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Author Topic: Outside of indult  (Read 1847 times)

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Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2026, 08:35:44 AM »
It might be best for traditional Catholic men not to marry until the fathers start doing their job. That will certainly get the attention of the clergy, fathers, and young women. Besides, it is not justice to require the young men to clean up the mess another group made.

So far the contradictory advice young men have received:
1. Men should go up to women and ask for their number.
2. Don't go to the indult just to check out the ladies. So he should act effeminate and dance around the issue of why he is there.

He certainly isn't there to attend Mass. What should his motivation be?
Not marrying because fathers don’t do their job is cutting off one's nose to spite one’s face. I dare say most fathers don’t know they are supposed to help their daughters and sons find a spouse. Most have no idea of how to do that, hence the reason for singles’ meet ups. At least someone is doing something, however successful or not. Priests are aware of the situation and are trying to take action. 
Meet-ups are not for everyone, but some people may meet a future marriage partner at one. To me, they’re too fake, cringe, as young people say. If the gathering had another purpose, like a camping retreat weekend, a pilgrimage, or a fix up the chapel and grounds day in the spring and winterizing in the fall, I’d be more inclined to attend. How about the young adults run something like the chapel rummage sale? That way, there’s another goal in attending other than to look at the opposite sex and having them look at you. A person can get a look at how others interact, work, (or sit back and watch others do the work). Are they bossy, considerate, cooperative, overly critical, have good ideas to share, insist on doing everything their way? That’s far more important than checking out whether they’re a 10 or a 1. Anyone can look pious in the pew, but it doesn’t mean they’re holy when elsewhere. If a person, let’s say, is used to using profanity, that’s going to come out in a natural setting. This is not to say a person with a bad habit can’t give it up. A natural setting with more spiritual or charitable goals is easier for everyone. Even if there’s absolutely no one in whom you have any interest so far as a marriage partner, at least you come away having done something meritorious with your time. Maybe you just had a fun weekend of recreation, that’s perfectly legitimate. People need to recreate. Maybe you didn’t meet anyone of the opposite sex, but you met someone of the same sex with whom you can be friends. You share the same interest, ie. in fishing, hunting, cars, 4-wheeling, computers, ham radio, etc. Expanding your social network is always good. 
Perhaps, instead of the priest doing the planning and preparation, how about a small committee of young adults do the work under the priest’s supervision?  Of course, the priest has the final say and handles the spiritual aspects. It gives young people the opportunity to learn leadership, to take supporting roles, to manage time and finance, to plan wisely. These are skills with which many young people enter the real world woefully lacking. 
I’m well beyond the age for young adult gatherings, except maybe as a chaperone. (Anyone up for a walker race? Then we’re going to fold table napkins for the young folks. They’ll need enough for 31 people, let’s call it 40 to be on the safe side, for nine meals/snacks. Tom, here’s the calculator. Please give us the total and we’ll get started. 
“Calculator? We don’t need one. 40 x 9 = 360.”
Thanks, Betty. Here’s a package of 500. Let’s fold all of them to be on the safe side.)


Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2026, 11:14:06 AM »
Not marrying because fathers don’t do their job is cutting off one's nose to spite one’s face. I dare say most fathers don’t know they are supposed to help their daughters and sons find a spouse. Most have no idea of how to do that, hence the reason for singles’ meet ups. At least someone is doing something, however successful or not. Priests are aware of the situation and are trying to take action.
Meet-ups are not for everyone, but some people may meet a future marriage partner at one. To me, they’re too fake, cringe, as young people say. If the gathering had another purpose, like a camping retreat weekend, a pilgrimage, or a fix up the chapel and grounds day in the spring and winterizing in the fall, I’d be more inclined to attend. How about the young adults run something like the chapel rummage sale? That way, there’s another goal in attending other than to look at the opposite sex and having them look at you. A person can get a look at how others interact, work, (or sit back and watch others do the work). Are they bossy, considerate, cooperative, overly critical, have good ideas to share, insist on doing everything their way? That’s far more important than checking out whether they’re a 10 or a 1. Anyone can look pious in the pew, but it doesn’t mean they’re holy when elsewhere. If a person, let’s say, is used to using profanity, that’s going to come out in a natural setting. This is not to say a person with a bad habit can’t give it up. A natural setting with more spiritual or charitable goals is easier for everyone. Even if there’s absolutely no one in whom you have any interest so far as a marriage partner, at least you come away having done something meritorious with your time. Maybe you just had a fun weekend of recreation, that’s perfectly legitimate. People need to recreate. Maybe you didn’t meet anyone of the opposite sex, but you met someone of the same sex with whom you can be friends. You share the same interest, ie. in fishing, hunting, cars, 4-wheeling, computers, ham radio, etc. Expanding your social network is always good.
Perhaps, instead of the priest doing the planning and preparation, how about a small committee of young adults do the work under the priest’s supervision?  Of course, the priest has the final say and handles the spiritual aspects. It gives young people the opportunity to learn leadership, to take supporting roles, to manage time and finance, to plan wisely. These are skills with which many young people enter the real world woefully lacking.
I’m well beyond the age for young adult gatherings, except maybe as a chaperone. (Anyone up for a walker race? Then we’re going to fold table napkins for the young folks. They’ll need enough for 31 people, let’s call it 40 to be on the safe side, for nine meals/snacks. Tom, here’s the calculator. Please give us the total and we’ll get started.
“Calculator? We don’t need one. 40 x 9 = 360.”
Thanks, Betty. Here’s a package of 500. Let’s fold all of them to be on the safe side.)
Seraphina, your problem is that there is always an exception to the rule that you have to look for and require everyone else including myself to accept without question. That's not how things work or how they should work either. It's a mess. There is nothing wrong with men opting out of marriage because of the disastrous landscape we have to deal with. A man who knows something is rigged and participates anyways will lose his self-respect.

If you can't understand that, I can't help you.


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Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2026, 09:57:47 PM »
Seraphina, your problem is that there is always an exception to the rule that you have to look for and require everyone else including myself to accept without question. That's not how things work or how they should work either. It's a mess. There is nothing wrong with men opting out of marriage because of the disastrous landscape we have to deal with. A man who knows something is rigged and participates anyways will lose his self-respect.

If you can't understand that, I can't help you.
Not sure how she was finding an exception to the rule there. I honestly think the work day idea, or something similar, might be better than a YAG. You can see which girls group up and gossip on their phones, and which ones are cleaning and helping out. Same with the guys, you can see which ones are helping take out garbage and move things, and which ones are obnoxious, loud, and acting like 4th graders. Basically providing a more natural atmosphere to assess personalities and virtues and there's not the pressure of finding a mate like at a YAG.

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Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2026, 08:23:55 AM »
Seraphina, your problem is that there is always an exception to the rule that you have to look for and require everyone else including myself to accept without question. That's not how things work or how they should work either. It's a mess. There is nothing wrong with men opting out of marriage because of the disastrous landscape we have to deal with. A man who knows something is rigged and participates anyways will lose his self-respect.

If you can't understand that, I can't help you.
Honestly, optimism often grates on me too. Most of the time, and in most ways, people suck and aren't worth the bother. But it's also not right to constantly shoot down someone who wants to try a different approach. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe you're both wrong. But you both have a right to look for an answer.

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Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2026, 10:36:03 AM »
Honestly, optimism often grates on me too. Most of the time, and in most ways, people suck and aren't worth the bother. But it's also not right to constantly shoot down someone who wants to try a different approach. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe you're both wrong. But you both have a right to look for an answer.
I visited a close friend from a different city a couple of months ago. He's very aware of the 'woman problem' in society and tradition. He suggested a woman from a different city he met at a YAG for me to get to know. This woman is in her early thirties, a public advocate for some different causes, very busy, she engages in dancing with the opposite sex, among other things. She has a public website for her advocacy. She may be virtuous. She may have a pleasant personality. I don't know her. But I could very easily argue with what he told me and what her website says, that is not a woman I want to marry or someone I would suggest to my friends.

Several years ago, another close friend of mine told me one of the women at church was interested in me. She was white and had a black child out of wedlock and her social media did not have flattering information about her. I said I wasn't interested and he and I were bickering about it for a few minutes before he conceded. He actually had a problem with me holding the line for my standards. My standard being I am not interested in being the step father for a mulatta.

I've had my other traditional Catholic friends and leaders give questionable advice too. I'm still friends with all of them. But these suggestions really made me realize you can't even trust your closest traditional friends to have your back. I really am alone in regards to the courtship and marriage question. And it is daunting. Heads you win, tails I lose. If you stick to principles, you are stubborn and uncharitable. If you don't stick to principles, you are a coward and effeminate. I imagine many more traditional Catholic men are out there in a similar or identical situation.

People can do what they want. I can't stop them. But I don't know how these people who get married in a worldly way are planning on addressing this question when their children become of age. You can teach them the importance of parents helping their children find spouses all you want. But your example is x1000 more convincing then doing apologetics. If you met your wife at a YAG and you want to monitor your daughter's choice of suitors much more closely, good luck convincing her to do that.