Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: NO Tribunal  (Read 368 times)

1 Member and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
NO Tribunal
« on: Yesterday at 04:07:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Looking for some insight on my status.  I have a sede perspective now but in Tradition since at least 1990

    I was engaged to a heathen who was previously “married” to a Ukrainian catholic - they were married in a Protestant service

    My fiancé petitioned the NO tribunal for relief.  It was decided that the Petrine Privelege was the best route (better than Lack of Form).  This was granted in favor of the husband

    My fiancé was baptized (and confirmed by a NO bishop)

    We were then “married” by a NO priest (who was likely ordained in the old rite) in the traditional manner

    Now I’m divorced from her for two decades

    I’ve maintained my vows

    AM I A MARRIED MAN ? 

    I don’t believe the NO structures have authority

    Thoughts?

    Thanks

    m

    Logged

    Offline Gray2023

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 2929
    • Reputation: +1638/-903
    • Gender: Female
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 04:15:28 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Why are you asking here and not a priest?
    Logged
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Online Godefroy

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 646
    • Reputation: +688/-66
    • Gender: Male
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 04:20:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on Yesterday at 04:07:59 PM
    Looking for some insight on my status.  I have a sede perspective now but in Tradition since at least 1990

    I was engaged to a heathen who was previously “married” to a Ukrainian catholic - they were married in a Protestant service

    My fiancé petitioned the NO tribunal for relief.  It was decided that the Petrine Privelege was the best route (better than Lack of Form).  This was granted in favor of the husband

    My fiancé was baptized (and confirmed by a NO bishop)

    We were then “married” by a NO priest (who was likely ordained in the old rite) in the traditional manner

    Now I’m divorced from her for two decades

    I’ve maintained my vows

    AM I A MARRIED MAN ?

    I don’t believe the NO structures have authority

    Thoughts?

    Thanks

    m
    Why wouldn't you be married? The mariage is a contract between you and your wife whilst the priest is a witness

    I suspect all trad groups from Sede to SSPX would consider a mariage witnessed by a Novus Ordo priest as valid. 

    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 04:23:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I’ve asked to meet my priest but nothing set up yet.  But also, I don’t think a parish priest can make an authoritative judgement on this issue and there’s a wealth of knowledge in this forum.  Looking to inform my conscience 
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 04:26:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Godefroy - understood 

    BUT

    Was she validly married to the other guy first?  
    Logged

    Online Godefroy

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 646
    • Reputation: +688/-66
    • Gender: Male
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 04:30:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on Yesterday at 04:26:17 PM
    Godefroy - understood

    BUT

    Was she validly married to the other guy first? 
    Your question has promted me rethink my previous answer. Now I'm not so sure, because a trad priest would say that a protestant mariage has no validity, yet it could also be argued that a Novos Ordo mariage is akin to a protestant mariage. 

    Let us know if you hear from a priest :) 
    Logged

    Offline Gray2023

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 2929
    • Reputation: +1638/-903
    • Gender: Female
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 04:52:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on Yesterday at 04:26:17 PM
    Godefroy - understood

    BUT

    Was she validly married to the other guy first? 
    She was an unbaptized person married to a Catholic? Doesn't that mean there was no marriage?  She got baptized and married you, correct? 

    It would seem that your marriage is valid and the first marriage was not.  (But I have no authority and little understanding, this is just my gut reaction.)
    Logged
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 04:56:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Godefroy, I will follow-up

    The validity question is much more nuanced though.  The religion(s) involved, prior “marriages”, the place and form of the ceremony, the ordinary’s approval, etc.

    Previously I had moral faith in the NO Tribunal tasked with wading through all the complicating factors.  I don’t have that certitude now and in this day and age I don’t see a competent authority on the horizon
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 05:00:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Gray

    I believe baptized can validly marry the un-baptized though it wouldn’t be a sacramental marriage
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 05:03:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Have you heard of natural marriages? Even the pagans have marriage which we must respect. 

    It's not a game of - I don't like the priest now. The Church is looking for evidence of a marriage....
    Logged

    Offline Gray2023

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 2929
    • Reputation: +1638/-903
    • Gender: Female
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 05:08:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on Yesterday at 04:07:59 PM
    Looking for some insight on my status.  I have a sede perspective now but in Tradition since at least 1990

    I was engaged to a heathen who was previously “married” to a Ukrainian catholic - they were married in a Protestant service

    My fiancé petitioned the NO tribunal for relief.  It was decided that the Petrine Privelege was the best route (better than Lack of Form).  This was granted in favor of the husband

    My fiancé was baptized (and confirmed by a NO bishop)

    We were then “married” by a NO priest (who was likely ordained in the old rite) in the traditional manner

    Now I’m divorced from her for two decades

    I’ve maintained my vows

    AM I A MARRIED MAN ?

    I don’t believe the NO structures have authority

    Thoughts?

    Thanks

    m
    I have questions, please forgive their intrusive nature.  Why does this matter, really?  Have you found a new person?  If so, prayers because this is very difficult situation to sort through, and you really need to talk to a priest who understands these things well.  Or is this just a matter of curiosity?
    Logged
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 05:15:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Nobody new but more than curious - shooting for moral certainty.  In the absence of that, I’ll hang onto my vows

    Indeed, it been a rough go…
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 06:27:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Gray2023 on Yesterday at 04:52:35 PM
    She was an unbaptized person married to a Catholic? Doesn't that mean there was no marriage?  She got baptized and married you, correct? 

    It would seem that your marriage is valid and the first marriage was not.  (But I have no authority and little understanding, this is just my gut reaction.)
    The first marriage can still be valid. It's possible that non-catholics and Catholics can be married. A good priest will need ALL the details.
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 08:20:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Infidels cannot validly marry the baptized. If your wife was unbaptized when she married the Ukrainian, that was not a valid marriage. 
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: NO Tribunal
    « Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 08:39:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on Yesterday at 08:20:54 PM
    Infidels cannot validly marry the baptized. If your wife was unbaptized when she married the Ukrainian, that was not a valid marriage.
    This isn't true. A mixed marriage can infact be valid.
    Logged
    Pages: [1] 2
    « previous next »