Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory  (Read 6507 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest

Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Florida Priory

 

Our Lord Jesus Christ said that “By their fruits you shall know them”. (Mat 7:16) It is no secret that the greatest human instrument for the conversion of non-Catholics is the example of good Catholics who truly live the faith. A traditional Catholic can talk his head away in his attempts to convert non-Catholics, but if he is not a living the Faith, all his talk will be fruitless for even he does not believe what he teaches. On the other hand, a Catholic family that truly lives the faith will convert many more people by their deeds, their example. They are not seen as hypocrites by the world, as the “Catholic in talking only”.

 

One would think that having an SSPX priory with six priests in a small enclosed neighborhood would greatly contribute to the conversion of at least some of the non-Catholics in neighborhood and bring back fallen away Catholics, and they’d be right to think so. However, the Sanford, Florida Priory has had the opposite effect on the community because they are a bad example by their actual deeds, the way they live. The talk around the neighborhood is that the priests are just a group of high life luxury drinkers partying with alcohol. When I first heard this critique, I was perplexed as to how they would have come to this conclusion. I knew that some of the parishioners were scandalized by the luxurious life the priest lead, their $600,000 priory addition (while the school children have been ancient tin portables for 8 years), gourmet meals, expensive liquors and wines, Cuban cigars….., but most of those people have left the chapel. How did the neighborhood conclude that the priests were big drinkers? Then it dawned on me, the neighbors see the glass recycling containers every week with all the bottles of luxury wines, champagnes, Scotch, Cognac………………! The neighborhood has been scandalized by the priests!

It is too late to convert those people in the neighborhood and the parishioners that have been scandalized by the priests at the Sanford Priory. All we can do for them is to pray for them. It is not however too late for the priest to change their ways and stop living the high life and scandalizing the world. My advice to them is to first stop drinking anything but a little wine at your meals and stop having drinking parties with the drinkers in the parish. In doing that you will at least not scandalize the parishioners that are in close contact with you. As far as the neighborhood, even if you keep partying, at least do not put your recycling out in the street, throw it away in the garbage in a black plastic bag. At least they will not see your scandal.

The Douay-Rhiems has the heading of Wine is a Mocker in Proverbs where the first is Wine is a luxurious thing, and drunkenness riotous: whosoever is delighted therewith, shall not be wise.” (Proverbs 20).

 

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 12:08:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • The talk around the neighborhood

     

    Silly me.  And here I thought gossiping was sinful.  Guess not.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 12:10:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Take some pictures of the evidence and then report it to Fr. Wegner

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 12:58:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Take some pictures of the evidence and then report it to Fr. Wegner
    Yeah, but they drink whisky at the district house before doing bloopers vids, so.  One of the biggest casualties of the branding campaign (which is ultimately a worldliness campaign), is that the image of the SSPX priest has changed from that of austere and doctrinally rigorous to that of effeminate, lax, and worldly.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 01:16:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This Anonymous poster really has it in for the Sanford chapel ... but evidently continues to attend Mass there.

    BEFORE coming out publicly with these things and committing the sin of detraction, you really need to report them to their superior. 


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 01:19:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Douay-Rhiems has the heading of Wine is a Mocker in Proverbs where the first is Wine is a luxurious thing, and drunkenness riotous: whosoever is delighted therewith, shall not be wise.” (Proverbs 20).

    We are not Protestants.  There's nothing wrong with drinking in moderation.  Also, with 5 priests living there and often entertaining parishioners and others, how do we even know whether YOUR impression of "excessive" drink is objectively excessive or whether you're poisoned a bit by a latent Puritanism?

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #6 on: January 15, 2020, 01:49:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There is no doubt that Sanford is a worldly, ultra-liberal chapel.

    It’s prior scandalized many when the SSPX published pics of him (and the future superior general, among others) riding roller coasters (vs St. Pius ax’s exhortation for priests to exhibit a sober and grave demeanor).

    And I believe they are also the dialogue mass chapel, with the effeminate band leader gesticulating at the communion rail (French modernism style).

    And the prior was also the one who said it was a mortal sin to refuse a deal with Francis.

    And the prior was also the one who hosted the foul-mouthed South American “toilet plunging” Monsignor in the rectory for several weeks.

    With all that in the background, I guess nothing would surprise me.

    Nevertheless, other posters’ points regarding detraction (particularly of a priest/priests) is serious.  And is the comment that 6 priests plus two dinners with guests/week will produce a good number of empty bottles:

    The prior is French, so he would be accustomed to drinking wine with dinner every day.  That will account for 2 bottles at less than 2 glasses/meal.

    Then, suppose three of the other 5 priests do the same.  Already you are up to 8 empty bottles, drained with complete moderation.

    And then perhaps they have 4 guests, 2x/week, and you drain another 3 bottles.

    So when it is all said and done, they could be tossing away 10-12 bottles/week, and not one of them ever had a 3rd glass!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #7 on: January 15, 2020, 01:54:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The ultimate problem is that they are recycling the bottles and putting them in the plastic bins.  My cousin worked at a waste management company and said that all garbage and "recycled" stuff goes to the same dump.  Recycling doesn't happen at the city level - it's a lie.  Too costly and too much time involved.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #8 on: January 15, 2020, 02:04:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There is no doubt that Sanford is a worldly, ultra-liberal chapel.

    It’s prior scandalized many when the SSPX published pics of him (and the future superior general, among others) riding roller coasters (vs St. Pius ax’s exhortation for priests to exhibit a sober and grave demeanor).

    And I believe they are also the dialogue mass chapel, with the effeminate band leader gesticulating at the communion rail (French modernism style).

    And the prior was also the one who said it was a mortal sin to refuse a deal with Francis.

    And the prior was also the one who hosted the foul-mouthed South American “toilet plunging” Monsignor in the rectory for several weeks.

    With all that in the background, I guess nothing would surprise me.

    Nevertheless, other posters’ points regarding detraction (particularly of a priest/priests) is serious.  And is the comment that 6 priests plus two dinners with guests/week will produce a good number of empty bottles:

    The prior is French, so he would be accustomed to drinking wine with dinner every day.  That will account for 2 bottles at less than 2 glasses/meal.

    Then, suppose three of the other 5 priests do the same.  Already you are up to 8 empty bottles, drained with complete moderation.

    And then perhaps they have 4 guests, 2x/week, and you drain another 3 bottles.

    So when it is all said and done, they could be tossing away 10-12 bottles/week, and not one of them ever had a 3rd glass!
    On the other hand, if daily life involves wine, cigars, exotic meats and cheeses, luxurious furnishings, servants, butlers, and chauffeurs, then it is difficult to defend against the charge of worldliness.
    I remember when I spent a year with the Institute of Christ the King, and was scandalized by such things (ie., It caused me to form the opinion that their excessive fixation on “beauty” was replacing their priestly vocations with the desire to live a Baroque lifestyle, with all its finery).
    I was told (by one of their priests) that the priests needed these fineries: We have left our families and our countries, and these little things make it all bearable.
    Obviously, I disagreed then, and I disagree today.
    I want my priest to be my hero.
    He is held to a (much) higher standard than a bum like me.
    And if he lives up to the ideal, he will lift me up with him.
    And if he fails, I will sink with him.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 33015
    • Reputation: +29314/-599
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #9 on: January 15, 2020, 02:06:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    We are not Protestants.  There's nothing wrong with drinking in moderation.  Also, with 5 priests living there and often entertaining parishioners and others, how do we even know whether YOUR impression of "excessive" drink is objectively excessive or whether you're poisoned a bit by a latent Puritanism?
    This.

    Well-said.

    Also, what Sean said. A priory full of priests, none of whom are Puritan (protestant heresy teaching, among other things, that alcohol use TO ANY DEGREE is sinful), will produce a certain number of empty bottles per week. It is not forbidden to drink other alcoholic beverages either, in moderation.

    You shouldn't be listening to "scuttlebutt in the neighborhood". That is the very definition of gossiping. Non-Catholics have nothing wise to say about a priory of Catholic priests!

    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #10 on: January 15, 2020, 02:09:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • On the other hand, if daily life involves wine, cigars, exotic meats and cheeses, luxurious furnishings, servants, butlers, and chauffeurs, then it is difficult to defend against the charge of worldliness.
    I remember when I spent a year with the Institute of Christ the King, and was scandalized by such things (ie., It caused me to form the opinion that their excessive fixation on “beauty” was replacing their priestly vocations with the desire to live a Baroque lifestyle, with all its finery).
    I was told (by one of their priests) that the priests needed these fineries: We have left our families and our countries, and these little things make it all bearable.
    Obviously, I disagreed then, and I disagree today.

    Thanks for clarifying with this. I fully agree with this as well. We don't want to hand scoffers and infidels something to use in their propaganda against the Faith. We don't want to give them an EXCUSE to remain non-Catholic.

    "Woe unto the world because of scandals." I didn't make up that quote, by the way. I'm sure a priest who has scandalized others by excessive luxury will not even save his soul.

    Matthew


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #11 on: January 15, 2020, 02:32:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://www.eccentricbliss.com/tag/st-thomas-more-priory/

    Priory Hospitality
    What a wonderful evening with the priests of St. Thomas More Priory! Bordeaux wine (my treat), Islay scotch whisky, pipe smoking, fine cheeses and crisps, and especially intelligent conversation. I will be a regular. Such hospitality!

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #12 on: January 15, 2020, 02:56:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • On the other hand, if daily life involves wine, cigars, exotic meats and cheeses, luxurious furnishings, servants, butlers, and chauffeurs, then it is difficult to defend against the charge of worldliness.

    Again, it depends on whether some of this is exaggerated by OP.  St. Pius X used snuff and also smoked cigars.  HOW luxurious?  Was this a regular occurrence or just something from time-to-time to engage the parishioners or even outsiders?  We do not have enough details to form a judgment.

    Now, the $600K spent on an addition to the priory ... that really does seem excessive, along the lines of the VA seminary.  Was this just for the priests' enjoyment or did it include various upgrades to common use areas by the parish (a hall or something)?  Even then, this seems like a lot.  Florida isn't THAT expensive (not like California or something where you can't buy anything for $600K.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #13 on: January 15, 2020, 03:21:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://www.eccentricbliss.com/tag/st-thomas-more-priory/

    Priory Hospitality
    What a wonderful evening with the priests of St. Thomas More Priory! Bordeaux wine (my treat), Islay scotch whisky, pipe smoking, fine cheeses and crisps, and especially intelligent conversation. I will be a regular. Such hospitality!


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Non-Catholics Scandalized by Excessive Drinking at SSPX Sanford Priory
    « Reply #14 on: January 15, 2020, 04:08:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • 5 or more priests at one location is excessive when there are towns who could use Mass at least once a week.