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Author Topic: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?  (Read 14754 times)

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Offline SimpleMan

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Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2022, 04:13:12 PM »
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  • Multiple marriages gets expensive, at least in community property states and states with alimony or spousal support.  More expensive if child support is required.

    Also, unfortunately, marriages of the sspx, sede, resistance and independent can be annulled very easily.  I always encourage such marriages to be re-done, so to speak, at the FSSP or NO, just to make sure annulment is more difficult.

    Yes, that is true, but if a couple follows the modern paradigm of husband and wife both working, and more or less contributing equally, then if they divorce, it gets split down the middle, and if the divorced spouses find someone who has had a similar divorce situation, they're kind of back where they started.  It is almost counter-cultural in the Southeastern United States for a middle-aged person not to have had two or even three marriages. 

    Child support does get tricky, but if custody is split --- which is happening more and more --- it can be pretty much a wash as well.

    This poor, wretched society.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #16 on: June 15, 2022, 07:51:42 PM »
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  • So a sede accepts a NO marriage but not a NO annulment?
    .
    Yes, this is correct.
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    Quote
    BTW, marriage by a sede priest would generally qualify as "Lack of form".

    .
    Qualify with whom? I don't think I understand your point. You're saying someone could go to a Novus Ordo parish and say they got married at a sede parish and they could easily get an annulment? So what? They could go to a protestant church and get told they can get divorced if they want to anyway and that would be much quicker and slightly easier and a heck of a lot cheaper, and their soul would end up in the same place after death anyway. :cowboy:


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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #17 on: June 15, 2022, 08:30:08 PM »
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  • .
    Yes, this is correct.
    .
    .
    Qualify with whom? I don't think I understand your point. You're saying someone could go to a Novus Ordo parish and say they got married at a sede parish and they could easily get an annulment? So what? They could go to a protestant church and get told they can get divorced if they want to anyway and that would be much quicker and slightly easier and a heck of a lot cheaper, and their soul would end up in the same place after death anyway. :cowboy:
    It is crazy to me that a sede would accept a NO marriage but not a NO annulment.  

    Yes, a couple married by a sede priest could very easily get an annulment.  And I don't believe their soul would end up in hell, because only Rome can grant annulments.

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #18 on: June 15, 2022, 08:35:26 PM »
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  • Yes, that is true, but if a couple follows the modern paradigm of husband and wife both working, and more or less contributing equally, then if they divorce, it gets split down the middle, and if the divorced spouses find someone who has had a similar divorce situation, they're kind of back where they started.  It is almost counter-cultural in the Southeastern United States for a middle-aged person not to have had two or even three marriages. 

    Child support does get tricky, but if custody is split --- which is happening more and more --- it can be pretty much a wash as well.

    This poor, wretched society.
    Even if the wife doesn't work outside the home, if they get divorced in a community property state, they both get 50-50.  If there was any abuse or infidelity, some states will grant more to one side than the other.

    Spousal support or alimony is available in some states, too, if one spouse needs financial assistance.  

    Even if custody is split, which is not a guarantee, generally whomever makes more money will have to pay child support.  

    Everyone loses in divorce, especially children.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #19 on: June 15, 2022, 08:47:06 PM »
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  • It is crazy to me that a sede would accept a NO marriage but not a NO annulment. 

    Yes, a couple married by a sede priest could very easily get an annulment.  And I don't believe their soul would end up in hell, because only Rome can grant annulments.
    .
    In marriage, the ministers of the sacrament are the man and woman getting married, so the validity of matrimony does not depend on the validity of the priest witnessing the ceremony.

    Obviously someone who is not faithful to his marriage promises will end up in hell, whether that infidelity is called "adultery", "divorce", or "annulled". Rome does not have any power to annul a marriage in which both parties have freely expressed their consent to contract matrimony. "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder."

    That was my point about they might as well go to a protestant church if they think anyone out there can dissolve their marriage and give them a new one. That's the teaching of the Church.


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #20 on: June 15, 2022, 09:05:17 PM »
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  • .
    In marriage, the ministers of the sacrament are the man and woman getting married, so the validity of matrimony does not depend on the validity of the priest witnessing the ceremony.

    Obviously someone who is not faithful to his marriage promises will end up in hell, whether that infidelity is called "adultery", "divorce", or "annulled". Rome does not have any power to annul a marriage in which both parties have freely expressed their consent to contract matrimony. "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder."

    That was my point about they might as well go to a protestant church if they think anyone out there can dissolve their marriage and give them a new one. That's the teaching of the Church.

    Literally:
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #21 on: June 15, 2022, 09:07:02 PM »
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  • .
    In marriage, the ministers of the sacrament are the man and woman getting married, so the validity of matrimony does not depend on the validity of the priest witnessing the ceremony.

    Obviously someone who is not faithful to his marriage promises will end up in hell, whether that infidelity is called "adultery", "divorce", or "annulled". Rome does not have any power to annul a marriage in which both parties have freely expressed their consent to contract matrimony. "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder."

    That was my point about they might as well go to a protestant church if they think anyone out there can dissolve their marriage and give them a new one. That's the teaching of the Church.
    True, but Our Lord also said
    "Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven."

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #22 on: June 15, 2022, 09:13:13 PM »
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  • True, but Our Lord also said
    "Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven."
    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #23 on: June 15, 2022, 09:22:29 PM »
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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #24 on: June 15, 2022, 09:32:59 PM »
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  • He was talking to the apostles.
    Thank you, I already knew that. My befuddlement is how that verse applies to marriage.
    The Catholic Church does not recognize anyone, including the Pope, as having authority to dissolve a valid, consummated marriage.
    A finding of nullity (popularly called an annulment) is an opinion that, even though a ceremony was performed, there was something that prevented it from being a marriage.

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #25 on: June 15, 2022, 09:35:23 PM »
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  • Thank you, I already knew that. My befuddlement is how that verse applies to marriage.
    The Catholic Church does not recognize anyone, including the Pope, as having authority to dissolve a valid, consummated marriage.
    A finding of nullity (popularly called an annulment) is an opinion that, even though a ceremony was performed, there was something that prevented it from being a marriage.
    Correct.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #26 on: June 15, 2022, 09:38:04 PM »
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  • Even if the wife doesn't work outside the home, if they get divorced in a community property state, they both get 50-50.  If there was any abuse or infidelity, some states will grant more to one side than the other.

    Spousal support or alimony is available in some states, too, if one spouse needs financial assistance. 

    Even if custody is split, which is not a guarantee, generally whomever makes more money will have to pay child support. 

    Everyone loses in divorce, especially children.

    How well do I know all of these things, especially the latter.

    Yes, property is generally split 50-50, but my point (probably more implicit than it should have been) was that, in modern two-career marriages, each spouse makes roughly the same salary, and can be presumed, if they "started out with nothing", to have contributed more or less equally to the marital estate.

    Split custody is becoming more and more common, but in our society, as a practical matter (especially in more socially conservative parts of the US) the mother is presumed to be the more "natural" parent (regardless of her suitability for it), and the social expectation --- which is pretty malignant and damning --- is that the father is some kind of wastrel who will inevitably seek out another partner (due to various promptings in oneself), and his paramour takes precedence over his children.  The end result is that you have a social system that indirectly enables stepfathers, and can even put them in the role of the dominant male in the children's lives.  Thankfully, I was spared all of this, and I have been far and away the dominant force in my son's life from Day One.  Being retired and able to homeschool him full-time is just icing on the cake.  And there is no stepmother.

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #27 on: June 15, 2022, 09:40:58 PM »
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  • This guy is a Protestant. 
    Is this for real?  Is marriage in USA patented? 

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #28 on: June 15, 2022, 09:41:22 PM »
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  • This guy is a Protestant.
    Is this for real?  Is marriage in USA patented?

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    Re: Parishes: Has Marriage become a trend?
    « Reply #29 on: June 15, 2022, 09:47:44 PM »
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  • The government should not be involved with divorce or marriage.  

    We got a marriage certificate from town but nothing from NO Church.  Nothing.  

    I went to church and a computer print out of our sacraments to proof of sacraments.  Disgusting.