church  (Read 2041 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Passing by a schismatic church
« on: March 12, 2015, 09:38:51 AM »
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  • I live in an area with a fairly large number of eastern schismatic churches (Greek, Russian, Coptic). As it has ever been the teaching of the Church that these schismatics have valid Sacraments, it follows that Our Lord really is present in such places in the Blessed Sacrament. For that reason, I make the Sign of the Cross and utter the traditional prayer "O Sacrament most holy, o Sacrament divine, all praise and all thanksgiving be every moment Thine" when I pass these churches.

    But I wonder if there was ever any proscription against making this public reverence due to the confusion and scandal it could cause (i.e. leading others to infer a legitimizing of schismatics where none was intended). Does anyone know what the Church traditionally taught about this one way or the other?

    I suppose an extension of this would be the proper conduct of a Catholic if introduced to a schismatic bishop - how would one simultaneously acknowledge the validity of his episcopacy but the illegitimacy of his claim to authority? Kissing his ring is presumably not to be done, but what about addressing him as "Your Excellency?"

    I thank you in advance for your responses.


    Offline poche

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #1 on: March 12, 2015, 10:55:56 PM »
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  • I suppose an extension of this would be the proper conduct of a Catholic if introduced to a schismatic bishop - how would one simultaneously acknowledge the validity of his episcopacy but the illegitimacy of his claim to authority? Kissing his ring is presumably not to be done, but what about addressing him as "Your Excellency?"

    I think the correct form of adress is 'your beatitude."


    Änσnymσus

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #2 on: March 13, 2015, 08:10:52 AM »
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  • Anyone other than Poche care to contribute? I'm running out of grains of salt with which to take anything he says.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #3 on: March 13, 2015, 08:53:00 AM »
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  • I don't do it because I do not want to give the impression that I'm endorsing the schismatic Church.  I speak to Our Lord in my heart as to Someone who's being kept prisoner there in the schismatic church.

    Änσnymσus

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #4 on: March 13, 2015, 01:14:25 PM »
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  • What do you do when you walk past a Novus Ordo Church?


    Offline Nadir

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #5 on: March 13, 2015, 03:58:42 PM »
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  • Ladi makes a good point. I used to make the Sign of the Cross as my bus went pass the abortuary, but that was an action directed against the demons. (I don't need to travel that way anymore.) The Sign of the Cross is good for many situations.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Änσnymσus

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #6 on: March 14, 2015, 10:54:51 AM »
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  • I only cross myself when I pass by Catholic churches. Even the novus ordo parishes. For the separated people in Protestant sects, I pray they come to the Church. I will never cross myself when I pass by those.

    Änσnymσus

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #7 on: March 14, 2015, 11:40:27 AM »
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  • I cross myself and say "Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me a sinner" when  ass any Catholic church or any church where Jesus is within.  When I pass a non NO Catholic church unless there is a good reason not to I go in and spend a few minutes humbling myself before Our Lord. Not obviously in the middle of the night


    Änσnymσus

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #8 on: March 14, 2015, 02:43:27 PM »
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    I only cross myself when I pass by Catholic churches. Even the novus ordo parishes. For the separated people in Protestant sects, I pray they come to the Church. I will never cross myself when I pass by those.


    Well, that goes without saying. Our Lord is not present at all in Protestant dens. He is, however, fully present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the churches of the eastern schismatics.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2015, 06:20:17 PM »
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  • This recalls to me the story of the modernist priest who died and was not permitted a Christian burial. St. Pius X made it very clear that he would not receive a Christian burial. Then at the funeral one priest made the sign of the cross as they were lowering his casket into the grave and was subsequently excommunicated.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Änσnymσus

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #10 on: March 15, 2015, 02:27:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica


    This recalls to me the story of the modernist priest who died and was not permitted a Christian burial. St. Pius X made it very clear that he would not receive a Christian burial. Then at the funeral one priest made the sign of the cross as they were lowering his casket into the grave and was subsequently excommunicated.


    With the obvious and crucial difference being that the OP is not talking about making the sign of the cross as an act of defiance, as an act of Adoration of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity really and substantially present, despite - and not because of - that Presence being in a schismatic church.

    And the story sounds like its missing more than a few details - a knee jerk excommunication of a priest who makes a single sign of the cross does not sound like an act of the wise and judicious St. Pius X, it sounds like a stupid outburst of vindictiveness by a petty tyrant... Thus, I don't believe it happened as described. Can you cite a reputable source?


    Offline Centroamerica

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    Passing by a schismatic church
    « Reply #11 on: March 15, 2015, 04:48:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Centroamerica


    This recalls to me the story of the modernist priest who died and was not permitted a Christian burial. St. Pius X made it very clear that he would not receive a Christian burial. Then at the funeral one priest made the sign of the cross as they were lowering his casket into the grave and was subsequently excommunicated.


    With the obvious and crucial difference being that the OP is not talking about making the sign of the cross as an act of defiance, as an act of Adoration of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity really and substantially present, despite - and not because of - that Presence being in a schismatic church.

    And the story sounds like its missing more than a few details - a knee jerk excommunication of a priest who makes a single sign of the cross does not sound like an act of the wise and judicious St. Pius X, it sounds like a stupid outburst of vindictiveness by a petty tyrant... Thus, I don't believe it happened as described. Can you cite a reputable source?


    It was George Tyrell's friend and he was suspended a divinis by the bishop, not excommunicated. A simple confusion.

    And yes, I understand the difference between the two subjects, only that one reminded me of the other.

    Surely you can find your own "reputable" source. The story is well known.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...