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Author Topic: My family is my enemy  (Read 4269 times)

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Änσnymσus

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My family is my enemy
« on: May 10, 2012, 07:54:04 PM »
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  • Virtually every family member of mine is now my enemy. I've probably been too blunt in making known my views of them as complete worldlings. They know very clearly what I think of them, as being totally sold out to this world. They know of my complete contempt for their nightly television lineup, their People magazines, their stinking rock music, their mindless movies and books, their tastes that shift with every fashion, and all the rest of it.

    I'm not very good at the art of worldly wisdom.


    Offline PereJoseph

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 08:44:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Virtually every family member of mine is now my enemy. I've probably been too blunt in making known my views of them as complete worldlings. They know very clearly what I think of them, as being totally sold out to this world. They know of my complete contempt for their nightly television lineup, their People magazines, their stinking rock music, their mindless movies and books, their tastes that shift with every fashion, and all the rest of it.

    I'm not very good at the art of worldly wisdom.


    Read Saint Bonaventure's life of the Seraphic Patriarch, Saint Francis of Assisi, to overcome and combat against the vices of indiscreet zeal and bitterness.


    Offline Matthew

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 10:20:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: PereJoseph
    Quote from: Guest
    Virtually every family member of mine is now my enemy. I've probably been too blunt in making known my views of them as complete worldlings. They know very clearly what I think of them, as being totally sold out to this world. They know of my complete contempt for their nightly television lineup, their People magazines, their stinking rock music, their mindless movies and books, their tastes that shift with every fashion, and all the rest of it.

    I'm not very good at the art of worldly wisdom.


    Read Saint Bonaventure's life of the Seraphic Patriarch, Saint Francis of Assisi, to overcome and combat against the vices of indiscreet zeal and bitterness.


    I was going to say the same thing, PereJoseph, but when I re-read what he describes -- I'd be pretty frustrated too. They're not just average worldly, it sounds like. They're 100% full-tilt sold on the world's happiness.
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    Änσnymσus

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 10:22:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: PereJoseph
    vices of indiscreet zeal and bitterness.



    Whoah.  I did not know these were vices.  Zeal and bitterness...that's indiscreet.

    Seems so elemental.  I wish I could catch onto the basic disciplines of life, such as this.  

    Offline Jitpring

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 10:42:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Virtually every family member of mine is now my enemy. I've probably been too blunt in making known my views of them as complete worldlings. They know very clearly what I think of them, as being totally sold out to this world. They know of my complete contempt for their nightly television lineup, their People magazines, their stinking rock music, their mindless movies and books, their tastes that shift with every fashion, and all the rest of it.

    I'm not very good at the art of worldly wisdom.


    I understand where you're coming from. Believe me. But be careful.

    3 meditations:

    James 3:11-18:

    Quote
    Doth a fountain send forth, out of the same hole, sweet and bitter water? [12] Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear grapes; or the vine, figs? So neither can the salt water yield sweet. [13] Who is a wise man, and endued with knowledge among you? Let him shew, by a good conversation, his work in the meekness of wisdom. [14] But if you have bitter zeal, and there be contentions in your hearts; glory not, and be not liars against the truth. [15] For this is not wisdom, descending from above: but earthly, sensual, devilish.

    [16] For where envying and contention is, there is inconstancy, and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom, that is from above, first indeed is chaste, then peaceable, modest, easy to be persuaded, consenting to the good, full of mercy and good fruits, without judging, without dissimulation. [18] And the fruit of justice is sown in peace, to them that make peace.


    St. Vincent Ferrer:

    Quote
    Regard yourself as more vile and miserable in the sight of God because of your faults than any sinner whatsoever, no matter what his sins.


    St. Francis de Sales, from his Treatise on the Love of God:

    Quote
    It is true, indeed, my friend Theotimus, that Moses, Phinees, Elias, Mathathias and many great servants of God made use of anger in the exercise of their zeal, on many remarkable occasions, yet note also, I pray you, that those were great souls, who could well handle their passions and regulate their anger; like that brave captain of the Gospel who said to his soldiers: go, and they went, come, and they came: but we, who are, all of us, but common little people, have no such power over our movements; our horse is not so well broken in, that we can make him gallop or stop at our pleasure. Wise and well trained hounds run afield or come back according to the huntsman's call, but untrained young hounds break away and are disobedient. Great saints who have made their passions tractable, mortifying them by the exercise of virtue, can also turn about their anger as they like, send it out and draw it back as seems good to them; but we, who have unbridled passions, quite young, or at least mistaught, cannot let our anger go save at peril of great disorder, for being once loose we can no longer restrain or regulate it.

    ...

    S. Thomas Aquinas, that great star of theology, being sick of the disease of which he died, at the Monastery of Fossanuova, of the order of Citeaux, the religious besought him to make them a short exposition of the Canticle of Canticles in imitation of S. Bernard, and he answered them: "My dear fathers, give me S. Bernard's spirit and I will interpret this divine Canticle like S. Bernard." So verily, if it were said to one of us petty, miserable, imperfect and wretched Christians: use anger and indignation in your zeal, as did Phinees, Elias, Mathathias, S. Peter and S. Paul: we ought to reply: give us the spirit of perfection and pure zeal, with the interior light which those great saints had, and we will arm ourselves with anger as they did. It is not the fortune of every one to know how to be angry when and as he ought.


    Those great saints were immediately inspired by God, and therefore might boldly employ their anger without peril; for the same Spirit which animated them to these great acts also held the reins of their just wrath lest they might transgress the prescribed bounds. Anger which is inspired or excited by the Holy Ghost is no longer the anger of man, and it is man's wrath that we are to beware of, because, as S. James says: The anger of man worketh not the justice of God. And indeed, when those great servants of God made use of anger, it was on occurrences so solemn and for crimes so excessive, that there was no danger that the punishment would exceed the fault.

    ...

    Zeal may be practised in three ways. First in performing great actions of justice to repel evil; and this belongs only to those who have the public offices of correcting, censuring, and reprehending in quality of superiors, such as princes, prelates, magistrates, preachers: but since this office is honourable, every one undertakes it, every one will have to do with it. Secondly, one may use zeal by doing actions of great virtue in order to give good example, by suggesting remedies for evils, and exhorting men to apply them, by effecting the good that is opposite to the evil which we desire to banish. This belongs to every one, and yet few will to do it. Finally, the most excellent use of zeal lies in suffering and enduring much to hinder or divert evil, and scarce any will have this sort of zeal. A specious zeal is all our ambition; upon that, each one willingly spends his talent, never attending to the fact that it is not zeal indeed which is thereby sought but glory, the satisfaction of our pride, anger, annoyance and other passions.

    ...

    "O how happy is he," says S. Ambrose, who knows how to discipline zeal!" "The devil will easily," says S. Bernard, "delude thy zeal, if thou neglect knowledge; therefore let thy zeal be inflamed with charity, adorned with knowledge, established in constancy." True zeal is the child of charity as being its ardour; wherefore, like to charity, it is patient, is kind, envieth not, dealeth not perversely, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, rejoiceth in the truth. The ardour of true zeal resembles that of the huntsman, being diligent, careful, active, industrious, eager in pursuit, but without passion, anger or disquiet, for if the huntsman's work were done in anger, bad temper and vexation, it would not be so much loved and desired. Zeal in like manner has ardours which are extreme, but constant, solid, sweet, industrious, equally agreeable and untiring; whereas on the contrary, false zeal is turbulent, troubled, insolent, arrogant, choleric, transient, equally impetuous and inconstant.
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**


    Änσnymσus

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 11:23:00 PM »
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  • I have had lots of "drama" with my family. Firstly, pray for them. On your knees. That God give them the grace to profess and practice the Faith. I myself need to start doing this.

    Secondly, you can choose your friends, but you cannot choose your family. These are the relatives that the Lord our God gave you. With so much discord and problems outside of the family, I would tell you to try your darndest to work things out for them. Do the little things, and by your charitable example, lead them to the true Faith.

    I realize that I have to love my family unconditionally, in spite of all the rough times. Unconditional love, in imitation of Our Lord.

    Offline Alex

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 11:23:45 PM »
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  • What I don't understand is how can someone who is living the life of grace be a worse sinner than someone who is in mortal sin and living a worldly life? I mean reality is reality. The latter is a greater sinner than the former. I am not talking about the fact that even a person in grace has the potential to sin (save for the grace of God). How did the saints actually see themselves as worse sinners. Sorry but that is against truth.

    Änσnymσus

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 11:25:48 PM »
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  • All my family members did the same to me!  We, (9 children) were all raised Catholic in a Catholic school.  Even my mother gave scandal to the family. My dad died and 5 years later, she marries a twice divorced protestant in my aunt home by her minister and who joins my mother, by brother and makes it a double ceremony. And the so-called catholic priest told my mother she could do this, and get an annulment for the new husband and then she would be without sacraments and then she would go to confession a year later and be catholic again with sacraments.  When I told my siblings that mom was in mortal sin and I refused to see this man as my step dad, that just made me out of the family!  I have a sister who emailed me today, about her and her native husband who have no religion are playing drums and such to their native god, 2 sisters who decided on adultery more than once and split their families up.  A real mess!  They don't like me too much!  Oh well they got my prayers!


    Änσnymσus

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 11:27:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Virtually every family member of mine is now my enemy. I've probably been too blunt in making known my views of them as complete worldlings. They know very clearly what I think of them, as being totally sold out to this world. They know of my complete contempt for their nightly television lineup, their People magazines, their stinking rock music, their mindless movies and books, their tastes that shift with every fashion, and all the rest of it.

    I'm not very good at the art of worldly wisdom.


    Well, did you always point out their sinful ways. I didn't point out that often, yet in the minds of my family, I was bombarding them with it. So I can imagine how your family would turn against you. Even if you don't say anything but just refuse to do what they do and tell them why you can't do that, they will see that as preaching to them.

    Änσnymσus

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #9 on: May 11, 2012, 12:49:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: PereJoseph
    Quote from: Guest
    Virtually every family member of mine is now my enemy. I've probably been too blunt in making known my views of them as complete worldlings. They know very clearly what I think of them, as being totally sold out to this world. They know of my complete contempt for their nightly television lineup, their People magazines, their stinking rock music, their mindless movies and books, their tastes that shift with every fashion, and all the rest of it.

    I'm not very good at the art of worldly wisdom.


    Read Saint Bonaventure's life of the Seraphic Patriarch, Saint Francis of Assisi, to overcome and combat against the vices of indiscreet zeal and bitterness.


    I was going to say the same thing, PereJoseph, but when I re-read what he describes -- I'd be pretty frustrated too. They're not just average worldly, it sounds like. They're 100% full-tilt sold on the world's happiness.


    Sounds just like my own family.  I have done much to damage their impression of the Faith in the past through my indiscreet zeal; it has been an uphill battle since then to repair the damage through patient explanation and, sometimes, silence.  It can certainly be frustrating to not call out everything that I see, but those who are not willing to hear correction will only become resentful when it comes.  They need first to be open to the Faith by my positive example; then they will listen more.  I learned this the hard way.  I don't want others to repeat my mistakes.  And my family meets all of the poster's descriptions and even surpasses them.

    Änσnymσus

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #10 on: May 11, 2012, 12:52:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Guest
    Virtually every family member of mine is now my enemy. I've probably been too blunt in making known my views of them as complete worldlings. They know very clearly what I think of them, as being totally sold out to this world. They know of my complete contempt for their nightly television lineup, their People magazines, their stinking rock music, their mindless movies and books, their tastes that shift with every fashion, and all the rest of it.

    I'm not very good at the art of worldly wisdom.


    Well, did you always point out their sinful ways. I didn't point out that often, yet in the minds of my family, I was bombarding them with it. So I can imagine how your family would turn against you. Even if you don't say anything but just refuse to do what they do and tell them why you can't do that, they will see that as preaching to them.


    What you say certainly matches my own experience.  I've seen the same thing from the families of many other traditional Catholics.


    Offline ggreg

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #11 on: May 11, 2012, 11:10:35 AM »
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  • My family are all practising Catholics all 80 whatever of them.

    Offline wallflower

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #12 on: May 11, 2012, 11:57:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: Alex
    What I don't understand is how can someone who is living the life of grace be a worse sinner than someone who is in mortal sin and living a worldly life? I mean reality is reality. The latter is a greater sinner than the former. I am not talking about the fact that even a person in grace has the potential to sin (save for the grace of God). How did the saints actually see themselves as worse sinners. Sorry but that is against truth.


    It's because to whom more is given more is also expected. When a person understands the enormity of the graces they have received and has a deep gratitude for them, then they also have a greater realization of having no excuse for their sins.

    A saint or someone on the path to sanctity will be more likely to have compassion on sinners around them in a "they know not what they do" kind of way but would never excuse themselves that way because they do know better.

    Also being closer to God makes their trangressions more personal and offensive. Kind of like if a stranger in the store said something behind your back it would hurt less than if you found out your mother-in-law or spouse or best friend was talking behind your back. Proximity in relationship makes a difference in how offensive a trangression is.

    They also understand in a profound way "there but for the grace of God go I", that they themselves ARE just as bad if not worse. They don't see it as a potential, they see it as a reality. Because it is a reality. All that is good about them comes from God, not themselves, so they aren't just "potentially" evil, they ARE evil but for Him.

    That's how I always understood it anyway. Between all three of those points its easy to see how the saints would consider themselves the worst of sinners.

    Änσnymσus

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 03:53:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Virtually every family member of mine is now my enemy. I've probably been too blunt in making known my views of them as complete worldlings. They know very clearly what I think of them, as being totally sold out to this world. They know of my complete contempt for their nightly television lineup, their People magazines, their stinking rock music, their mindless movies and books, their tastes that shift with every fashion, and all the rest of it.

    I'm not very good at the art of worldly wisdom.


    Keep one thing in mind. It is a very rare occurance to convert people caught up in the world to Catholicism through reason.   We may think that the things we discuss here are important in this regard - but in my opinion - most of the time when people try to reason with a person caught up in the worldy pursuits - you may as well go bang your head against the wall because they will simply not listen.  So whats the answer.

    Study the lives of the Saints. Most of the Saints who were successful in Converting large numbers of people did three basic things.

    1) They prayed and offered the Holy Mass for Conversion - ALOT!

    2) They offered Penetential Sufferings to GOD - wore uncomfortable clothing - offered sickness and suffering , mortification - slept on stone floors - St Patrick used to wade chest deep into ice cold streams and then pray for hours - etc etc etc. You get the picture.

    3 ) They always gave good example. They never hid in their devotion to Almighty GOD. Thus those around them were inspired by their example.

    When the Cure of Ars was sent to Ars intially - it was a very worldy little town with bars and dance halls and a run down Church. But the Cure of Ars did not despair he set about showing everyone what it was to be Holy. And by those three things above - he not only Converted Ars entirely -but people would travel from miles around just to have the Cure hear their confession - he would spend entire days hearing confessions.

    GOD's grace is what opens the heart mind and soul of the sinner. Not our efforts. We must petition GOD for that grace - then and only then will our words have meaning - when our friends and families not only see our good example - but when they realize the futility of following the cares and pursuits of the World which can never satisfy a sinner with the peace that only comes from conforming ones will to the will of GOD.

    So dont give up and dont consider anyone your enemy - they just are in a different place and need the grace of GOD lest they be lost..........

    Pax

    Änσnymσus

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    My family is my enemy
    « Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 05:28:33 PM »
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  • OP here. What about this:

    "Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God."

    -James 4:4

    God's enemies must be my enemies. My family members are enemies of God. Therefore they're my enemies.

    Also this:

    "Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation. [52] For there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided: three against two, and two against three. [53] The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against his father, the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother, the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

    -Luke 12:51-53

    But then we have this:

    "But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you."

    -Matthew 5:44

    Who can explain it all?