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Author Topic: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor  (Read 3200 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
« on: January 17, 2024, 10:53:31 AM »
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  • I am scheduled for my fourth C-Section in April. We live in a very rural area. Our hospital covers little towns within a 2 hour radius and specialists come in once a month for higher risk patients. My doctor isn’t comfortable doing a 4th C-Section, so she assigned me to the specialist that comes in. I had my first appointment with him a couple days ago, and I feel like such an idiot for not anticipating pressure and scare tactics. 

    The first question he asked me was is during the surgery if I wanted to just go ahead and get my tubes tied. I said no. He proceeded to tell me all of the risks of not doing so. Of course I want to know ALL of the risks of my situation, but what bothers me is how he pressured me to sign a docuмent giving him the option to do the tubal ligation in an emergency if there was something terribly wrong with my uterus and a decision had to be made on the spot. He assured me over and over again that if there was no need then the paper would mean nothing, he’d just tear it up. 

    He told me this 4 or 5 times while stating at the same time that he doesn’t care wether I get my tubes tied or not, but he needed that paper signed so that if it was necessary in the moment, he could do the procedure. 

    I’m not signing those papers. I am not aware of ANY need to sterilize myself. Am I mistaken? I understand that it is medically necessary to remove a woman’s uterus to alleviate certain medical conditions, but that is not the same thing as having your tubes tied to prevent pregnancy. 

    I’ve healed flawlessly from my past 3 csections. You can hardly see the scar and there is hardly any scar tissue. I’ve never had placenta previa or acretta or any sort of problem that would indicate I should not have any future surgeries. 

    My husband is floored at the situation, understandably. I won’t be going to any more appointments alone. His fear is that the doctor will do it anyway or that he will not be truthful about the condition of my uterus and try to scare me into having my uterus removed or something. He fears that I will be manipulated if for some reason I am not all there due to anesthesia or wracked with pain or stress in the moment. He doesn’t trust this doctor AT ALL. I think his concerns are valid. 

    How easy it is to say just switch doctors. We are rural, and if I wanted to look at different doctors, we are looking at a distance of 4-5 hours. 

    Any advice? Words of wisdom? Consolations? I guess we are just feeling a little shook up. 


    Not only that, but I have such anxiety with male doctors. They intimidate me, and while I know that it is morally permissible to have male doctors, I get so bothered about the whole modesty issue. I wasn’t expecting to be assigned to a male doctor who happens to be (or so they say) is the only one available. He’s really tall, assertive, and pushy. I will have my husband with me at all future interactions with him but I’m still uncomfortable with everything. 

    Thanks for listening! 

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #1 on: January 17, 2024, 11:03:44 AM »
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  • Two of my ob's were women and they were monsters.  No empathy and they mocked me. The male was so much better. I despise female doctors.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #2 on: January 17, 2024, 11:05:57 AM »
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  • Two of my ob's were women and they were monsters.  No empathy and they mocked me. The male was so much better. I despise female doctors.
    OP here. My experience has been the exact opposite. Maybe it’s just the luck of the draw. All of my female doctors have been amazing, empathetic and caring. 

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #3 on: January 17, 2024, 11:07:58 AM »
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  • Get a midwife? and try for a VBAC?

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #4 on: January 17, 2024, 11:11:39 AM »
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  • Get a midwife? and try for a VBAC?
    Midwives don’t do C-sections to my knowledge, and there is no doctor within 5 hours of me that would do a vbac after 3 sections. Even in metro areas, finding a doctor that would do that is rare. 


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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #5 on: January 17, 2024, 11:18:26 AM »
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  • Midwives don’t do C-sections to my knowledge, and there is no doctor within 5 hours of me that would do a vbac after 3 sections. Even in metro areas, finding a doctor that would do that is rare.
    What about an independent midwife who would be willing to do a VBAC? 

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #6 on: January 17, 2024, 11:34:26 AM »
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  • Male or female, this doctor sounds like he's operating (no pun intended) from a position of bad faith and for that reason alone is untrustworthy, even if he's supposedly the specialist they're telling you is better for you than your regular doctor. 

    Sounds anti-natalist too. There are no baseline risks to not getting your tubes tied after a fourth pregnancy. Sounds like it's less about your own specific risks as you explained and more an automatic actuarial designation for no reason other than it's a fourth c-section and the hospital's in CYA mode. 

    For Catholics (for anyone, for that matter), the only justifiable reason to remove the uterus is if there's life-threatening hemorrhaging or cancer. Similarly, the only reason for tubal ligation would be as a secondary effect of emergency intervention in an ectopic pregnancy.

    Was one of the docuмents you were given to sign a Health Care Proxy designating your husband as the only person to make decisions for you if necessary? If not (or if it was, but underemphasized or not explained adequately), then that's a huge red flag. Given the bind you're in as to limited options, maybe the answer is with your husband's support and intervention and lots of prayer between now and April. Mr. Specialist sounds like he's not used to hearing a steadfast and principled "no" from anyone. Maybe this will be the case that teaches him.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #7 on: January 17, 2024, 12:12:06 PM »
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  • What about an independent midwife who would be willing to do a VBAC?
    Midwives are really out of the question in my situation because of my history of hypertension in late pregnancy. They won’t take me. Even if I did miraculously find one, my husband would say no. He is done with v-bacs. 

    I started off with a midwife with my first, but had a doctor picked out just in case. When my blood pressure went too high, I had to go to the hospital. I labored for over 40 hours and it ended up in an emergency C-section after the babies heart rate dropped dangerously low and would not recover between contractions. I had done my research on supportive doctors and I had a solid level of trust with this doctor. She knew I absolutely did not want a C-section and my resolve not to have one was well known. After the baby’s heart rate did not recover and continued to drop, the look in her eyes when she asked me to please consent to a C-section was one of almost desperation and fear. She was a mother of 4 herself, and it was a mother to mother moment. I know I made the right decision there. 

    On my second pregnancy I went past 40 weeks so they induced me. Failure to progress is what they told me. I was scared and decided to follow the advice of my doctor. To this day I wonder if it was the right decision. I tend to think it wasn’t.  If I hadn’t had a previous C-section, I would have told her to leave me alone until 43 weeks. 
    The third was a planned V-bac. I labored for 30 hours, failed to progress only to find out that the cord was wrapped around her neck. If I went much longer, she would have died. 

    This is a very difficult subject for me. Somehow I feel like less of a mother for not being able to birth naturally EVER. Without medical intervention I don’t think I would have had live babies, and with the first I probably would have died. There is a lot of pressure and it’s all on me to do all of my own research, to find the best doctors, to make wise and informed decisions. Sure, husband is supportive but really and truly, the burden falls on me. I’ve tried the best I can. And here I am now, still trying the best I can, but still feel so much guilt. Bah! 


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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #8 on: January 17, 2024, 12:19:01 PM »
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  • Male or female, this doctor sounds like he's operating (no pun intended) from a position of bad faith and for that reason alone is untrustworthy, even if he's supposedly the specialist they're telling you is better for you than your regular doctor.

    Sounds anti-natalist too. There are no baseline risks to not getting your tubes tied after a fourth pregnancy. Sounds like it's less about your own specific risks as you explained and more an automatic actuarial designation for no reason other than it's a fourth c-section and the hospital's in CYA mode.

    For Catholics (for anyone, for that matter), the only justifiable reason to remove the uterus is if there's life-threatening hemorrhaging or cancer. Similarly, the only reason for tubal ligation would be as a secondary effect of emergency intervention in an ectopic pregnancy.

    Was one of the docuмents you were given to sign a Health Care Proxy designating your husband as the only person to make decisions for you if necessary? If not (or if it was, but underemphasized or not explained adequately), then that's a huge red flag. Given the bind you're in as to limited options, maybe the answer is with your husband's support and intervention and lots of prayer between now and April. Mr. Specialist sounds like he's not used to hearing a steadfast and principled "no" from anyone. Maybe this will be the case that teaches him.
    I don’t believe I’ve signed anything about my husband being the only one to make the decisions. The specialist, because I’m on Medicaid, said that I have to have the paper signed for the tubal 30 days before delivery or he can’t do it, so that’s why that paperwork is being filled out so soon. 

    I have an appointment with my regular doctor and I will be talking to her about it. She is actually a friend of mine and has 5 kids, which is a comfort. She will be present at the surgery as far as I know. But I will definately talk to her about the docuмent you are taking about and make sure that it is made clear. Thankyou! 

    Thankyou for the reminder to pray. My husband reminds me of this as well. It is too easy to get wrapped up in anxieties. 


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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #9 on: January 17, 2024, 12:41:56 PM »
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  • Try contacting Dr. Lantier (SSPX parishioner) and ask if he has any recommendations for the specialist that you need. Explain that you are a Catholic and the situation you are in. NOTE: you will most likely have to travel to wherever the specialist is, so you have to weigh the pros and cons of using the local specialist you have or travel.

    Steven Lantier, M.D. - Surgery Center of Oklahoma (surgerycenterok.com)

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #10 on: January 17, 2024, 01:01:57 PM »
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  • I'd want a trustworthy doctor or other qualified individual present to witness and make decisions, so the doc doesn't try to sterilize you.

    I understand the need to plan ahead for this C-section, but are you still going to try a natural birth this time if there's no obvious complications preventing its success?


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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #11 on: January 17, 2024, 01:06:45 PM »
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  • Midwives are really out of the question in my situation because of my history of hypertension in late pregnancy. They won’t take me. Even if I did miraculously find one, my husband would say no. He is done with v-bacs.

    I started off with a midwife with my first, but had a doctor picked out just in case. When my blood pressure went too high, I had to go to the hospital. I labored for over 40 hours and it ended up in an emergency C-section after the babies heart rate dropped dangerously low and would not recover between contractions. I had done my research on supportive doctors and I had a solid level of trust with this doctor. She knew I absolutely did not want a C-section and my resolve not to have one was well known. After the baby’s heart rate did not recover and continued to drop, the look in her eyes when she asked me to please consent to a C-section was one of almost desperation and fear. She was a mother of 4 herself, and it was a mother to mother moment. I know I made the right decision there.

    On my second pregnancy I went past 40 weeks so they induced me. Failure to progress is what they told me. I was scared and decided to follow the advice of my doctor. To this day I wonder if it was the right decision. I tend to think it wasn’t.  If I hadn’t had a previous C-section, I would have told her to leave me alone until 43 weeks.
    The third was a planned V-bac. I labored for 30 hours, failed to progress only to find out that the cord was wrapped around her neck. If I went much longer, she would have died.

    This is a very difficult subject for me. Somehow I feel like less of a mother for not being able to birth naturally EVER. Without medical intervention I don’t think I would have had live babies, and with the first I probably would have died. There is a lot of pressure and it’s all on me to do all of my own research, to find the best doctors, to make wise and informed decisions. Sure, husband is supportive but really and truly, the burden falls on me. I’ve tried the best I can. And here I am now, still trying the best I can, but still feel so much guilt. Bah!

    My wife can relate to many elements of your story -- high blood pressure towards end of pregnancy, going well past 40 weeks, induction, laboring a long time and ending up in C-section, having to do lots of research/finding doctors/make informed decisions.

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #12 on: January 17, 2024, 01:08:19 PM »
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  • I'd want a trustworthy doctor or other qualified individual present to witness and make decisions, so the doc doesn't try to sterilize you.

    I understand the need to plan ahead for this C-section, but are you still going to try a natural birth this time if there's no obvious complications preventing its success?
    Because of other complications, a natural birth is no longer an option. 

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #13 on: January 17, 2024, 01:19:33 PM »
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  • I don’t believe I’ve signed anything about my husband being the only one to make the decisions. The specialist, because I’m on Medicaid, said that I have to have the paper signed for the tubal 30 days before delivery or he can’t do it, so that’s why that paperwork is being filled out so soon.

    I have an appointment with my regular doctor and I will be talking to her about it. She is actually a friend of mine and has 5 kids, which is a comfort. She will be present at the surgery as far as I know. But I will definately talk to her about the docuмent you are taking about and make sure that it is made clear. Thankyou!

    Thankyou for the reminder to pray. My husband reminds me of this as well. It is too easy to get wrapped up in anxieties.

    The 30-day thing is only about them getting Medicaid pre-authorization to reimburse costs as a contingency. It's not that "he can't do it", meaning the delivery itself, if you don't sign the tubal release. So if you say flat out no to tubal ligation, then there's no need to get pre-authorization for that particular cost. Each line-item procedure gets two separate signatures from you, one for the procedure itself and one for permission to bill Medicaid. For that reason, it would help to have your husband sitting next to you so that Specialist Dude doesn't try to rush you through the signoffs.

    The tubal part is completely optional and has no bearing on delivery except that it's convenient for them to do it in that moment while they have the woman on the operating table. (This was a dirty secret for many years in the past when doctors would insist on c-sections for poor women only to sneak in and do the tubals as population control.) More importantly, from a Catholic perspective, it's a form of purposeful contraception. (Pre-authorization for a hysterectomy would be different if you'd had a serious history of, say, placental malformation, though that could be a matter of first sorting it through with a priest.)

    Good that your regular doctor is there for you, both medically and as a mom herself! 
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

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    Re: Multiple C-Sections, Pressure From Doctor
    « Reply #14 on: January 17, 2024, 01:24:24 PM »
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  • Midwives are really out of the question in my situation because of my history of hypertension in late pregnancy. They won’t take me. Even if I did miraculously find one, my husband would say no. He is done with v-bacs.

    Here's an article that speaks about that, the title of which is The Caesarean Cross. (Kennedy Hall and Crisis Magazine, yeah, yeah, I know. Go on the substance of the situation instead of the author and venue.) The article was written in June 2022 when she was scheduled for her 5th, and she just had her 6th a few weeks ago.