Author Topic: Mystical City of God: Burned and Condemned by Popes (Read 5621 times)

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #30 on:** December 31, 2018, 05:12:42 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on December 31, 2018, 03:12:15 AM

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Ven. Mary of Agreda's Mystical City of God has been under attack from the devil since even before it was published.
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What else is new? All these silly arguments have been demolished centuries ago.
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There never has been and there never will be any book with more papal commendations over a longer span of time.
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First there is the true Mass, then comes sacred Scripture, then there is the Rosary and in fourth place is City of God.
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End of story.

What a gratuitous, false, and emotional comment (exactly the reasons for criticism of the book)!
As though the book had more papal commendations than, for example, St. Alphonsus Liguori’s Theologian Moralis (which by the way was never condemned by multiple pope’s, as was the Mystical City if God).
And of course, your emotionalistic fanaticism would have Agreda’s work rank higher than the Summa Theological, The Imitation of Christ, all the writings of the Popes, Fathers, and Doctors of the Church, etc.
Precisely the problem with these kinds of books, as noted by Archbishop Lefebvre.

Quid Retribuam Domino · « **Reply #31 on:** December 31, 2018, 07:27:40 AM »

How reliable is Tradidi as a citation? I've never heard of that site until this thread. If you're going to say the Mystical City of God was condemned by multiple popes, then you need to give more credible citations. If it was condemned, were those condemnations lifted by subsequent popes prior to Vatican II? If yes, why do you fail to mention that fact?

Instead of spouting off things with no sources on an anonymous sub-forum, you need to provide the sources to back your claims. Get to work.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #32 on:** December 31, 2018, 07:38:53 AM »

Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on December 31, 2018, 07:27:40 AM

How reliable is Tradidi as a citation? I've never heard of that site until this thread. If you're going to say the Mystical City of God was condemned by multiple popes, then you need to give more credible citations. If it was condemned, were those condemnations lifted by subsequent popes prior to Vatican II? If yes, why do you fail to mention that fact?

Instead of spouting off things with no sources on an anonymous sub-forum, you need to provide the sources to back your claims. Get to work.

Actually, its "How reliable was Archbishop Lefebvre?"
He is the one warning the faithful against these books (along with priests of the old SSPX).
And had you bothered to pay any attention to the OP and the post which followed, you could have answered your own questions regarding the papal condemnations of Popes Innocent XI (1681) and Benedict XIII (1729), and the book being placed on the Index at the latter occasion.

Quid Retribuam Domino · « **Reply #33 on:** December 31, 2018, 07:42:45 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on December 31, 2018, 07:38:53 AM

Actually, its "How reliable was Archbishop Lefebvre?"
He is the one warning the faithful against these books (along with priests of the old SSPX).
And had you bothered to pay any attention to the OP and the post which followed, you could have answered your own questions regarding the papal condemnations of Popes Innocent XI (1681) and Benedict XIII (1729), and the book being placed on the Index at the latter occasion.

According to whom? Give the citation.

I checked the Index (1948), and I couldn't find it on there.

After glancing over Tradidi, it actually looks like a good site, but that doesn't mean they're correct about the City of God. They need to cite what they claim.

Give some links to the citations.

GET TO WORK !!

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #34 on:** December 31, 2018, 07:53:24 AM »

Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on December 31, 2018, 07:42:45 AM

According to whom? Give the citation.

I checked the Index (1948), and I couldn't find it on there.

After glancing over Tradidi, it actually looks like a good site, but that doesn't mean they're correct about the City of God. They need to cite what they claim.

GET TO WORK !!

Once again, who is citing Tradidi as an authority??
It is the opinion of Lefebvre and the authorities mentioned in Fr. Lafitte's letter (and the post which follows) which are the basis of the skepticism about the Mystical City of God.
PS: Benedict XIII appears to have revoked his condemnation and authorized reading of the work. What I find interesting is that supporters of Valtorta and Agreda (as well as Sr. Faustina, I might add) all invoke faulty translations and injustice as the cause of temporary condemnations, which is interesting to me.

Quid Retribuam Domino · « **Reply #35 on:** December 31, 2018, 08:25:06 AM »

Quote

Anonymous said:
Once again, who is citing Tradidi as an authority??
It is the opinion of Lefebvre and the authorities mentioned in Fr. Lafitte's letter (and the post which follows) which are the basis of the skepticism about the Mystical City of God.
PS: Benedict XIII appears to have revoked his condemnation and authorized reading of the work. What I find interesting is that supporters of Valtorta and Agreda (as well as Sr. Faustina, I might add) all invoke faulty translations and injustice as the cause of temporary condemnations, which is interesting to me.

Give links to the citations of the condemnations. It being stated on Tradidi isn't really a citation.

Don't lump suspect Valtorta and fraudster Faustina with Agreda. We're strictly talking about the Mystical City of God, not the Poem and "Divine Mercy" writings that are littered with filth and goofy errors that laid the groundwork for Communion in the hand and other sacrilegious novelties, and was a psychological framework to derive the "spirit" of Vatican II that essentially teaches God's "Divine Mercy" will save everyone - keep sinning because God's love is bigger than your sins - you're saved anyway.

Btw, +Lefebvre also taught that non-Catholics can make it to Heaven, and He didn't believe in the urgency of water baptism for people interested in converting to the Catholic Faith while they lived in potentially unstable, life-threatening environments. He was wrong there, and he was wrong about the City of God.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #36 on:** December 31, 2018, 08:35:49 AM »

Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on December 31, 2018, 08:25:06 AM

Give links to the citations of the condemnations. It being stated on Tradidi isn't really a citation.

Don't lump fraudster Faustina and suspect Valtorta with Agreda. We're strictly talking about the Mystical City of God, not the Poem and "Divine Mercy" writings that are littered with filth and goofy errors that laid that groundwork for Communion in the hand and other sacrilegious novelties, and was a psychological framework to derive the "spirit" of Vatican II that essentially teaches God's "Divine Mercy" will save everyone - keep sinning because God's love is bigger than your sins - you're saved anyway.

Btw, +Lefebvre also taught that non-Catholics can make it to Heaven, and He didn't believe in the urgency of water baptism for people interested in converting to the Catholic Faith while they lived in potentially unstable environments. He's wrong there, and he's wrong about the City of God.

Tradidi itself gives the citations for Fr. Lafitte’s and ABL’s articles/conferences.
Archbishop Lefebvre’s advice suffices for me, but apparently not for you.
But if you will not accept Lefebvre’s (and the old SSPX’s) caution, why would you accept mine?
If you want to prove Lefebvre’s caution is unfounded, then I turn your injunction back upon you, and say “get to work.”
Like the Valtortists and Faustinists, I think there is a certain percentage of Agredists who will be predetermined to defend their position regardless of whatever argumentation can be raised against the book.

Quid Retribuam Domino · « **Reply #37 on:** December 31, 2018, 08:39:42 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on December 31, 2018, 08:35:49 AM

Tradidi itself gives the citations for Fr. Lafitte’s and ABL’s articles/conferences.
Archbishop Lefebvre’s advice suffices for me, but apparently not for you.
But if you will not accept Lefebvre’s (and the old SSPX’s) caution, why would you accept mine?
If you want to prove Lefebvre’s caution is unfounded, then I turn your injunction back upon you, and say “get to work.”
Like the Valtortists and Faustinists, I think there is a certain percentage of Agredists who will be predetermined to defend their position regardless of whatever argumentation can be raised against the book.

That's what I thought, you have no credible citation. You can't even post a link to the Index showing it's on there.

The Index (1948) that I posted doesn't have the City of God on there, unless I missed it.

"whatever argumentation can be raised against the book" ... LOL, yeah, the only "argumentation" that can be raised against the book is that the details of the lives of Blessed Mary and Jesus are "too concrete". The criticisms don't mention any of the actual details. Where's the heresy? Where's the scandal? Give us some details. They've already been outlined for decades in Valtorta's and Faustina's productions.

Get to work.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #38 on:** December 31, 2018, 09:08:10 AM »

Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on December 31, 2018, 08:39:42 AM

That's what I thought, you have no credible citation. You can't even post a link to the Index showing it's on there.

The Index (1948) that I posted doesn't have the City of God on there, unless I missed it.

"whatever argumentation can be raised against the book" ... LOL, yeah, the only "argumentation" that can be raised against the book is that the details of the lives of Blessed Mary and Jesus are "too concrete". The criticisms don't mention any of the actual details. Where's the heresy? Where's the scandal? Give us some details. They've already been outlined for decades in Valtorta's and Faustina's productions.

Get to work.

The book was not on the Index in 1948 (I already mentioned that it was Indexed in 1681, and then subsequently “rehabilitated”);
It was condemned by 102 of 150 doctors of theology at the Sorbonne, and provided the link where this info is contained in the 2nd post of this thread, as well as the reasons for that condemnation;
It was also mentioned in the same first two posts of this thread (which contained links to each article) that not only was the cause for canonization of Mary of Agreda definitely halted because of this book, but also that even Cardinal Ratzinger and the conciliarists take issue with it.
Bishop Tissier de Mallerais also sponsored and endorsed a book in 1993 by a French SSPX priest cautioning the faithful against these books.

If in order to clear the Mystical City, you wish to dispute the veracity of the citations or claims of these authors, please do so.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #39 on:** December 31, 2018, 09:34:04 AM »

This would be problematic for me, if true.

Quid Retribuam Domino · « **Reply #40 on:** December 31, 2018, 09:36:01 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on December 31, 2018, 09:08:10 AM

The book was not on the Index in 1948 (I already mentioned that it was Indexed in 1681, and then subsequently “rehabilitated”);
It was condemned by 102 of 150 doctors of theology at the Sorbonne, and provided the link where this info is contained in the 2nd post of this thread, as well as the reasons for that condemnation;
It was also mentioned in the same first two posts of this thread (which contained links to each article) that not only was the cause for canonization of Mary of Agreda definitely halted because of this book, but also that even Cardinal Ratzinger and the conciliarists take issue with it.
Bishop Tissier de Mallerais also sponsored and endorsed a book in 1993 by a French SSPX priest cautioning the faithful against these books.

If in order to clear the Mystical City, you wish to dispute the veracity of the citations or claims of these authors, please do so.

"Divine Mercy" diaries was condemned and put on the Index in 1959 by the Holy Office whose prelates were appointed by Pope Pius XII.

Poem of Man-God was on the Index from almost day one until anti-pope Montini abolished the Index in the 1960s.

The Mystical City of God was taken off the Index long before Vatican II. This act by Holy Mother Church, de facto, refutes the veracity of the claims of the aforementioned authors, +Lefebvre, et al, in advance.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #41 on:** December 31, 2018, 09:41:16 AM »

Fr Lafitte claims Mary Agreda claims that her book is completely revealed and inspired directly by God, and concludes this would be tantamount to the Church having TWO inspired books: the Bible and the Mystical City.

Is that your take?

Quid Retribuam Domino · « **Reply #42 on:** December 31, 2018, 09:45:42 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on December 31, 2018, 09:41:16 AM

Fr Lafitte claims Mary Agreda claims that her book is completely revealed and inspired directly by God, and concludes this would be tantamount to the Church having TWO inspired books: the Bible and the Mystical City.

Fr. Lafitte claims it. Understand the difference? Where in the actual writings of the Mystical City of God does she directly make that statement?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #43 on:** December 31, 2018, 09:48:06 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous on December 31, 2018, 09:41:16 AM

Fr Lafitte claims Mary Agreda claims that her book is completely revealed and inspired directly by God, and concludes this would be tantamount to the Church having TWO inspired books: the Bible and the Mystical City.

Where did he get that and who is this Fr LaFitte?

Wikipedia says: Jean Lafitte (c. 1780 – c. 1823) was a French pirate and privateer in the Gulf of Mexico in the early 19th century.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #44 on:** December 31, 2018, 09:56:25 AM »

Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on December 31, 2018, 09:45:42 AM

Fr. Lafitte claims it. Understand the difference? Where in the actual writings of the Mystical City of God does she directly make that statement?

So you deny this claim is in the book?
And if I can show such a claim IS in the book, will reject the claim of its divine inspiration, or accept it as such?

Author Topic: Mystical City of God: Burned and Condemned by Popes (Read 5621 times)

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