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Author Topic: No more mercy left from heaven  (Read 2897 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: No more mercy left from heaven
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2019, 04:05:13 PM »
God is a perfectly simple being.  He does not vary, as do human beings, from being just one moment and then merciful the next.  Every act of His is at the same time both perfectly just and perfectly merciful.  Flabius ignores the part about mercy, because he has none.  Flabius, you should be very afraid for your soul, since, as Our Lord taught, with whatever measure you judge others, so too will you be judged.  Show mercy, and you will be shown mercy.  Please meditate on the corollary to this.

In any case, as I said, every act of God is both at the same time perfectly just AND perfectly merciful.  He may in fact withhold graces when He knows they will be rejected, and in this way the souls is spared the additional punishment for having rejected the grace.

Catholic predestination, however, works within the bounds of free will.  At no point is the will fixed toward the end, and it is in fact more in line with foreknowledge than it is with any curtailment of free will ... so not the Jansenist view held by Flabius.

Online Ladislaus

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Re: No more mercy left from heaven
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2019, 04:10:22 PM »
So he withdraws the grace? Not very reassuring but if that's the case ..

You need to just man up and stop wringing your hands about this.  You're excessively indulging in self pity, and you need to snap out of this.  Focus on God rather than yourself, and then you'll be at peace.  There was a saint who was tormented for years with the thought that he would end up in hell.  He snapped out of it, finally, when God gave him the light and the strength to say, "Dear God, if that is your will that I end up in hell, so be it, but in the meantime I will love you and serve you to the best of my ability."  You're way too caught up worrying about your own fate ... to the point that it's distracting you from focusing on God.  Make the resolution to focus on God regardless of your own fate, which with childlike confidence you can safely place in His hands, and your salvation will "take care of itself" as it were.  Look to the purer motivations to love God ... rather than the self-absorbed motivation of what's in it for you.


Re: No more mercy left from heaven
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2019, 04:10:56 PM »
Predestination is a Catholic teaching. God is free to predestine some to eternal glory and withhold His grace from others leaving them in their sins without consideration of foreseen merit.

"I answer that, God does reprobate some. For it was said above (Article 1) that predestination is a part of providence. To providence, however, it belongs to permit certain defects in those things which are subject to providence, as was said above (Question 22, Article 2). Thus, as men are ordained to eternal life through the providence of God, it likewise is part of that providence to permit some to fall away from that end; this is called reprobation. Thus, as predestination is a part of providence, in regard to those ordained to eternal salvation, so reprobation is a part of providence in regard to those who turn aside from that end. Hence reprobation implies not only foreknowledge, but also something more, as does providence, as was said above (Question 22, Article 1). Therefore, as predestination includes the will to confer grace and glory; so also reprobation includes the will to permit a person to fall into sin, and to impose the punishment of damnation on account of that sin." ST I, q. 23, a. 3

"God wills to manifest His goodness in men; in respect to those whom He predestines, by means of His mercy, as sparing them; and in respect of others, whom he reprobates, by means of His justice, in punishing them. This is the reason why God elects some and rejects others. To this the Apostle refers, saying (Romans ix., 22-23): "What if God, willing to show His wrath [that is, the vengeance of His justice], and to make His power known, endured [that is, permitted] with much patience vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction; that He might show the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He hath prepared unto glory" and (2 Timothy ii., 20): "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver; but also of wood and of earth; and some, indeed, unto honor, but some unto dishonor." Yet why He chooses some for glory, and reprobates others, has no reason, except the divine will. Whence Augustine says (Tract. xxvi. in Joan.): "Why He draws one, and another He draws not, seek not to judge, if thou dost not wish to err." ST I, q. 23, a. 5, ad 3
Predestination in the sense that some souls are predestined for Heaven is Catholic teaching. However, those souls are very few, and the Church DOES NOT teach that any souls are predestined for Hell. So the matter of whether or not your souls is predestined for Heaven is not something you should worry about, you almost certainly aren't - but you still can go to Heaven. 

Online Ladislaus

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Re: No more mercy left from heaven
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2019, 04:31:02 PM »
Catholic predestination is simply the fact that God will the damnation of those whom He has foreseen will deserve it.  Anything else is to effectively state that God will sin itself, and thus the Calvinistic error.  But such a knowledge and will can exist only in the mind of God, who sees all time at the same instant.  God knows that a certain soul will cause its own damnation, so then He wills the damnation that he caused of his own free will.  So long as you are alive, you are not in that category.  Catholic predestination is never a cause for despair.  So we need to stop worrying about the future, which only God knows, and take care of the present, and then the future will take care of itself.

Online Ladislaus

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Re: No more mercy left from heaven
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2019, 04:33:46 PM »
I was in no way referring to double predestination if you had assumed that.

Look.  What is wrong with you, man?  We have in the OP a soul who's being tempted to despair, and what do you do?  You cite predestination in such a way as to confirm his paranoia.  "Yep, God could be withholding grace from you and abandoning you."  You might as well be giving a nudge to a person standing on a ledge contemplating whether to jump.  Are you deranged?  There's something wrong with you; you need to see a good Catholic psychologist.  There's no such things in reality as God abandoning any soul.  It's the soul that abandons God, as God wills the salvation of all.