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Offline Matthew

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  • To all guests and lurkers --

    You are most welcome to post any news, rumors, etc. about the possible agreement between Rome and the SSPX.

    This forum is a safe haven for such discussion.

    You can also speculate if you wish.

    I, like many SSPX Mass center attendees, have no idea what is going to happen. I'd very much like to stay informed.

    Anyone who posts news articles, sermons, talks, statements, etc. on this topic is sure to get THUMBS UP from me, and I invite all other CathInfo members to do the same!
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
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    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Open Invitation - Post about SSPX, Bp Fellay, SSPX priests
    « Reply #1 on: May 08, 2012, 02:45:45 PM »
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  • 1) Some people allege a letter was sent by the 3 SSPX bishops to Bishop Fellay stating their opposition to a deal.  Has anyone seen such a letter?

    2) There is also alleged a scene to have taken place at the SSPX district superiors meeting in Albano, in which an old priest stood up and denounced the idea of a sellout to Fr. Pfluger.  Has anyone been given any public and published corroboration by an SSPX priest who was there?

    3) There is also alleged to be widespread opposition to Fr. Pfluger's sellout plan at meetings of the German district priests.  Again: Any verification that can be cited here?

       In other words, all this is nothing more than internet myth.

       Nothing to back the myth.

       Wish there was, but just saying...
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Ethelred

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    Open Invitation - Post about SSPX, Bp Fellay, SSPX priests
    « Reply #2 on: May 08, 2012, 04:10:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    1) Some people allege a letter was sent by the 3 SSPX bishops to Bishop Fellay stating their opposition to a deal.  Has anyone seen such a letter?

    The easiest way to get confirmation on this delicate issue is to ask some friend or SSPX priest known to you who's befriended with one ore more of the three brave bishops. I'm sure he'll confirm the letter and its summary to you.
    The fact that Fr Schmidberger's very angry about that letter won't count as "confirmation"? :-)

    God bless bishops Galarreta, Tissier de Mallerais and Williamson!


    Quote
    Albano

    I don't know about an elder priest standing up in Albano (sounds rather like Fr Maeßen at the German district meeting from your point 3 ?), but we have got the British district superior Fr Morgan's good report about the meeting -- see next posting please.


    Quote
    3) There is also alleged to be widespread opposition to Fr. Pfluger's sellout plan at meetings of the German district priests.  Again: Any verification that can be cited here?

    Now what kind of verification could we give to you here? The address of some priests who attended the meeting? But would they dare to confirm it publicly?

    Good bless Fr Maeßen!

    I talked to a few priests who attended that autumn 2011 German district meeting in Stuttgart and they independently confirmed what happened :
    The elder and ill Fr Franz-Josef Maeßen stood up (and he alone) and in about four minutes wiped away Fr Pfluger's hours-long sellout propaganda. During Fr Maeßen's short speech most of the attending priests applauded him several times.
    So most of them indeed oppose a sellout but don't dare to protest themselves...


    Quote
    In other words, all this is nothing more than internet myth.

    No, but it's not easily provable in the anonymous Internet with users coming from all over the world and with the betrayers still being in SSPX key positions.

    Let's wait and see what will officially be published by the bishops and priests who're loyal to Archbishop Lefebvre and so the Church's tradition. For sure the battle has started at least.

    Sanct Marcel, pray for us!

    Offline Ethelred

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    Open Invitation - Post about SSPX, Bp Fellay, SSPX priests
    « Reply #3 on: May 08, 2012, 04:11:14 PM »
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  • The following was originally posted by Fr Morgan on the British SSPX district website, but then made deleted because Bp Fellay was very angry with the good Fr Morgan.

    It should be well possible to look up some Internet cache to get the text again. The original URL was:

    www.sspx.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=390:
    district-superiors-letter-november-2011&catid=114:district-superiors-letter&Itemid=86

    Quote from: Fr Morgan SSPX, District Superior's Letter November 2011

    My dear brethren

    The meeting of the Society’s superiors took place at Albano on 7-8th October as announced in last month’s newsletter, and Bishop Fellay did indeed use this opportunity to discuss the ‘Doctrinal Preamble’ text as received from Cardinal Levada on 14th September.

    The first day of the meeting covered three issues: an overview of the contacts with Rome since 1987; a summary of the doctrinal discussions; and an oral exposition of the Doctrinal Preamble docuмent itself.

    With regard to the doctrinal talks it was disappointing to note that the Roman commission failed to acknowledge the break between traditional and conciliar teachings. Instead it insisted upon the ‘hermeneutic (interpretation) of continuity,’ stating that the new teachings included and improved the old!

    It was interesting to learn that the 14th September meeting had not touched upon the doctrinal talks at all, but rather was dedicated to expounding possible practical solutions for the Society.

    So it was perhaps not surprising to learn that the proposed doctrinal basis for any canonical agreement in fact contained all those elements which the Society has consistently rejected, including acceptance of the New Mass and of Vatican II as expressed in the New Catechism. Indeed, the docuмent itself conveys the impression that there is no crisis in the Church...

    Hence the stated consensus of those in attendance was that the Doctrinal Preamble was clearly unacceptable and that the time has certainly not come to pursue any practical agreement as long as the doctrinal issues remain outstanding. It also agreed that the Society should continue its work of insisting upon the doctrinal questions in any contacts with the Roman authorities.

    In many ways we can see the hand of Providence in this meeting, falling as it did on the Feast of the Holy Rosary, given the clarification of Rome’s persistence in the modern errors, and the consequent necessity of continuing with the fight against modernism through fidelity to Catholic Tradition.

    The second day of the meeting was dedicated to its original theme, that of communications and the media.

    * * *


    The Assisi III meeting is taking place on the very day I write these few lines, at which occasion we are holding a day of reparation here at St George’s House, with all-day exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.
    The scandal of this inter-religious gathering can be resumed into three points:
    i/ It commemorates and celebrates the scandal of Assisi I;
    ii/ It replaces the Faith with religious liberty as the means to obtain world peace;
    iii/ It promotes on a practical level relativism and religious indifference.

    Offline Cristera

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    Open Invitation - Post about SSPX, Bp Fellay, SSPX priests
    « Reply #4 on: May 08, 2012, 05:56:53 PM »
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  • Official position of the Dominicans of Avrillé:

    SPES In French

    RC In Spanish


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Open Invitation - Post about SSPX, Bp Fellay, SSPX priests
    « Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 06:18:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ethelred
    The following was originally posted by Fr Morgan on the British SSPX district website, but then made deleted because Bp Fellay was very angry with the good Fr Morgan.

    It should be well possible to look up some Internet cache to get the text again. The original URL was:

    www.sspx.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=390:
    district-superiors-letter-november-2011&catid=114:district-superiors-letter&Itemid=86

    Quote from: Fr Morgan SSPX, District Superior's Letter November 2011

    My dear brethren

    The meeting of the Society’s superiors took place at Albano on 7-8th October as announced in last month’s newsletter, and Bishop Fellay did indeed use this opportunity to discuss the ‘Doctrinal Preamble’ text as received from Cardinal Levada on 14th September.

    The first day of the meeting covered three issues: an overview of the contacts with Rome since 1987; a summary of the doctrinal discussions; and an oral exposition of the Doctrinal Preamble docuмent itself.

    With regard to the doctrinal talks it was disappointing to note that the Roman commission failed to acknowledge the break between traditional and conciliar teachings. Instead it insisted upon the ‘hermeneutic (interpretation) of continuity,’ stating that the new teachings included and improved the old!

    It was interesting to learn that the 14th September meeting had not touched upon the doctrinal talks at all, but rather was dedicated to expounding possible practical solutions for the Society.

    So it was perhaps not surprising to learn that the proposed doctrinal basis for any canonical agreement in fact contained all those elements which the Society has consistently rejected, including acceptance of the New Mass and of Vatican II as expressed in the New Catechism. Indeed, the docuмent itself conveys the impression that there is no crisis in the Church...

    Hence the stated consensus of those in attendance was that the Doctrinal Preamble was clearly unacceptable and that the time has certainly not come to pursue any practical agreement as long as the doctrinal issues remain outstanding. It also agreed that the Society should continue its work of insisting upon the doctrinal questions in any contacts with the Roman authorities.

    In many ways we can see the hand of Providence in this meeting, falling as it did on the Feast of the Holy Rosary, given the clarification of Rome’s persistence in the modern errors, and the consequent necessity of continuing with the fight against modernism through fidelity to Catholic Tradition.

    The second day of the meeting was dedicated to its original theme, that of communications and the media.

    * * *


    The Assisi III meeting is taking place on the very day I write these few lines, at which occasion we are holding a day of reparation here at St George’s House, with all-day exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.
    The scandal of this inter-religious gathering can be resumed into three points:
    i/ It commemorates and celebrates the scandal of Assisi I;
    ii/ It replaces the Faith with religious liberty as the means to obtain world peace;
    iii/ It promotes on a practical level relativism and religious indifference.


       Works for me!!!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 09:11:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cristera
    Official position of the Dominicans of Avrillé:

    SPES In French

    RC In Spanish


    Translation anybody?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Online Nadir

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    « Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 11:56:27 PM »
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  • Dr Thomas Droleskey comments here: http://christorchaos.com/FalseDoctrineFatherPfluger.html
    on Fr Niklaus Pfluger’s conference on the Third Sunday of Easter, 2012, in Hattersheim, Hesse, Germany.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #8 on: May 09, 2012, 06:51:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir
    Dr Thomas Droleskey comments here: http://christorchaos.com/FalseDoctrineFatherPfluger.html
    on Fr Niklaus Pfluger’s conference on the Third Sunday of Easter, 2012, in Hattersheim, Hesse, Germany.


       While I do not support sedevacantism, Dr. Drolesky makes several good points in this article.

       Among them:

    1) "Second, both sides desire to complete a "deal." Leaders of the Society of Saint Pius X believe that their "full communion," to use conciliarspeak, with the counterfeit church of concilairism will help to further the "conversion" of men who have defected from the Faith on numerous points. The conciliarists know that the reverse is true. Their whole goal has been to effect a "pacification of spirits" and to "broaden the horizons" of those who have been too "rigid" and "narrow" and "obstinate." The "spirits" of the priests/presbyters and laity in the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter, the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest, the Society of Saint John Mary Vianney and the Institute of the Good Shepherd have been very pacified."

    2) "Second, Father Pfluger's contention, as provided in the Rorate Caeli summary the conference he gave on Sunday, April 29, 2012, that it would be as hard now to correct and eradicate false doctrines as it was during the period in the Fourth Century after the condemnation of Arianism. This is false contention because the Church had indeed condemned Arianism. Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI will never condemn his brainchild. He wants the members of the Society of Saint Pius X to simply learn how to live as a member of what Bishop Fellay once called the "conciliar zoo" without rattling their cages or banging on the Plexiglas."

    3)  "A translation of Father Pfluger's remarks that appeared on the Angelqueen website, sent me by my good friend Mr. Mark Stabinski, contained a passage that represents nothing other than a complete and total surrender to the foundational premise of the conciliar revolution: Joseph Ratzinger's lifelong warfare against the very nature of dogmatic truth, which is, of course, a direct assault upon the very nature of God Himself:

    That was actually our argument, and then this Pope comes and says: Stop! The council is being interpreted falsely. That was his famous sermon, an important talk, in December, 22 December, 2005, where he said we need a new interpretation of the council. Up until now, people have been abusing the council, in the name of the council, but that isn't what the council wanted. We need a new interpretation and using the greek term, a new hermeneutic, a new understanding... it's not bad, 40 years after the council, to understand the council correctly, and the correct understanding of the council is the hermeneutic of reform.

    So it isn't a contradiction after all, no discontinuity between the council and tradition. It is a continuity, and this continuity is made visible through a healthy reform. That is important for the reason that from now on this is the idea that defines his pontificate. Everything that he does, and thereby the permission for, or the liberation of the ancient mass, plays a very decisive role, everything he does, everything he attempts, is to show that there isn't a break. The council, our main argument for this resistance, for holding firmly to Tradition, for rejecting the ideas of the council, the important ideas of the council -- the Pope wants to say that this argument is no argument at all. It is just... it is just a matter of harmonious development of tradition, this Second Vatican Council. (http://angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42305.)"

       Question on #3: It is not clear to me whether this is a quote from BXVI or from Fr. Pfluger.  Does anyone know?  Is this the Pope explaining the hermeneutic of continuity, or Fr. Pfluger saying the hermeneutic of continuity is OK?



    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #9 on: May 09, 2012, 06:56:20 AM »
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  • The letter from the three other Society Bishops sent to Bishop Fellay.

    Quote
    Lettre au Conseil Général de la Fraternité St Pie X,  le 7 avril 2012

    Offline LordPhan

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    « Reply #10 on: May 09, 2012, 08:36:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: Cristera
    Official position of the Dominicans of Avrillé:

    SPES In French

    RC In Spanish


    Translation anybody?


    Last night I sent off an email asking what was said in those links, the person I asked did not have time to translate the whole thing but did send me back a reply.

    Quote
    Dear James,


    The docuмent is a series of quotations from Archbishop Lefebvre. It ends with a summary, which is this:


    "Rome has lost the faith, my dear friends. Rome is in apostasy.
    These are not words, words in the air I tell you. This is the truth.
    Rome is in apostasy.
    We can no longer have confidence in that world. It left the church, they left the church, they leave the church. That's sure, sure, sure, sure.
    I summarized that to Cardinal Ratzinger in a few words. I told him:
    "Eminence, even if you grant us a bishop,
    even if you give us some independence from the bishops,
    even if you grant us the entire liturgy of 1962,
    if you allow us to continue the seminaries and the Society as we do now,
    we can not work together, it is impossible;
    because we work in diametrically opposite directions:
    you, you work to de-Christianize society, the human person, the Church,
    we, we are working to christianize them.
    We cannot agree. " [...]
    You just say that the society cannot be Christian. "


    Archbishop Lefebvre, the Conference for priests to Econe retreat for priests.
    01. 09. In 1987


    Sounds like they are on our side!


    If you want to know what the rest of it says, let me know.


    We then spoke on the phone, it is basically the Dominicans quoting Archbishop Lefebvre, it includes conversations their Priests and Brothers have had with the Archbishop, they record everything.


    Offline LordPhan

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    « Reply #11 on: May 09, 2012, 08:50:52 AM »
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  • Last night I had requested the first part of that website to be translated, here it is. As the person I asked pointed out to me, the person translated this very literal and accurate not to 'sound good' as it were.

    Quote
    Anthology of texts of Archbishop Lefebvre


    The foundation of our position


    "The real fundamental opposition is the reign of our Lord Jesus Christ. Oportet illum regnare, He must reign, says St. Paul. Our Lord came to rule. They say no, and we, we say yes, with all the popes. Our Lord came not to be hidden inside houses without leave. Why were so many missionaries slaughtered? For preaching that our Lord Jesus Christ is the only true God, for telling the pagans to convert. Therefore, the pagans wanted to get rid of them, but they did not hesitate to give their lives to continue to preach the Lord Jesus Christ. So now, we must do the opposite and tell the pagans: "Your religion is good, keep it as long as you are good Buddhists, good Muslims or good heathens!" This is why we cannot get along with them [Rome], because we obey our Lord telling the apostles: "Go teach the Gospel to the ends of the earth."


    Therefore it should not surprise us that we cannot get along with Rome. This [Getting along with Rome] is not possible as long as Rome will not return to believing in the kingship of our Lord Jesus Christ, as long as it [Rome] gives the impression that all religions are good. We clash on a point of the Catholic faith, just as Cardinal Bea and Cardinal Ottaviani clashed, and as all the popes clashed with liberalism. This is the same thing, the same course, the same ideas and the same divisions within the Church [1] . "


    "We must be free of compromise, just as much as from the sedevacantists and also from those who absolutely want to submit themselves to ecclesiastical authority.
    We wish to remain committed to our Lord Jesus Christ. Now, Vatican II dethroned our Lord. We, we want to remain faithful to our Lord, King, Prince and Ruler of the world. We can not change this course of action.
    So, when we get asked the question when there will be an agreement with Rome, my answer is simple: when Rome recrowns our Lord Jesus Christ. We cannot agree with those who dethrone our Lord. The day they again recognize our Lord King of peoples and nations, it is not us they will have joined, but the Catholic Church in which we live [2]." (The meaning of the last sentence is that Rome will return, not to the Society, but to the Catholic Church.)



    Offline AJNC

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    « Reply #12 on: May 09, 2012, 10:11:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    1) Some people allege a letter was sent by the 3 SSPX bishops to Bishop Fellay stating their opposition to a deal.  Has anyone seen such a letter?

    2) There is also alleged a scene to have taken place at the SSPX district superiors meeting in Albano, in which an old priest stood up and denounced the idea of a sellout to Fr. Pfluger.  Has anyone been given any public and published corroboration by an SSPX priest who was there?

    3) There is also alleged to be widespread opposition to Fr. Pfluger's sellout plan at meetings of the German district priests.  Again: Any verification that can be cited here?

       In other words, all this is nothing more than internet myth.

       Nothing to back the myth.

       Wish there was, but just saying...


    Having picked up our Prior from the airport, maybe a couple of months ago, he told me that the majority of District Superiors were against the deal (probably basing these comments on the Albano meeting). He also told me that the two largest districts, France and the USA were against the deal. I dont remember if he spoke about Germany. He was quite confident that nothing would change as, "the Conciliar Church is just on the verge of collapse!". How wrong he was! Bp Fellay and his link-men have blindsided everyone and they have fired their "exocet" miisiles !

    Offline Ethelred

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    « Reply #13 on: May 09, 2012, 11:03:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: AJNC
    He was quite confident that nothing would change as, "the Conciliar Church is just on the verge of collapse!". How wrong he was! Bp Fellay and his link-men have blindsided everyone and they have fired their "exocet" miisiles !

    Yes, they have.

    However it could be they fired too early (because their ambitions blind them).
    Good for us they're out of ammo soon (or already now?).

    By the way, Fr Schmidberger already opposed Archbishop Lefebvre's 1988 consecration, i.e. the father wanted the assimilation with Newrome all the time. Yes, he's always wanted a FSSP II, i.e. FSSP without X. It's no surprise that he's depressive.

    The latter information is no personal insult but an important fact. If you don't know that he has delusions of grandeur and is depressive you won't understand this man and his delusional acts.
    It's a mystery to me why in Menzingen they show nearly the same behaviour as if it was contagious. Just so that we traditional catholics get the leaders we deserve?

    Offline Ethelred

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    « Reply #14 on: May 09, 2012, 03:08:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    1) Some people allege a letter was sent by the 3 SSPX bishops to Bishop Fellay stating their opposition to a deal.  Has anyone seen such a letter?


    Yes. :-)  For example right now here on Cathinfo :

    General Discussion » Letter of Three SSPX Bishops to Bishop Fellay

    ... plus Menzingen's response which is truly shocking.

    Alert!